Suspension Mods - On the cheap :)
#32
I'm happy to report I have the 1mm hole drilled in my cartridges (as recommended by Roger).
The local shop didn't have a 1mm bit, but they had a #61 bit, which was .0390 instead of .0394... Close enough
My USA made Milwaukee drills with Jacobs chucks wouldn't grip the tiny bit, nor would my Dremel... I had to borrow a friends Costco Kawasaki cordless drill to grip the bit LOL...
Also received my Silkolene PRO RSF 7.5wt fluid in the mail. It appears Silkolene discontinued the red label "Pro" RSF and is now only selling the blue label RSF... I managed to find a bottle of red label Pro RSF...
After drilling the hole i smoothed it off (top and bottom) with 320 grit sandpaper.
More to come...
James
The local shop didn't have a 1mm bit, but they had a #61 bit, which was .0390 instead of .0394... Close enough
My USA made Milwaukee drills with Jacobs chucks wouldn't grip the tiny bit, nor would my Dremel... I had to borrow a friends Costco Kawasaki cordless drill to grip the bit LOL...
Also received my Silkolene PRO RSF 7.5wt fluid in the mail. It appears Silkolene discontinued the red label "Pro" RSF and is now only selling the blue label RSF... I managed to find a bottle of red label Pro RSF...
After drilling the hole i smoothed it off (top and bottom) with 320 grit sandpaper.
More to come...
James
#33
#40
READ CAPS
Let me start by saying i love this forum. Everyone here has been so helpful, and the knowledge of the owners here is truly amazing.
Rider info:
Age: 48 yrs old
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 155 not including gear
170 with gear
Type of riding: Fast street rider
GIVING VITAL STATISTICS FOR POSTERITY
I'm at a point where i don't have the money for the suspension upgrades i want to do, like my dream list... But i can probably do a few things in the late winter, after February, so i'm forming some ideas, and looking for thoughts from you guys...
PREFACE WHAT YOUR MODIFYING; I.E., OEM
HOW MANY ON VTR, FORKS, STEERING BEARINGS, WHEELS, ETC
AS OTHERS STATED, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT IF NEVER CRASHED
Swingarm Angle
Rake and Trail (and wheel alignment)
Goal
My goal is to do a few simple "mods" to the stock suspension that are super cheap, but net some gains in performance. I'm not really the kind of guy who throws a lot of money at brand names and "recipes". Not that anything is wrong with that, I just like to gather knowledge and do the work myself. I definitely have more time available than money.
James
Rider info:
Age: 48 yrs old
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 155 not including gear
170 with gear
Type of riding: Fast street rider
GIVING VITAL STATISTICS FOR POSTERITY
I'm at a point where i don't have the money for the suspension upgrades i want to do, like my dream list... But i can probably do a few things in the late winter, after February, so i'm forming some ideas, and looking for thoughts from you guys...
PREFACE WHAT YOUR MODIFYING; I.E., OEM
HOW MANY ON VTR, FORKS, STEERING BEARINGS, WHEELS, ETC
AS OTHERS STATED, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT IF NEVER CRASHED
Swingarm Angle
Rake and Trail (and wheel alignment)
Goal
My goal is to do a few simple "mods" to the stock suspension that are super cheap, but net some gains in performance. I'm not really the kind of guy who throws a lot of money at brand names and "recipes". Not that anything is wrong with that, I just like to gather knowledge and do the work myself. I definitely have more time available than money.
James
Lol... Good stuff!
Yeah i've had Ohlins before, along with Custom Axis (same as Penske, but for quads), and i fully understand money buys suspension happiness... Unfortunately i no longer have an Ohlins/Axis budget
KIDS GOING TO / IN COLLEGE? LOL
I'll run some numbers on those VFR springs, thanks for those numbers.
I already have a 6mm shim between the frame and top of the rear shock, and rear shock is at its lightest preload setting.
Front forks are showing 6mm above the clip-ons, with unknown oil weight (until now i haven't messed with them, as they don't leak, and i was focusing on other things).
IS THAT 6MM BELOW SNAP-CLIP AND OEM CLIP-ONS ARE WHAT HEIGHT (25MM)?
Current swingarm angle is 10 degrees and i just tried bunping rear preload by two notches and found the angle didn't change (not on the instrument i was using anyway).
I may add more ride height to the rear just in the name of looking for a 12.5 degree swingarm angle... More on that later.
IS THIS STATUS B4 MODS?
Bike rides well, but i feel the turning characteristics could be better. Turn in feels fine. Not quick, but fine. Mid corner feels ok. Corner exit i run wide, which is why i'm first examining swingarm angle/anti squat. If i can achieve a couple more degrees of swingarm angle, then i will begin to understand how i like that number and what it does for turning on my particular bike...
James
Yeah i've had Ohlins before, along with Custom Axis (same as Penske, but for quads), and i fully understand money buys suspension happiness... Unfortunately i no longer have an Ohlins/Axis budget
KIDS GOING TO / IN COLLEGE? LOL
I'll run some numbers on those VFR springs, thanks for those numbers.
I already have a 6mm shim between the frame and top of the rear shock, and rear shock is at its lightest preload setting.
Front forks are showing 6mm above the clip-ons, with unknown oil weight (until now i haven't messed with them, as they don't leak, and i was focusing on other things).
IS THAT 6MM BELOW SNAP-CLIP AND OEM CLIP-ONS ARE WHAT HEIGHT (25MM)?
Current swingarm angle is 10 degrees and i just tried bunping rear preload by two notches and found the angle didn't change (not on the instrument i was using anyway).
I may add more ride height to the rear just in the name of looking for a 12.5 degree swingarm angle... More on that later.
IS THIS STATUS B4 MODS?
Bike rides well, but i feel the turning characteristics could be better. Turn in feels fine. Not quick, but fine. Mid corner feels ok. Corner exit i run wide, which is why i'm first examining swingarm angle/anti squat. If i can achieve a couple more degrees of swingarm angle, then i will begin to understand how i like that number and what it does for turning on my particular bike...
James
+1
If you increase the spring preload at the shock, the ride height/swingarm angle should increase as the shock will sit higher in its stroke for any given load. If you were measuring this with the bike unladen on a stand you won't measure any change because the shock is already topped out.
If the preload is already appropriate for your weight, then you could look to adding more shim height to lengthen the shock, but that may start to get the lower chain run a bit close to the exhaust.
REAR RIDE HEIGHT EFFECTS TILT ANGLE ON SIDE STAND TOO
One other thing that may be affecting cornering feel is the tyre profile. Are they a bit worn, pressures OK etc?
If it was me, I'd be flushing and refilling the forks with some fresh oil before going too much further. No need to dismantle the seals to do this.
If you increase the spring preload at the shock, the ride height/swingarm angle should increase as the shock will sit higher in its stroke for any given load. If you were measuring this with the bike unladen on a stand you won't measure any change because the shock is already topped out.
If the preload is already appropriate for your weight, then you could look to adding more shim height to lengthen the shock, but that may start to get the lower chain run a bit close to the exhaust.
REAR RIDE HEIGHT EFFECTS TILT ANGLE ON SIDE STAND TOO
One other thing that may be affecting cornering feel is the tyre profile. Are they a bit worn, pressures OK etc?
If it was me, I'd be flushing and refilling the forks with some fresh oil before going too much further. No need to dismantle the seals to do this.
Ok... it's been almost 24 hours, so time for an update
In the past 18 or so hours I've found some great information...
GOOD TO DOCUMENT BUT A VTR WEIGHTS 470# FULL OF FLUIDS
Race Tech forkspring rate recommendations:
Stock VTR: .585
Race tech recommends.822kg/mm FRSP S3534 series
Race Tech SpringRate Calculator settings I inputted:
-Street
-lbs
-155 my weight
-415 bike weight(semi wet) (Original Race Tech weight of bike was 435, I subtracted 20 lbs because of slips-ons, PAIR removal, lightened flywheel, stick coils, no toolkit, Sargent seat (with less foam))
Information from Manufacturers
Race Tech recommends .86
Ohlins only has an.86 spring available and doesn't have any reference as to preferred spring ratefor my weight because bike is pre 2005
Traxxion recommends(Hyperco springs) .95
GMD Computrackrecommends (K-Tech springs) .95
OEM Fork SpringRates (in kg/mm) of bikes that use FRSP S35 series springs:
Honda Superhawk OEM.585
95-99 Duc Monster900 .686
98-01 Honda Vfr800.74
04-05 Honda Hornetcb600f .75
95 Yamaha yzf600r.77
96 Yamaha yzf600r.80
01-05 Yamaha fz1 .80
99-07 Yamaha yzf600r.81
97-98 Yamaha yzf600r.81
00-01 Duc 996 sps.95
Today I ordered 1996 YamahaYZF600R fork springs (.77) for $15 shipped on Ebay!
CHEAP
Here are current percentages of what Race Tech recommends vs what I am going to have:
Front
.822 recommended
.77 have
93% of what RaceTech recommends I have
Rear
17.5 recommended
16.4 have
93% of what RaceTech recommends I have
YOU LIKE CRUNCHING NUMBERS BUT WHAT IS RECOMMENDED IS JUST AS YOU KNOW A STARTING POINT
So, this fork spring install of .77 will balance the front and rear to exactly 93% of what Race Tech recommends. No it's not exactly what they recommend, but it is far more balanced than what I have now, for very little money.
Furthermore, right now, with full gear on, I have exactly 23mm of sag in the rear. That is with the front OEM springs, the really soft ones. I'm planning to re-measure the sag after installing the stiffer fork springs... I'm betting it will be different
So, that being said, the stock rear spring, even though it is only 93% the value of what Race Tech recommends, seems appropriate for my weight. With this logic applied to the front forks, I should be fine with the 95 YZF600R fork springs I just picked up, as they are 93% of the value Race Tech recommends, just like the rear shock in stock form...
This winter I'll be taking the forks apart, changing out the fork oil, facing the stock valve bodies, and probably re-shimming the valve stack... Shouldn't cost too much... In fact I'm thinking I'll be into this for the $15 fork springs, cost of fork oil, and cost of a few shims... I may as well do the seals while I'm in there....
Anyway, feel free to use the information above to find some springs from another bike that work for your weight. I'm certain there are quite a few 996 SPS riders on the Ducati forums with stock springs laying around, if someone needs a .95 spring
1 INCH PVC IS GOOD IF STEEL WASHERS ISED TOP & BOTTOM
James
In the past 18 or so hours I've found some great information...
GOOD TO DOCUMENT BUT A VTR WEIGHTS 470# FULL OF FLUIDS
Race Tech forkspring rate recommendations:
Stock VTR: .585
Race tech recommends.822kg/mm FRSP S3534 series
Race Tech SpringRate Calculator settings I inputted:
-Street
-lbs
-155 my weight
-415 bike weight(semi wet) (Original Race Tech weight of bike was 435, I subtracted 20 lbs because of slips-ons, PAIR removal, lightened flywheel, stick coils, no toolkit, Sargent seat (with less foam))
Information from Manufacturers
Race Tech recommends .86
Ohlins only has an.86 spring available and doesn't have any reference as to preferred spring ratefor my weight because bike is pre 2005
Traxxion recommends(Hyperco springs) .95
GMD Computrackrecommends (K-Tech springs) .95
OEM Fork SpringRates (in kg/mm) of bikes that use FRSP S35 series springs:
Honda Superhawk OEM.585
95-99 Duc Monster900 .686
98-01 Honda Vfr800.74
04-05 Honda Hornetcb600f .75
95 Yamaha yzf600r.77
96 Yamaha yzf600r.80
01-05 Yamaha fz1 .80
99-07 Yamaha yzf600r.81
97-98 Yamaha yzf600r.81
00-01 Duc 996 sps.95
Today I ordered 1996 YamahaYZF600R fork springs (.77) for $15 shipped on Ebay!
CHEAP
Here are current percentages of what Race Tech recommends vs what I am going to have:
Front
.822 recommended
.77 have
93% of what RaceTech recommends I have
Rear
17.5 recommended
16.4 have
93% of what RaceTech recommends I have
YOU LIKE CRUNCHING NUMBERS BUT WHAT IS RECOMMENDED IS JUST AS YOU KNOW A STARTING POINT
So, this fork spring install of .77 will balance the front and rear to exactly 93% of what Race Tech recommends. No it's not exactly what they recommend, but it is far more balanced than what I have now, for very little money.
Furthermore, right now, with full gear on, I have exactly 23mm of sag in the rear. That is with the front OEM springs, the really soft ones. I'm planning to re-measure the sag after installing the stiffer fork springs... I'm betting it will be different
So, that being said, the stock rear spring, even though it is only 93% the value of what Race Tech recommends, seems appropriate for my weight. With this logic applied to the front forks, I should be fine with the 95 YZF600R fork springs I just picked up, as they are 93% of the value Race Tech recommends, just like the rear shock in stock form...
This winter I'll be taking the forks apart, changing out the fork oil, facing the stock valve bodies, and probably re-shimming the valve stack... Shouldn't cost too much... In fact I'm thinking I'll be into this for the $15 fork springs, cost of fork oil, and cost of a few shims... I may as well do the seals while I'm in there....
Anyway, feel free to use the information above to find some springs from another bike that work for your weight. I'm certain there are quite a few 996 SPS riders on the Ducati forums with stock springs laying around, if someone needs a .95 spring
1 INCH PVC IS GOOD IF STEEL WASHERS ISED TOP & BOTTOM
James
BALANCE IS THE KEY BETWEEN SUSPENSION, BRAKES AND RIDING STYLE
Last edited by skokievtr; 01-16-2016 at 02:34 PM.
#41
Sorry for the late response. I used the stock GSX-R triple clamps, which have an off-set of 30mm. However, the top triple has an offset mount for the ignition which doesn't look good, so I am looking at the 954 top clamp to replace it.
#43
I ended up going with Roger's fork modifications and left the shim stack alone. I didn't end up using different valving from stock. I did however rebuild forks with fresh 7.5 WT fork oil, new seals, and the straight rate Springs I mentioned earlier. Feels very solid, very planted now, Although I haven't had a chance to really rip on it yet this year. Hopefully in the next month I will have an update as to how it feels in hard corners.
For my limited riding this set up will probably be perfect, and I probably won't even upgrade the rear shock, as it is hard for me to justify spending that much money on a rear shock when I ride so little anymore.
James
For my limited riding this set up will probably be perfect, and I probably won't even upgrade the rear shock, as it is hard for me to justify spending that much money on a rear shock when I ride so little anymore.
James
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