Hawkagain

I now have 3 rides in the twisties and like many on the list I find the suspension is impossible. Different from most it seems very stiff and non-compliant. I am about 6' and 170lbs and it feels real stiff. Sag is about 20mm and about 25mm on the rear. The bike appears real stock and I was told it was but It sounds like the front springs must have been changed? The rear is tossing me off the seat in medium size bumps even on the freeway. Typical riding for me would be moderate street. Should I just buy 0.85kg/mm front springs, ride those and then see how the rear feels? What should the adjustment range on the rebound be? I see 7 turns on the rear and ~1/4 turn on the front. There are different numbers on this list & other internet sources.

Thanks,

Hawkagain

nuhawk

The stock suspension is like riding a brick unless you're 250lbs. It sucks and is dangerous for riders in the 170 bracket. Hawkrider rebuilt my fronts and check Jamie's work on the rear shock. You get it set up right and it's a whole new motorcycle.

Tweety

The font forks are dimensioned for a 100 pound rider, the shock in the back for 260 pounds of rider plus passenger... Stick a 170 pound person in the middle and what you get is a spongy front and harsh twitchy rear... Not much fun...

If both ends match, and are set up for your weight, it becomes a whole new level of fun... In your case, the rear shock should probably be step one... A heavier rider would probably be better of starting with shocks...

Oh, and since you are 170 pounds why choose .85Kg springs? Your weight equates to 77Kg meaning unless you are going racing at higher levels, you'd probably be better off with .80Kg springs for street use at moderate levels...

comedo

Hawkrider who is a moderator of this forum has a website www.superhawk996.com which has advice on suspension setup and troubleshooting. The usual starting point is to set sag correctly. Thirty millimetres at the front is about right for the street.

Hawkagain

I wasn't totally clear. I have ~15mm sag in the front with the preload backed all the way out. I guess it is pretty clear that the PO changed the front springs. I will start there.

Thanks,

Steve

trinc

correct springs will make a world of difference. if it was revalved you may need that adjusted also.

tim

shayne

Do not discount the valving as well. The standard valving is too restrictive, and cannot flow enough oil for a sharp bump, like a driveway for example. When you hit a bump like this it feels like the suspension is way too stiff.

The reality is, in standard spec the springs are too soft form most men, not too stiff. The combination of the springs being too low in the stroke for a heavier rider, and the poor valving makes the bike feel stiff. Springs to suit your weight and good valving will transform the bike.

JamieDaugherty

That is very true. Many riders just change the springs and leave it at that. Springs really just support the weight, the performance comes from the damping (valving). When I setup forks for riders I suggest upgrades in this order:

- Fork springs
- Shock spring
- Fork valving
- Shock valving

Of course, it's more efficient to do everything in the forks at once, similarly for the shock. Another thing to watch out for are the people who say that you should not do one end without the other. While, of course, you will not get the most benefit from doing just one, it will still be an improvement.

Try to put a plan together for your upgrades and start working towards it. Here are some budgetary prices for what I charge:

Fork springs - $85
Fork valving - $195
Shock spring - $85
Shock valving - $185*

* You'd be amazed at how well you can make the stcok rear shock work!

2wheeler

Jamie is right on with the suspension. He did the forks for me with Race Tech parts and I bought his upgrade/mod for an F4i rear shock (Jamie is highly recommended if you're looking for good service at a reasonable price). I can say from personal experience on the track that the SH is dangerous stock if ridden too hard (stock front end washes out rather easily with a lot of trail braking and the rear hardly worked for me). It's worth noting that I'm only 150 lbs but the Race Tech front end and Jamie's modified F4i rear shock makes the SH really fun and compliant. Upgrading the suspension is a must if you want suspension that is more predictable and much safer too (in my humble opinion).

D VTR RIDER

Hawkagain - Take Jamie's advice and change the front springs. The bike is seriously under-sprung and dangerous if you hit a pothole. They bottom out very easily and will kick you off if not careful. This is the number 1 mod to do and while you are at it change the compression valve. I went with Race Tech but I'm sure there are others.
You mention moderate street riding in which case a spring upgrade and possibly new valving will more than suffice. If however you plan on doing track days and are reasonably fast, you should oped for stiffer compression valving or take the time to change the valving before track days. On the track, my Firestorm will dive in tight corners and grind pegs even with the the combination of a 5mm rear spacer and the rear ride height on the Ohlins increased. Of course talk of front end swaps on other threads makes me hot and horny to try it!
I can't say enough about the Ohlins. It sock's up both high speed and slow speed bumps on the worst of roads.
One more recommendation. Even though I do all my wrenching, I did spend $ 45.00 at the track to have a professional suspension guru adjust the rear compression and rebound and the front's rebound dampening; money well spent.
Cheers,

Just_Nick

Is there a recommended rear shock that works with the SH? I weigh about 150 pounds, and the rear end sucks. I'd love a fully adjustable stock shock from a different bike.

JamieDaugherty

Nothing fits directly. The CBRF4 conversions that I've been doing are a pretty decent option. Set one of those up with properly matched spring and RaceTech valving and I'd put it up against any aftermarket shock. Yeah, they work that good.

Just_Nick

What's involved with the F4i conversion?

2wheeler

Buy a used F4 shock on ebay, ship it to Jamie, and he'll ship it back revalved, resprung, and modified to fit the SH (he adds a custom made extension to the shock).

Stevebis1

I'm 6' 230lbs. With the shock in its standard preload the sag is too much and the ride wallows. I moved preload up two notches and the sag is good and on smooth roads the ride seems fine - but medium bumps toss me. Is a Jamie conversion to a F4I shock going to fix this and work well on the street? I don't ride on the track, but I certainly would like shock that can absorb a bumb but not wallow

lazn

Well for our bikes suspension, the forks are the first thing to take care of. After that, Jamie's F4i swap is the best bang for the buck.. From what I have read on this forum, it is 90% of a $1500 Ohlins for 1/3rd the price. (doubt most mortals could tell the difference between a properly setup DM motorsports shock and a Ohlins)

When $$ isn't quite so tight, I am planning to send one off to Jamie myself.

JamieDaugherty

Issues like this are pretty typical with the stock shock. Getting a proper spring rate is key, but the damping is where the real performance comes from.

Another option for you guys to consider is a spring/valve upgrade to the stock VTR shock. That works really well actually and is something that is often overlooked.

nath981

I've been riding Jamie's modified F4I shock for a month+ now and it's an awesome upgrade. Think about this: you're 230lbs and your *** is directly over the shock absorber. The shock would be my first consideration to balance the bike's front/rear geometry given your weight.
JD will fit a spring appropriate for your weight and then if you want to haul someone, you can crank it up a couple notches and you're good to go. If you only ride solo, you'll have a rear suspension that is going to balance your bike out making your ride safer, more comfortable, better handling and ergo, more enjoyable. If you can't afford it, get JD to mod your OEM shock.

uchi

so it seems like the rear shock is perfect for me. until i can put some scratch together for the front would i benefit from cranking the screws on top of the shocks as high as theyll go?

Just_Nick

Crank the preload, not the rebound, all the way down. Cranking the screw, aka the rebound, all the way down will only give you a weird feeling. Look up a tutorial on setting rebound, and try adjusting it to that.