Modifications - Performance Discuss aftermarket and DIY performance modifications

My new SV650 makes VTR feel porky

Old 03-08-2010, 09:13 PM
  #1  
Senior Member
MotoGP
Thread Starter
 
smokinjoe73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,923
smokinjoe73 is on a distinguished road
My new SV650 makes VTR feel porky

So I am riding the SV that I bought wrecked & fixed to race just to shake it down. It really feels like a GP bike in comparison. Tiny & agile. The VTR feels like an ST (nothing against them). But I hope my next mods of 1000RR front end penske shock can tweak the geometry back to the sportier side of sport touring. I love the VTR but it really feels sluggish when I jump back on it.
smokinjoe73 is offline  
Old 03-08-2010, 09:23 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
RCVTR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
Posts: 1,689
RCVTR is an unknown quantity at this point
I rode a stock VTR after putting an RC51 front end, a Fox rear shock and raising the rear on mine.

Hated it.
RCVTR is offline  
Old 03-08-2010, 09:36 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 3,447
VTRsurfer is on a distinguished road
My wife got an '07 SV650S almost 2 1/2 years ago. I put on a Yosh slip-on / street baffle removed, cowl cover, LP dark smoke screen, Bridgestone BT016's and removed the passenger pegs and grab rail. It definitely feels lighter than my bike (about 50 pounds) and revs quickly, and it just about falls into corners, but when I get back on my VTR the low end torque wins me back. But I don't ride on the track, just spirited canyon runs.

I would like to have that flawless EFI system though.

What did you do to the suspension on the SV?

Last edited by VTRsurfer; 03-08-2010 at 09:42 PM.
VTRsurfer is offline  
Old 03-09-2010, 06:50 AM
  #4  
Senior Member
Superstock
 
NCDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 344
NCDave is on a distinguished road
sluggish to me says tuning may not be right. I had a Ninja 650R which is very similar to the SV. In terms of ride, you are dead on. my 650 was light and flickable compared to the VTR. However, the VTR felt like riding a bull compared to the 650. Power wasn't a comparison. Same is true with my TT600.
NCDave is offline  
Old 03-09-2010, 07:40 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
killer5280's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,728
killer5280 is on a distinguished road
A VTR (and many other sportbikes) is porky compared to an SV650. I don't think there's any getting around that regardless of geometry or which front end you have on it.
killer5280 is offline  
Old 03-09-2010, 07:54 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
MotoGP
Thread Starter
 
smokinjoe73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,923
smokinjoe73 is on a distinguished road
Yeah, I have been racing production twins at Loudon for 11 yrs & its always amazing being on that tight technical track with a small, light twin. I routinely have GiXer1000s & rc51 guys come in & ask me what I did to the bike. The tight track really favors small light bikes that can transition well. I am just not used to it on the street.
smokinjoe73 is offline  
Old 03-09-2010, 08:11 AM
  #7  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
RCVTR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
Posts: 1,689
RCVTR is an unknown quantity at this point
I'm always amazed at the capabilities of an SV650 in the hands of a good track rider.

People think they need to put a stiffer swingarm on their VTR. But the swingarm on an SV650 looks like it came off a minibike and they carry great corner speed.

If you carry good corner speed and get on the gas early, a big bike with a less-skilled rider will have trouble keeping up.
RCVTR is offline  
Old 03-09-2010, 08:23 AM
  #8  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
finepooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: moncton nb canada
Posts: 1,261
finepooch is on a distinguished road
the sv650 is a great bike. many people underestimate it.
finepooch is offline  
Old 03-09-2010, 08:28 AM
  #9  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
cliby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MN
Posts: 1,547
cliby is on a distinguished road
size matters!

but joe just put the different front end on and some lightweight wheels and add about 15hp and the SH will be and will feel like a much nimbler bike!

or just go out and buy a much nimbler bike I suppose - might be cheaper
cliby is offline  
Old 03-09-2010, 08:52 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
Erik S.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Westerly, RI
Posts: 1,216
Erik S. is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by smokinjoe73 View Post
Yeah, I have been racing production twins at Loudon for 11 yrs & its always amazing being on that tight technical track with a small, light twin. I routinely have GiXer1000s & rc51 guys come in & ask me what I did to the bike. The tight track really favors small light bikes that can transition well. I am just not used to it on the street.
You'll have to let me know when you're at Loudon. I want to take a trip up there and watch some of you guys. A friend of a friend rides his RC-51 up there regularly. Come watch both of you.

Erik
Erik S. is offline  
Old 03-09-2010, 10:36 AM
  #11  
Duc Hawk
SuperSport
 
Moto Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Malibu's canyons
Posts: 691
Moto Man is on a distinguished road
I hear you. My old '88 Hawk (NT650) is much more nimble than my VTR. As soon as I get the Fox shock on VTR and raise the *** a bit I think it might be a closer match. Just don't ever take an RC8 out for a test drive, it will ruin you for everything else.
Moto Man is offline  
Old 03-09-2010, 12:17 PM
  #12  
Senior Member
SuperSport
 
swordfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: North Wales, PA
Posts: 809
swordfish is an unknown quantity at this point
my buddy has an SV650 that I helped him upgrade over the years. its an 06, mircon carbon highmount pipe, woodcraft clipons, upgraded fork springs, steel braided lines, vry minimalist. anyway, I've ridden it alot. and yes it could turn rings around the hawk. the thing is tipping in before you even think about it. great cornering bike. but my buddy did ride my hawk up and down the street and he had about the same impression as was mentioned here. felt like a pig. but a pig with about 25 more HP. that being said, the sensation is exhagerated when you hope off one and onto the other, and there is something to be said for the stability of the hawk over the sv. when we are on the highway, he's getting blown all over the place, and I'm just chillin. rather than a "pig", I liken the hawk to a freight train. she'll still corner with almost anything else out there, but she requires a bit more finness. I'm fine with that. he could say my bike is too sluggish, but I could say his is too sensitive. he said that when he rode my hawk, he wasn't trying to see how powerful it was compared to the SV, because he was afraid of it. as it should be. and I've ridden with him at the track. he can go into corners hotter than me, but I always smoke him on the way out. check out that vid I posted back in sept. two SV650's had "professor Porky" schooling them that day.
swordfish is offline  
Old 03-09-2010, 01:17 PM
  #13  
RK1
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Way Out West
Posts: 2,547
RK1 is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by smokinjoe73 View Post
So I am riding the SV that I bought wrecked & fixed to race just to shake it down. It really feels like a GP bike in comparison. Tiny & agile. The VTR feels like an ST (nothing against them). But I hope my next mods of 1000RR front end penske shock can tweak the geometry back to the sportier side of sport touring. I love the VTR but it really feels sluggish when I jump back on it.
My 2 cents.

A new front end and shock might do great things for a VTR, but you can tweak the geometry all you want by pulling the fork tubes up in the clamps and putting a spacer over the rear shock.

Suspension compliance with the stock shock and front end are second rate, but I'll guess that folks who complain about it steering like a pig haven't bothered to adjust the front/rear ride height.

I have and my VTR steers quicker than any of the 500, 550 and 750cc bikes I've owned in the past.
RK1 is offline  
Old 03-09-2010, 01:27 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
Superstock
 
NCDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 344
NCDave is on a distinguished road
How much have you raised the fork tubes? I've put the spacers in the rear end.
NCDave is offline  
Old 03-09-2010, 01:34 PM
  #15  
Banned
MotoGP
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
Posts: 5,942
8541Hawk will become famous soon enough
I run mine with the forks up 10mm (it could use a little more but you have ground clearance problems, even at 10mm you can touch the header down in right handers) and a .250" spacer above the rear shock.

I do want to drop the forks back down with my new set up and get the geometry back by raising the rear but as the shock I have doesn't have ride height adjustment I am going to have to fabricate a new rear shock mount.
8541Hawk is offline  
Old 03-09-2010, 01:52 PM
  #16  
RK1
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Way Out West
Posts: 2,547
RK1 is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by NCDave View Post
How much have you raised the fork tubes? I've put the spacers in the rear end.
Dave;

I put 4mm worth of spacer over the rear shock and lowered the front (pulled the forks up through the clamps) 11mm, BUT, that after installing heavier Race Tech springs with combined spring/spacer OAL same as stock. So front ride height difference would be something less than 11mm. Don't know how much exactly, just know it works for me.

And I'm not knocking upgrading the shock and front end at all. If I had a spare $2k laying around right now I'd do it. Just saying seems to me the upgrade is about suspension compliance, not geometry.
RK1 is offline  
Old 03-09-2010, 02:15 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
RCVTR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
Posts: 1,689
RCVTR is an unknown quantity at this point
Originally Posted by RK1 View Post
My 2 cents.

A new front end and shock might do great things for a VTR, but you can tweak the geometry all you want by pulling the fork tubes up in the clamps and putting a spacer over the rear shock.

Suspension compliance with the stock shock and front end are second rate, but I'll guess that folks who complain about it steering like a pig haven't bothered to adjust the front/rear ride height.

I have and my VTR steers quicker than any of the 500, 550 and 750cc bikes I've owned in the past.
Agreed.

I replaced the rear shock on mine right away, so I can't say anything about the stock shock.

I was very happy with my front end after tuning it with valving, springs and fork brace.
The difference between the stock fork and the tuend version of it was far greater than going form the tuned stock forks to the tuned RC51 forks.

I was building an engine for mine, so I figured I better put some legs under it. Brakes were probably the best part of the upgrade, but that was only necessary on the track. After selling my stock front end, it didn't cost much to do the conversion.

A set of light wheels is by far the most dramatic improvement to a bike's handling that I've seen, though. I never thought an RC51 could feel so light and nimble. And it felt like a big ol' pig in stock trim with tuned forks and Ohlins shock. I wasn't sure I was even going to like it. I was very pleasantly surprised.
RCVTR is offline  
Old 03-09-2010, 03:22 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
Back Marker
 
mdbuehler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 216
mdbuehler
Ran in an endurance race down in Portland OR several years ago on an SV650 with some aftermarket wheels. I recall it being as manuevarable as my very modified GSF400 at the time, with an unholy amount of low end power in comparison. That's what got me started on the road to getting a Superhawk
mdbuehler is offline  
Old 03-09-2010, 06:16 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 3,447
VTRsurfer is on a distinguished road
Talk about riding a pig. When I bought my VTR new in August '05, my '83 BMW R100RS sat in the garage for 1 month. I thought I'd better take it out for a ride, and when I got to the corner I couldn't turn it...I mean I thought the steering head was frozen. So I made it around that corner and cranked the factory steering damper to the lowest setting. That wasn't the problem. After riding only the Beemer for 15 years, I didn't realize how much effort it took to set it up for a corner.

I decided right then to sell the RS. Got more than I paid for it too.
VTRsurfer is offline  
Old 06-14-2010, 12:56 PM
  #20  
I loves me twins
Superstock
 
NooB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 380
NooB is on a distinguished road
I know this thread is a bit old, but I feel like this is important to look at. Especially since I think the VTR is so much better and overlooked compared to the SV.

2nd Gen SV650 Frame geometry specs:

Wheelbase: 56.5
Rake: 25*
Trail: 102mm

Power: 72hp/47ft-lb
Weight 400lbs

VTR Frame geometry specs:

Wheelbase: 56.3
Rake: 24.8*
Trail: 97mm

Power: 110hp/70ft-lb
Weight 420lbs

Weight figures are taken from the Racetech website

More so than anything else, trail has the biggest effect to how a bike feels when it's turned. Generally the less trail the faster the bike turns. So when you look at that and the slight difference in weight between the two it's really interesting to see you guys say there's such a difference.

I've ridden both, I built a naked '99 SV with racetech forks and a Kawi 636 shock and yeah, it handled great, but when I rode my VTR for the first time I immediately thought "Whoa it's my SV with some *****!" Also I should add that I've owned and ridden a fully massaged TL1000S, XB12R Buell, an '08 600RR and the VTR is much more similar to the 600 supersport than the other twins.
NooB is offline  
Old 06-14-2010, 01:40 PM
  #21  
Senior Member
SuperSport
 
residentg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NY State
Posts: 667
residentg is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Moto Man View Post
I hear you. My old '88 Hawk (NT650) is much more nimble than my VTR. As soon as I get the Fox shock on VTR and raise the *** a bit I think it might be a closer match. Just don't ever take an RC8 out for a test drive, it will ruin you for everything else.
Do the F3 fork mod, CBR900 or Fox / Penske shock, and you will really be amazed at how flickalbe the NT is.
residentg is offline  
Old 06-15-2010, 08:29 AM
  #22  
Senior Member
MotoGP
Thread Starter
 
smokinjoe73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,923
smokinjoe73 is on a distinguished road
Yeah, its just my impression riding them back to back on the same day, day after day. Then I put an ohlins shock & race tech front end on the SV & am racing it now. I prefer the VTR on the street but the SV still feels motoGP in comparison. Both great bikes. I dont see the SV filling the streetbike roll for me but it is pretty quick on a tight track like Loudon.
smokinjoe73 is offline  
Old 06-18-2010, 04:15 AM
  #23  
Senior Member
SuperSport
 
Crashrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: In a van down by the river (I wish!)
Posts: 617
Crashrat is on a distinguished road
Cool thread. There have been a number of posts about this comparison and I always find it interesting. I think the weight specs NooB lists are somewhat off. IRL the SV is around 430lbs and the SH is 480lbs. Fifty pounds might not sound like much, but anyone who has ridden a Monster or SV back-to-back against a SH complains about the VTR. It would be interesting to see how a modified naked bike with suspension tweaks (like Kai Ju or VTS') would compare.

I know the SH feels like a rhino compared to my old Hawk GT and Buell M2, but she has more potential than either of these bikes, IMHO. Just need to sink the money and time into the thing...

CR
Crashrat is offline  
Old 06-18-2010, 04:56 AM
  #24  
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
 
Tweety's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Tweety is on a distinguished road
I have my bike down to around 400 lbs with a full tank of gas, ready to roll... And it's not naked... So you can do even better than that... And yes, the weight difference is noticable if I compare it too a stock bike... It feels like an elephant...
Tweety is offline  
Old 06-18-2010, 07:13 AM
  #25  
Senior Member
SuperSport
 
Crashrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: In a van down by the river (I wish!)
Posts: 617
Crashrat is on a distinguished road
*Search: Tweety diet*

I'm starting the process right now. Cashed out on an old 401-k that I forgot I had so I finally have a little money to splash on the bike. For me weight reduction is the natural next step after fixing the CCT and rectifyer. And the nice thing is that performance boosters like RC stuff appears to also shed weight, too, so you're killing two birds with one stone.

Unrelated note: The stock RC51 is actually a bit heavier than a VTR, according to http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/pe...lts/index.html I wouldn't have thought this was the case.

CR
Crashrat is offline  
Old 06-18-2010, 07:39 AM
  #26  
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
 
Tweety's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Tweety is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Crashrat View Post
*Search: Tweety diet*

I'm starting the process right now. Cashed out on an old 401-k that I forgot I had so I finally have a little money to splash on the bike. For me weight reduction is the natural next step after fixing the CCT and rectifyer. And the nice thing is that performance boosters like RC stuff appears to also shed weight, too, so you're killing two birds with one stone.

Unrelated note: The stock RC51 is actually a bit heavier than a VTR, according to http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/pe...lts/index.html I wouldn't have thought this was the case.

CR
The RC in road trim is a bit porky... If you put it on a diet and let it visit the gym a few times it becomes a beast on track... See RCVTR's thread for a good example...

My diet is simple... Remove heavy stuff be replacing them with more rigid and lighter stuff... The RC swingarm and CBR fork are prime examples... Then reduce unsprung weight with the lighter CBR wheels... Aluminium fairing stay and rear subframe helps... Slip-ons reduce a lot of weight also... Swapping the battey is another good weight reduction...

Then just keep going in that direction past "strange" onto "freaking nuts" and you are where I'm at now...
Tweety is offline  
Old 06-18-2010, 10:54 AM
  #27  
Senior Member
SuperSport
 
Crashrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: In a van down by the river (I wish!)
Posts: 617
Crashrat is on a distinguished road
Ah, I don't have enough cash for freaking nuts, but I just might edge into strange.

Man, I could read that battery thread all day...

Back to the SV, though. I used to ride with a guy who had one when I had the Hawk GT. My impressions were generally pretty good, but both bikes were slow and the Honda handled better and was significantly lighter. I had F3 forks and a Fox shock on the Hawk, though, and the SV was more or less stock. Man, I miss that Hawk sometimes...

CR
Crashrat is offline  
Old 06-18-2010, 12:02 PM
  #28  
Senior Member
Back Marker
 
Red_Liner740's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 243
Red_Liner740 is on a distinguished road
i just bought my g/f her upgrade bike, an 04 sv650 thats been converted to naked headlights and an 05 GSXR600 front end (suspension/wheel/brakes)

Yosh slip-on, single seat cowl, and a chin fairing and frame sliders were my upgrades on the bike and man, when it comes to twisties....not so much that its faster in the corner, in both cases i'm the weak link , but the SV650 is much more confidence inspiring. I feel fearless on it compared to the VTR. Mind u my VTR front tire is starting to go, so its always in the back of my head....i really should put on the replacement bt016 i have sitting.

and for 70hp the bike moves pretty quick, much shorter gears help....and on the SV i feel like i can always twist the throttle wide open, VTR, if i do that, hello sky...

but yea, on longer rides the VTR is more comfortable with better ergonomics
Red_Liner740 is offline  
Old 06-24-2010, 12:35 PM
  #29  
Junior Member
Squid
 
mtr_NH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NH
Posts: 15
mtr_NH is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by finepooch View Post
the sv650 is a great bike. many people underestimate it.
very true, havin gone from a gen1 SV to gen2 SV and now a SH... got hooked early on vtwins and was a good step up to somethng that has more power, etc
mtr_NH is offline  
Old 06-24-2010, 01:50 PM
  #30  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 3,447
VTRsurfer is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Red_Liner740 View Post
and for 70hp the bike moves pretty quick, much shorter gears help....and on the SV i feel like i can always twist the throttle wide open, VTR, if i do that, hello sky...
My wife's '07 SV650S is her 2nd bike (1st was EX500). Yosh stainless slip-on, rear cowl cover, LP dark smoke screen, passenger pegs removed, rear fender kit, BT016's.

I rode her bike on my favorite canyon road several times while my VTR was in the shop after getting rear ended. The difference I noticed was where I'm entering corners at 5000 rpm on my bike, I had to be at 7000 rpm on the SV to get any punch out of the corner. And even at that, there's no comparison with the VTR punch. All in all, I had a blast riding the SV, but I was glad to get my VTR back.

But that SV sure likes to fall into corners, and it feels much lighter to me. 430 and 480 pounds are the correct stock wet weight figures.
VTRsurfer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: My new SV650 makes VTR feel porky


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:28 PM.


© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands