Muffler repack
05-11-2014, 11:38 AM
#1
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SuperBike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bisbee, AZ
Posts: 1,873
Muffler repack
Picked up a set of V&H slip-ons from a member here. Opened one up to repair a small dent and discovered that the packing is mostly burned through on one side of the can. The material that was in there was a fiberglass type, but very dense, like a fiberglass "felt". Have been searching both here and the web for info for a good replacement for repacking. The best looking option so far seems to be this:
Yoshimura R&D
Anyone have experience with this or a similar Yoshi repack kit? The price sure seems good. Looks like it's enough to do both cans. I have emailed them with that exact question, have to wait and see.
My guess is that the V&H were/are pretty loud. I would just go with the V&H packing (the Yoshi kit is quite a bit cheaper) but I'm thinking that the denser material will not attenuate the sound as much as a slighter fluffier glass batt. Is my thinking off here?
I also looked at a repack kit from TBR, as some on this site have given it good reports. Not sure if the glass batt that is in the TBR kit will be long enough (the sheet metal portion V&H measures 17.5") to cover the internal length on the V&H cans. I've had not luck finding dimensions on the length TBR cans, and I will need two kits to do both cans, and only one kit from Yoshi (maybe).
The V&H was not my first choice but the price was right, and I just can't justify $500-700 for a new set of Yoshis or Leos.
Yoshimura R&D
Anyone have experience with this or a similar Yoshi repack kit? The price sure seems good. Looks like it's enough to do both cans. I have emailed them with that exact question, have to wait and see.
My guess is that the V&H were/are pretty loud. I would just go with the V&H packing (the Yoshi kit is quite a bit cheaper) but I'm thinking that the denser material will not attenuate the sound as much as a slighter fluffier glass batt. Is my thinking off here?
I also looked at a repack kit from TBR, as some on this site have given it good reports. Not sure if the glass batt that is in the TBR kit will be long enough (the sheet metal portion V&H measures 17.5") to cover the internal length on the V&H cans. I've had not luck finding dimensions on the length TBR cans, and I will need two kits to do both cans, and only one kit from Yoshi (maybe).
The V&H was not my first choice but the price was right, and I just can't justify $500-700 for a new set of Yoshis or Leos.
05-11-2014, 01:07 PM
#2
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: May 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 397
I've had good results with the Silent Sport premium loose fill which is the same packing material Akra, Arata and few other big brands use. I used about a 1500 gms in total with both cans. Mine are SP1 cans so a little longer than standard storm length so you may get away with two 500gm bags. 1 for each can.
SP Schalldmm Technologie GmbH & Co.KG | Silent Sport Racing Team
And here's a good link on packing cans. You may even want to purchase their packing as it's on your side of the pond.
Muffler Packing - Area P :: No Limits
I would defiantly recommend loose fill over the roll stuff. Very easy to pack down into the can. The hardest part of the job is removing the rivets and getting the end caps off. But sounds like you have done that already.
(:-})
SP Schalldmm Technologie GmbH & Co.KG | Silent Sport Racing Team
And here's a good link on packing cans. You may even want to purchase their packing as it's on your side of the pond.
Muffler Packing - Area P :: No Limits
I would defiantly recommend loose fill over the roll stuff. Very easy to pack down into the can. The hardest part of the job is removing the rivets and getting the end caps off. But sounds like you have done that already.
(:-})
05-11-2014, 03:28 PM
#4
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: May 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 397
You know what....it's one of those things and can't be helped. These bikes like to eat packing as much as they drink fuel LOL it's hard to imagine the heat and pressures the exhausts are under. Packing material is a consumable item.
I've even heard some sites suggesting that packing needs changing every couple of years. Personally I would wait untill it's well and truly burnt and falling apart and spitting out the outlet before changing as the good stuff is not cheap and it's a faff of a job to do. The only exception would be carbon sleeved cans as they can easily get damaged or even blow a hole in the carbon if there is too much heat.
I've done a lot a lot of research into packing and read on a lot of forums where some people suggest wrapping the perforated tube in wire wool first (Steel wool I think you guys call it over there) Dont do it. This is really bad, especially the really fine stuff, 000 grade, as it heats up fast, glows red and accelerates the damage to the packing material and surrounding area, could even break the tube where it may be welded in place. If you think about it the idea of packing apart form noise reduction is to absorb and transfer the heat away not contain it. Wire wool could also catch fire and spit flames and sparks out your can a bit like magnesium shards. OK for a bit of showmanship but not good for you cans.
When you pack your cans you want a more dense fill towards the inlet (link pipe end) where there is more heat and a less dense fill towards the outlet. The more densely packed the can is the more of a deeper note you will get.
(:-})
I've even heard some sites suggesting that packing needs changing every couple of years. Personally I would wait untill it's well and truly burnt and falling apart and spitting out the outlet before changing as the good stuff is not cheap and it's a faff of a job to do. The only exception would be carbon sleeved cans as they can easily get damaged or even blow a hole in the carbon if there is too much heat.
I've done a lot a lot of research into packing and read on a lot of forums where some people suggest wrapping the perforated tube in wire wool first (Steel wool I think you guys call it over there) Dont do it. This is really bad, especially the really fine stuff, 000 grade, as it heats up fast, glows red and accelerates the damage to the packing material and surrounding area, could even break the tube where it may be welded in place. If you think about it the idea of packing apart form noise reduction is to absorb and transfer the heat away not contain it. Wire wool could also catch fire and spit flames and sparks out your can a bit like magnesium shards. OK for a bit of showmanship but not good for you cans.
When you pack your cans you want a more dense fill towards the inlet (link pipe end) where there is more heat and a less dense fill towards the outlet. The more densely packed the can is the more of a deeper note you will get.
(:-})
05-11-2014, 05:26 PM
#5
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SuperBike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bisbee, AZ
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No worries. They are used, and to be expected. I'm happy that I found out before I went through the install only to have to do it again.
05-11-2014, 06:43 PM
#6
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SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,116
TBR C2 (small oval) cans need about 18", so they should work in the V&H.
TBR cans also come OE (so to speak) with stainless steel steel wool over the perforated core, and It does not burn out or glow red hot (that I can tell). I use VHT ceramic "felt" rolled thicker at the inlet and about 1 later less starting half way up (out direction). Ceramic insulation does not burn or deteriorate bit does clog up, necessitating replacement.
I use safety wire to holed the SS SW and again for the insulation to get it in the can. I also use large head stainless rivets or in a pinch steel or aluminum...
TBR cans also come OE (so to speak) with stainless steel steel wool over the perforated core, and It does not burn out or glow red hot (that I can tell). I use VHT ceramic "felt" rolled thicker at the inlet and about 1 later less starting half way up (out direction). Ceramic insulation does not burn or deteriorate bit does clog up, necessitating replacement.
I use safety wire to holed the SS SW and again for the insulation to get it in the can. I also use large head stainless rivets or in a pinch steel or aluminum...
05-11-2014, 10:46 PM
#7
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MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,033
Aw, man, you fancy college boys with your store-bought haircuts, permanent press slacks and muffler packing.
Back in my day...ahem.....last November(ish) we'd just ride on down to the plumbing supply store. Well those guys have insulation already in the right shape!. Bungees right onto the back of your steed and a few hacks of the knife later, you are on your way!
Actually did this only cuz a storm was coming and I really didnt want my carbon cans blowing up in the mean time. Super cheap but doesnt last long.
Then I got this ceramic stuff. Has lasted a good while and sounds good.
Ceramic Silencer Motorcycle Muffler Packing Kit 1" x 12" x 24" High Temperature | eBay
I agree with Carlsbad about the steel stuff. How mad are you after all that rivet drilling and popping when you fire it up and it sounds like a teenagers coffee can muffler econobox?
Back in my day...ahem.....last November(ish) we'd just ride on down to the plumbing supply store. Well those guys have insulation already in the right shape!. Bungees right onto the back of your steed and a few hacks of the knife later, you are on your way!
Actually did this only cuz a storm was coming and I really didnt want my carbon cans blowing up in the mean time. Super cheap but doesnt last long.
Then I got this ceramic stuff. Has lasted a good while and sounds good.
Ceramic Silencer Motorcycle Muffler Packing Kit 1" x 12" x 24" High Temperature | eBay
I agree with Carlsbad about the steel stuff. How mad are you after all that rivet drilling and popping when you fire it up and it sounds like a teenagers coffee can muffler econobox?
05-12-2014, 07:32 AM
#8
Senior Member
SuperBike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bisbee, AZ
Posts: 1,873
I've had good results with th Silent Sport premium loose fill which is the same packing material Akra, Arata and few other big brands use. I used about a 1500 gms in total with both cans. Mine are SP1 cans so a little longer than standard storm length so you may get away with two 500gm bags. 1 for each can.
SP Schalldmm Technologie GmbH & Co.KG | Silent Sport Racing Team
And here's a good link on packing cans. You may even want to purchase their packing as it's on your side of the pond.
Muffler Packing - Area P :: No Limits
I would defiantly recommend loose fill over the roll stuff. Very easy to pack down into the can. The hardest part of the job is removing the rivets and getting the end caps off. But sounds like you have done that already.
(:-})
SP Schalldmm Technologie GmbH & Co.KG | Silent Sport Racing Team
And here's a good link on packing cans. You may even want to purchase their packing as it's on your side of the pond.
Muffler Packing - Area P :: No Limits
I would defiantly recommend loose fill over the roll stuff. Very easy to pack down into the can. The hardest part of the job is removing the rivets and getting the end caps off. But sounds like you have done that already.
(:-})
The perforated inner core on the V&H is covered with a fine wire screen. Based on info from the two loose fill sites that is something to be avoided as it does not allow as efficient heat and sound absorption. Makes sense to me. Because of the construction of the V&H cans loose packing material will be less than a straight forward install. I'm leaning toward the loose fill, but will have to think up a method to load the can from the outlet end and then reassemble. I currently have both ends off. Oh yeah, the outlet end hat 6 mild steel hex socket bolts that were frozen, and of course the heads stripped necessitating drilling the heads off, removing the stub of the bolt left in the end cap.
TBR C2 (small oval) cans need about 18", so they should work in the V&H.
TBR cans also come OE (so to speak) with stainless steel steel wool over the perforated core, and It does not burn out or glow red hot (that I can tell). I use VHT ceramic "felt" rolled thicker at the inlet and about 1 later less starting half way up (out direction). Ceramic insulation does not burn or deteriorate bit does clog up, necessitating replacement.
I use safety wire to holed the SS SW and again for the insulation to get it in the can. I also use large head stainless rivets or in a pinch steel or aluminum...
TBR cans also come OE (so to speak) with stainless steel steel wool over the perforated core, and It does not burn out or glow red hot (that I can tell). I use VHT ceramic "felt" rolled thicker at the inlet and about 1 later less starting half way up (out direction). Ceramic insulation does not burn or deteriorate bit does clog up, necessitating replacement.
I use safety wire to holed the SS SW and again for the insulation to get it in the can. I also use large head stainless rivets or in a pinch steel or aluminum...
After looking at picture of the ceramic insulation it seem clear the the OE material in the V&H was a ceramic type.
I am still going to need to source some SS rivets as I found exactly 4 in my box O rivets. Like to find some with a little larger head than what I have.
Aw, man, you fancy college boys with your store-bought haircuts, permanent press slacks and muffler packing.
Back in my day...ahem.....last November(ish) we'd just ride on down to the plumbing supply store. Well those guys have insulation already in the right shape!. Bungees right onto the back of your steed and a few hacks of the knife later, you are on your way!
Actually did this only cuz a storm was coming and I really didnt want my carbon cans blowing up in the mean time. Super cheap but doesnt last long.
Then I got this ceramic stuff. Has lasted a good while and sounds good.
Ceramic Silencer Motorcycle Muffler Packing Kit 1" x 12" x 24" High Temperature | eBay
I agree with Carlsbad about the steel stuff. How mad are you after all that rivet drilling and popping when you fire it up and it sounds like a teenagers coffee can muffler econobox?
Back in my day...ahem.....last November(ish) we'd just ride on down to the plumbing supply store. Well those guys have insulation already in the right shape!. Bungees right onto the back of your steed and a few hacks of the knife later, you are on your way!
Actually did this only cuz a storm was coming and I really didnt want my carbon cans blowing up in the mean time. Super cheap but doesnt last long.
Then I got this ceramic stuff. Has lasted a good while and sounds good.
Ceramic Silencer Motorcycle Muffler Packing Kit 1" x 12" x 24" High Temperature | eBay
I agree with Carlsbad about the steel stuff. How mad are you after all that rivet drilling and popping when you fire it up and it sounds like a teenagers coffee can muffler econobox?
Thanks all for the info. It will help me make a decision on how to proceed.
Last edited by xeris; 05-12-2014 at 08:06 AM. Reason: addition
05-15-2014, 08:50 PM
#10
Deals Gap is a Hoot!
Back Marker
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Louis, Mizzery
Posts: 104
Quick and easy repack
My friend who is a Master Honda showed me years ago how to repack mufflers back when we were racing 2 strokes and at a time in motorcycle history when back pressure was a must in order to go fast!
Man was it an oily messy dirty job.
Ok,
Wrap your new packing as tight as you can around the core, then go around the outside of the packing as tight as you can get it with everyday masking tape.
The masking tape holds the packing in place so you can finish the rebuild.
Once the engine gets up to operating temps the masking tape burns away and the packing expands to fill the voids inside the mufflers.
SIRR1
Man was it an oily messy dirty job.
Ok,
Wrap your new packing as tight as you can around the core, then go around the outside of the packing as tight as you can get it with everyday masking tape.
The masking tape holds the packing in place so you can finish the rebuild.
Once the engine gets up to operating temps the masking tape burns away and the packing expands to fill the voids inside the mufflers.
SIRR1
05-15-2014, 09:04 PM
#11
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,033
YES SIRR! Thats what the blue tape is in my pictoral tutorial. For sure its not a fun job and the dog days of summer is the worst. All those micro fibers flying into open sweaty pores.
I was amazed how nice the job got in 50*F and long sleeves.
I was amazed how nice the job got in 50*F and long sleeves.
05-15-2014, 09:25 PM
#12
Member
Squid
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 35
If you go to the V&H website you can completely recondition those cans really very reasonably cost wise. Packing, baffle tubes, back caps, springs, almost everything but the front caps. They even have the rivets. I did my SS2 for something under $60. Hard to beat and considerably less than $600-$700. Could use the extra change for--?
The Dragons Tail is in my backyard.
The Dragons Tail is in my backyard.
05-15-2014, 09:38 PM
#13
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,116
And it stinks like heck when it burns "off"! It can also cause hot spot "stains" on Ti cans and thin aluminum on occasion too.
I use safety wire instead.
I use safety wire instead.
My friend who is a Master Honda showed me years ago how to repack mufflers back when we were racing 2 strokes and at a time in motorcycle history when back pressure was a must in order to go fast!
Man was it an oily messy dirty job.
Ok,
Wrap your new packing as tight as you can around the core, then go around the outside of the packing as tight as you can get it with everyday masking tape.
The masking tape holds the packing in place so you can finish the rebuild.
Once the engine gets up to operating temps the masking tape burns away and the packing expands to fill the voids inside the mufflers.
SIRR1
Man was it an oily messy dirty job.
Ok,
Wrap your new packing as tight as you can around the core, then go around the outside of the packing as tight as you can get it with everyday masking tape.
The masking tape holds the packing in place so you can finish the rebuild.
Once the engine gets up to operating temps the masking tape burns away and the packing expands to fill the voids inside the mufflers.
SIRR1
05-16-2014, 06:29 AM
#14
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SuperBike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bisbee, AZ
Posts: 1,873
The stock packing is held in place with a tape that appears to have melted but is still somewhat intact where the packing has not burned through.
Because of the way that the cans are constructed I think it will next to impossible to use a loose fill. I'm leaning toward the V&H repack kit.
05-16-2014, 08:05 AM
#15
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SuperBike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bisbee, AZ
Posts: 1,873
If you go to the V&H website you can completely recondition those cans really very reasonably cost wise. Packing, baffle tubes, back caps, springs, almost everything but the front caps. They even have the rivets. I did my SS2 for something under $60. Hard to beat and considerably less than $600-$700. Could use the extra change for--?
The Dragons Tail is in my backyard.
The Dragons Tail is in my backyard.
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