Lowering forks??
04-18-2012, 05:43 AM
#1
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Squid
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Lowering forks??
Hi everybody,
I have a question for all the SHawk gurus,
I just installed racetech springs and 5wt oil in my forks, so now my new to me 2001 SHawk sits higher.
Should I lower the forks about 5 or 10mm to go back to the factory height?
Thanks for your help.
Tony
I have a question for all the SHawk gurus,
I just installed racetech springs and 5wt oil in my forks, so now my new to me 2001 SHawk sits higher.
Should I lower the forks about 5 or 10mm to go back to the factory height?
Thanks for your help.
Tony
04-18-2012, 08:00 AM
#2
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You can lower the forks to get the original geometry due to sag, not a problem.
Make sure you measure the exact drop from the upper triple tree with a caliper or similar tool so both forks will be leveled.
Cheers
Make sure you measure the exact drop from the upper triple tree with a caliper or similar tool so both forks will be leveled.
Cheers
04-18-2012, 10:00 AM
#3
Seasoned tech
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What was your reason for changing the springs? Spring rate is generally only changed to accomodate the weight of the rider, not to sitffen the suspension or prefent bottoming. You want a spring that will allow the proper amount of sag with you on the bike. If it's jacked your ride height way up it sounds like you've got to stiff of a spring. To "stiffen" or "soften" the suspension should always be done with the adjusters, valving, oil weight.
04-18-2012, 10:46 AM
#4
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Sounds like you should just trim the spacers a bit shorter than you did. When I put new springs in mine I had the opposite problem because I made the spacers just a bit too short, but it was within range of the pre-load adjusters.
Last edited by CrankenFine; 04-18-2012 at 10:47 AM. Reason: typo
04-18-2012, 04:02 PM
#8
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That sounds more like a damping issue than a spring issue. You need to adjust compression damping and/or go to a heavier weight oil. Preload won't help for this and stiffer springs will just give a harsher ride and still not really help.
04-18-2012, 04:32 PM
#9
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If you guys care to use the search engine, there is lots and lots of great info on setting up the superhawks front forks. Speaking from what little knowledge I have on Superhawk front suspension. Its a fact the stock springs are too weak for most riders? I think it has been said they are rated for 140lbs rider? Which I'm guessing rules out most of us.
Best simple fix (read cheap fix) you do to our stock front forks is change the springs for the correct weight of the rider, do not go more than 7.5wt on the fork oil, 5wt is better. I'll let one of the more knowledge suspension experts chime in about the issues of the front compression & rebound.
As for lowering the forks. For me personally I found that changing the height of the forks more than 3 or 4 millimeters was all I needed to speed up the front end steeering.
Question? when you re-built the front forks with the new springs how much pre-load did you allow for on the spacers? when you screwed the fork cap back on? I think racetech gives you a measurement of 15mm? ( not the length of the spacer) not sure its been a few years since I re-built my front end.
Best simple fix (read cheap fix) you do to our stock front forks is change the springs for the correct weight of the rider, do not go more than 7.5wt on the fork oil, 5wt is better. I'll let one of the more knowledge suspension experts chime in about the issues of the front compression & rebound.
As for lowering the forks. For me personally I found that changing the height of the forks more than 3 or 4 millimeters was all I needed to speed up the front end steeering.
Question? when you re-built the front forks with the new springs how much pre-load did you allow for on the spacers? when you screwed the fork cap back on? I think racetech gives you a measurement of 15mm? ( not the length of the spacer) not sure its been a few years since I re-built my front end.
Last edited by speedkelly@aol.com; 04-18-2012 at 04:57 PM.
04-18-2012, 04:49 PM
#10
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What it sounds like to me is the bike is now sitting closer to where it is supposed to be as compared you original set up.
Changing springs won't change the ride height. Not having the proper sag will.
Have you set the sag on the front end? Do you know how to set it?
The first step would be to set the sag. After that is done, then you can fine tune the suspension from there.
Making geometry changes at this time will just cause you more headaches.....
Changing springs won't change the ride height. Not having the proper sag will.
Have you set the sag on the front end? Do you know how to set it?
The first step would be to set the sag. After that is done, then you can fine tune the suspension from there.
Making geometry changes at this time will just cause you more headaches.....
04-18-2012, 07:10 PM
#11
the boss
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im glad this discussion is going on,i havnt put my forks together yet,only because i needed to order new ones.
so if you put the forks in the factory position,all you have to do is set sag.
when you put the cap back on the forks.what settings should the rebound and compressions be set at.
so if you put the forks in the factory position,all you have to do is set sag.
when you put the cap back on the forks.what settings should the rebound and compressions be set at.
04-18-2012, 07:21 PM
#12
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With the stock forks there is no compression adjustment.
So after you set the sag, what I do is first turn the rebound adjusters all the way out and "bounce" the front end. This is actually harder than it sounds as you want to push down on the same angle as the forks, not straight down.
Then you want to let the forks rebound but only hold on enough not to drop the bike. You don't want to "control" the bounce on rebound with your hands.
After you get it down and can see the front end bounce at the end of its travel, then turn the adjusters all the way in and try it again. The front end should "hang" at bit and then slowly come up fully.
Now you know everything is working.
At that point you want to back the adjusters out so the forks just come to the top of their travel and stop. If they hang a little, then try 1\2 turn less damping. If the front end bounces, then add 1\2 a turn of damping.
Around 1 1\2 turns out from fully seated is when most stock front ends I've set up seem to like.
Once you get the forks to just come up and stop, then you need to ride the bike and fine tune from there as riding and braking styles will have an effect on the final settings.
So after you set the sag, what I do is first turn the rebound adjusters all the way out and "bounce" the front end. This is actually harder than it sounds as you want to push down on the same angle as the forks, not straight down.
Then you want to let the forks rebound but only hold on enough not to drop the bike. You don't want to "control" the bounce on rebound with your hands.
After you get it down and can see the front end bounce at the end of its travel, then turn the adjusters all the way in and try it again. The front end should "hang" at bit and then slowly come up fully.
Now you know everything is working.
At that point you want to back the adjusters out so the forks just come to the top of their travel and stop. If they hang a little, then try 1\2 turn less damping. If the front end bounces, then add 1\2 a turn of damping.
Around 1 1\2 turns out from fully seated is when most stock front ends I've set up seem to like.
Once you get the forks to just come up and stop, then you need to ride the bike and fine tune from there as riding and braking styles will have an effect on the final settings.
04-18-2012, 07:27 PM
#13
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Squid
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I followed this for the front end,
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieDaugherty
I'd suggest 0.90kg/mm springs for your weight. On the street you can't brake hard enough to make a difference, so don't adjust the rate for that.
As for fluid, the SS stuff is what comes in the forks from the factory and is known to be partly to mostly crappy. You should run Honda Pro Oils 5wt - that's the best stuff. As already suggested, revalving the forks is the really the best thing. Don't try to run higher weight to adjust for the stock valving as that just makes things worse and takes you in the opposite direction you want to go. Run the HP 5w and correct springs until you have the scratch to get your valving setup correctly.
I always set VTR forks with a fluid height of 120mm, in case that helps. Good luck!
I'd suggest 0.90kg/mm springs for your weight. On the street you can't brake hard enough to make a difference, so don't adjust the rate for that.
As for fluid, the SS stuff is what comes in the forks from the factory and is known to be partly to mostly crappy. You should run Honda Pro Oils 5wt - that's the best stuff. As already suggested, revalving the forks is the really the best thing. Don't try to run higher weight to adjust for the stock valving as that just makes things worse and takes you in the opposite direction you want to go. Run the HP 5w and correct springs until you have the scratch to get your valving setup correctly.
I always set VTR forks with a fluid height of 120mm, in case that helps. Good luck!
Then I had my suspension set up at a track day by one of the sponsor (the bike worked great), but I was wondering if lowering the forks 5 or 10mm would gain any performance (better cornering).
On the other hand let me tell you, the SHawk is a beast compared to the one it replaced (2005 cbr600rr)
Thanks for all your help and sorry for all the confusion.
Tony
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieDaugherty
I'd suggest 0.90kg/mm springs for your weight. On the street you can't brake hard enough to make a difference, so don't adjust the rate for that.
As for fluid, the SS stuff is what comes in the forks from the factory and is known to be partly to mostly crappy. You should run Honda Pro Oils 5wt - that's the best stuff. As already suggested, revalving the forks is the really the best thing. Don't try to run higher weight to adjust for the stock valving as that just makes things worse and takes you in the opposite direction you want to go. Run the HP 5w and correct springs until you have the scratch to get your valving setup correctly.
I always set VTR forks with a fluid height of 120mm, in case that helps. Good luck!
I'd suggest 0.90kg/mm springs for your weight. On the street you can't brake hard enough to make a difference, so don't adjust the rate for that.
As for fluid, the SS stuff is what comes in the forks from the factory and is known to be partly to mostly crappy. You should run Honda Pro Oils 5wt - that's the best stuff. As already suggested, revalving the forks is the really the best thing. Don't try to run higher weight to adjust for the stock valving as that just makes things worse and takes you in the opposite direction you want to go. Run the HP 5w and correct springs until you have the scratch to get your valving setup correctly.
I always set VTR forks with a fluid height of 120mm, in case that helps. Good luck!
Then I had my suspension set up at a track day by one of the sponsor (the bike worked great), but I was wondering if lowering the forks 5 or 10mm would gain any performance (better cornering).
On the other hand let me tell you, the SHawk is a beast compared to the one it replaced (2005 cbr600rr)
Thanks for all your help and sorry for all the confusion.
Tony
04-18-2012, 07:48 PM
#16
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04-18-2012, 08:18 PM
#18
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04-18-2012, 08:21 PM
#19
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If you bottom out the forks, raise the level until it stops.
If the forks don't use their full travel, then lower the level.
So there is no set answer, just another starting point which you then fine tune to fit your riding style.
04-18-2012, 08:34 PM
#20
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Also, you can drop several millimeters at the forks assuming you have the forks already adjusted to your weight, as it seems you did
Both these adjustments will improve your cornering, but as 8541Hawk had mentioned, you have to be careful not to drop it too much due to the front header.
04-19-2012, 09:58 AM
#23
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With stock forks (with a fork brace) I ran 1\4" or 6.35mm with no issues.
With the suspension I have now, Ohlins rear & SP2 forks w\Ohlins valves, I run 10mm at the rear.
So don't be afraid to experiment, just do it in small steps until you find what works for you and your riding style.
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