Modifications - Performance Discuss aftermarket and DIY performance modifications

Lighter rear rim??

Old 12-22-2011, 05:38 PM
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Lighter rear rim??

I've been looking for a CBR900 3 spoke rim to avail.
Tweety once wrote -
"Then for the wheels... I'm fairly certain a 600RR/1000RR (the difference is 5.5"/6") rear rim can be fitted to the stock swingarm using new bearings and custom turned spacers with rather minimal effort... The alignment is the same, the rotor and caliper/mount is the same (with alignment) so the only real difference is the axle size..."

I haven't found much written about the 600rr rear wheel mod. 600rr rears rims are plentiful and I will ASSume a whole lot lighter than stock!! What year is best and what was required to make it fit? Is it best to go with the 600rr cush drive?
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:24 PM
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check out the PM Chicane rear wheel in the classifieds section selztoad is selling.
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Old 12-23-2011, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by D VTR RIDER View Post
I've been looking for a CBR900 3 spoke rim to avail.
Tweety once wrote -
"Then for the wheels... I'm fairly certain a 600RR/1000RR (the difference is 5.5"/6") rear rim can be fitted to the stock swingarm using new bearings and custom turned spacers with rather minimal effort... The alignment is the same, the rotor and caliper/mount is the same (with alignment) so the only real difference is the axle size..."

I haven't found much written about the 600rr rear wheel mod. 600rr rears rims are plentiful and I will ASSume a whole lot lighter than stock!! What year is best and what was required to make it fit? Is it best to go with the 600rr cush drive?
I'm fairly sure no-one tried it, so you get to be the guinea pig and tell us all the fun facts...

I have all the parts, including a spare 1000RR rear rim, and spare stock swing, so I could potentially take some measurements for you... But that will have to wait until after the 12'th of january when i get the stitches in my hand and the cast removed after surgery... Until then I'm under strict orders from the doctor and under supervision of my better half, and going close to the shed is punishable by nagging...
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Old 12-23-2011, 02:04 AM
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But from memory only...

Option One, source the right size bearings for a 20 mm axle on the 600RR wheel... That means all the bearings including the ones in the cushdrive, since that's where half the weight on the VTR one is... Then with a little luck, the stock axle and spacers will just fit right then and there...

Option Two, would be to take the 600RR wheel, axle and spacers... Then rip off the chain adjustments on the stock swingarm, and mill the holes larger in diameter and make custom adjusters to replace the stock ones which is crap anyways, and when you are at it, brace the swingarm... Then possibly but not neccesarily cut new spacers... And bolt it right up... That's about it, bar all the fun surprises...

Last edited by Tweety; 12-23-2011 at 02:08 AM.
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Old 12-23-2011, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
But from memory only...

Option One, source the right size bearings for a 20 mm axle on the 600RR wheel... That means all the bearings including the ones in the cushdrive, since that's where half the weight on the VTR one is... Then with a little luck, the stock axle and spacers will just fit right then and there...

Option Two, would be to take the 600RR wheel, axle and spacers... Then rip off the chain adjustments on the stock swingarm, and mill the holes larger in diameter and make custom adjusters to replace the stock ones which is crap anyways, and when you are at it, brace the swingarm... Then possibly but not neccesarily cut new spacers... And bolt it right up... That's about it, bar all the fun surprises...
I've thought of both options. It would be easier if I could get my hands on a rim to measure up and check out the bearings OD dimensions and see if they are available with the same OD but with the VTR ID dimension. The spacers are the easy part, assuming it can still be fitted inside the swing arm and still have the sprokets aligh correctly.
Machining the swing arm is more complicated and will require a machine shop and $$$ but it is certainly doable. We have a machinist at where I work however he is off do to a liver transplant. No telling if he will be back!
If I choose option 1 or 2, I will certainly have to document it.
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Old 12-23-2011, 11:25 AM
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also have to clearance rear caliper mount and fanagle it some.
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
I'm fairly sure no-one tried it, so you get to be the guinea pig and tell us all the fun facts...

I have all the parts, including a spare 1000RR rear rim, and spare stock swing, so I could potentially take some measurements for you... But that will have to wait until after the 12'th of january when i get the stitches in my hand and the cast removed after surgery... Until then I'm under strict orders from the doctor and under supervision of my better half, and going close to the shed is punishable by nagging...
Measurements of a 600rr would be nice if someone had one.
The brake disc has the same diameter as the Firestorm i.e. 220mm.
I'm sure that the rim is way lighter than the VTR's.
So what happened to the hand and when did you start listening to the better half?
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Old 12-24-2011, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by D VTR RIDER View Post
Measurements of a 600rr would be nice if someone had one.
The brake disc has the same diameter as the Firestorm i.e. 220mm.
I'm sure that the rim is way lighter than the VTR's.
So what happened to the hand and when did you start listening to the better half?
Well, lets start with the bike parts shall we?

The spacing on the wheel, and the brake disc is identical on the CBR's and the VTR... So with the correct spacers, the wheel should mount right up in terms of lateral spacing...

As for the CBR bearings, go have a look at RonAyers, you can get the bearing type from there, and then look up the dimensions... Should be an easy job to find suitable bearings then...

Well, I managed to hurt myself twice in a short time... A cast on my foot due to a crack in one bone, and a nice 2" long slice across my palm from a aluminium burr when tapping thread... As a result I have a bunch of stitches there...

And while I might not listen really, she informed me that if I hobbled out there, I could lace up my own shoes, and button up my own shirts, etc... And since going to work in my undies isn't an option, I feel obligated to comply... It's a bit hard to do those things when the hand only closes about half way before I start whimpering... And buttoning them with the left would kind of work, except I can't even hold the fabric with the right to "aim"... So for the next week or so, until the pain receedes I'm playing it safe...
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Old 12-24-2011, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
Well, lets start with the bike parts shall we?

The spacing on the wheel, and the brake disc is identical on the CBR's and the VTR... So with the correct spacers, the wheel should mount right up in terms of lateral spacing...

As for the CBR bearings, go have a look at RonAyers, you can get the bearing type from there, and then look up the dimensions... Should be an easy job to find suitable bearings then...

Well, I managed to hurt myself twice in a short time... A cast on my foot due to a crack in one bone, and a nice 2" long slice across my palm from a aluminium burr when tapping thread... As a result I have a bunch of stitches there...

And while I might not listen really, she informed me that if I hobbled out there, I could lace up my own shoes, and button up my own shirts, etc... And since going to work in my undies isn't an option, I feel obligated to comply... It's a bit hard to do those things when the hand only closes about half way before I start whimpering... And buttoning them with the left would kind of work, except I can't even hold the fabric with the right to "aim"... So for the next week or so, until the pain receedes I'm playing it safe...
Thanks for the information on the CBR wheel. Having the same spacing and disc location should make this much easier, if I go that route. I will look everything up on RonAyers.
Good luck with the injuries. It looks like the wife has the better hand for the moment LOL. I've been in similar situations numerous times myself and temporally they have additional power over you and they use it like a surgeon would use a scalpel .
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Old 12-24-2011, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by D VTR RIDER View Post
Good luck with the injuries. It looks like the wife has the better hand for the moment LOL. I've been in similar situations numerous times myself and temporally they have additional power over you and they use it like a surgeon would use a scalpel .
Scalpel? Try 5 pound hammer, or nuclear missile... My girl is on a bit a power trip... Lol... I do get some perks though, so I'm fine... No doing dishes, no chores, no carrying stuff...
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Old 12-24-2011, 04:15 AM
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To lighten my rear rim, I drilled a series of 3/4 inch holes around it. But now, for some reason, my rear tire keeps going flat. Stupid Honda!
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Old 12-24-2011, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by sheldonsl View Post
To lighten my rear rim, I drilled a series of 3/4 inch holes around it. But now, for some reason, my rear tire keeps going flat. Stupid Honda!
Sounds to me like that isn't the only thing that is a little on the light side! LFU
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Old 12-24-2011, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sheldonsl View Post
To lighten my rear rim, I drilled a series of 3/4 inch holes around it. But now, for some reason, my rear tire keeps going flat. Stupid Honda!
Silly, you're supposed to drill the holes AFTER you've put the tire on and ridden it around for a bit. That way centripetal force holds the air in.
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Old 12-24-2011, 07:46 AM
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Centripetal? We don't have that kind of stuff where I'm from.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:05 AM
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I decided to do my own testing (measurements and weight) on the option to change the rear wheel of a 05 CBR1000RR on to VTR1000F OEM swing arm.
I’m not going to get into 100% exact details, but I will try to give you the best results so you will understand this potential modification pro’s and con’s. The weight may not be accurate to the grams and assuming that calibration is correct more or less.

Rear wheel with an average street sport tire, hub with OEM rear sprocket and rubber dumpers, plus all 3 bearings and inner spacers as a complete unit weight a followed:
* VTR1000F - 34.9 lb or 15.8 kg
* CBR1000RR - 33.2 lb or 15 kg

Wheels without the hub and the dumpers:
* VTR1000F - 28.9 lb or 13.1 kg
* CBR1000R – 28.5 lb or 12.9 kg

Take into account:
1. An average sport tire both sizes weighs about 11.8 lb or 5.35 kg more or less by a fraction
2. CBR OEM Rotor is lighter weight shaved on the inner section
3. CBR OEM Bearings are lighter as well
4. CBR OEM Hub is significantly lighter then the VTR Hub

You basically only getting lighter by less then 2 pounds or less then one Kilogram on the rear wheel, not much of a diet if you ask me, you do gain bigger size wheel 6” with 190 tire instead of 5.5” with 180 tire, that if you like the looks, as for performance, if you are not a racer you will not feel much of a difference because of the bigger size, some people say that it will reduce your ability to lean into the turn, but this size wheel also makes the rear of the bike to go higher a bit, as such, you change the geometry of the bike and that compensates on the reduction of lean ability.

Here is another factor you have to consider before you think about this modification:
There are two ways of fitting the CBR wheel into the VTR swing arm.
1. Using the OEM VTR axle you will need to replace all 3 bearings on the CBR wheel and hub (you cannot use VTR hub), cut the inner and outer spacer to fit (highly recommend doing that on a CNC, not by hand).
2. Using the CBR axle and CBR hub and all the spacers which it is probably the easier modification, you will need to drill the swing arm and rear brake caliper bracket with bigger holes by 4mm and you will need to spread the swing arm by at list 2mm to make it fit without cutting the outer spacers, in addition, due to the longer axle of the CBR you should add additional spacers on the outside of the swing arm so you can lock the wheel correctly, potentially you can cut the CBR chain adjuster spacers to the shape of the VTR chain adjusters an use them for this purpose.

BTW, the sprockets do align almost perfectly so no worries on that part.

CBR600RR rear wheel maybe a lighter choice, but I don’t have one to test with.

The biggest question, is it worth the money you going to spend on the parts and the work you will need to do to fit the wheel?
That is totally up to you!

Last edited by NHSH; 05-26-2015 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:23 AM
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Your best bet is to find a lighter tire. Some of them are really light. I think I read the Pilot Pure has like a 2lb savings over most of the others. It's been a while and can't remember where I read it though.

...or fill the tires with helium.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:30 AM
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Yep, I was right. Memory's not going as quickly as I thought....

Linky --> Late Braking: Michelin Power Pure - Sport Rider Magazine
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:14 AM
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Nice, this is a good one.
I like the Helium you suggested earlier
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:34 AM
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Well, switching to a 6" rim does not automatically mean you need to use a 190 tire... You can mount a 180 tire to the 6" rim since most manufacturer recommends it for 5.5"-6" rims... That keeps the weight down, and it keeps the lean angles the same as stock...

In your numbers did you account for the 190 tire with added weight? If so, just re-calculate with the weight of the 180 tire... It might be "average" wieght, but in real life, for the same brand the difference in weight for 180-190 is usually ~.75 kg (that's true for both PP2CT and PowerPure, I can't say for others out of personal experience) meaning the total difference on the CBR 1000RR with a 180 tire should end up at around ~1.5 kg...

The CBR 600RR wheel is 5.5" just like the stock VTR wheel, but with the lighter construction of the CBR 1000RR, so it should be the lightest of them all... With less material on the rim due to it being smaller, I'd guess the total difference will be slightly more than 2 kg... And that's a difference...
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
Well, switching to a 6" rim does not automatically mean you need to use a 190 tire... You can mount a 180 tire to the 6" rim since most manufacturer recommends it for 5.5"-6" rims... That keeps the weight down, and it keeps the lean angles the same as stock...

In your numbers did you account for the 190 tire with added weight? If so, just re-calculate with the weight of the 180 tire... It might be "average" wieght, but in real life, for the same brand the difference in weight for 180-190 is usually ~.75 kg (that's true for both PP2CT and PowerPure, I can't say for others out of personal experience) meaning the total difference on the CBR 1000RR with a 180 tire should end up at around ~1.5 kg...

The CBR 600RR wheel is 5.5" just like the stock VTR wheel, but with the lighter construction of the CBR 1000RR, so it should be the lightest of them all... With less material on the rim due to it being smaller, I'd guess the total difference will be slightly more than 2 kg... And that's a difference...
I took average between 180-190 as the CBR wheel was 190/50 lower profile and the VTR was 180/55 same brand tire. Your count of 2 kg less for the CBR600RR was what I suspect also. With a lighter tire you may shave even more.
As for the 6" with 180 it does make the tire also more usable to the edge for street riding.

Just curiosity, doe's any one know what is the true weight of the magnesium Marchesini for VTR with Bearings and all...??? or any data to compare?
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Old 01-09-2012, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawkrider View Post
Yep, I was right. Memory's not going as quickly as I thought....

Linky --> Late Braking: Michelin Power Pure - Sport Rider Magazine
Greg, that's 1kg per pair! "This reduction in belt plies when married to the newest synthetic silica-infused tire compounds saves a whopping 1kg (or 2.2 pounds) in total weight savings per pair of Power Pure tires when compared to comparable sets from Pirelli, Bridgestone, and Dunlop. This is a considerable weight reduction that pays huge dividends in handling terms."

Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
Well, switching to a 6" rim does not automatically mean you need to use a 190 tire... You can mount a 180 tire to the 6" rim since most manufacturer recommends it for 5.5"-6" rims... That keeps the weight down, and it keeps the lean angles the same as stock...

In your numbers did you account for the 190 tire with added weight? If so, just re-calculate with the weight of the 180 tire... It might be "average" wieght, but in real life, for the same brand the difference in weight for 180-190 is usually ~.75 kg (that's true for both PP2CT and PowerPure, I can't say for others out of personal experience) meaning the total difference on the CBR 1000RR with a 180 tire should end up at around ~1.5 kg...

The CBR 600RR wheel is 5.5" just like the stock VTR wheel, but with the lighter construction of the CBR 1000RR, so it should be the lightest of them all... With less material on the rim due to it being smaller, I'd guess the total difference will be slightly more than 2 kg... And that's a difference...
Markus, it would be interesting to know the exact amount lost for sure but if its only 1kg then a lighter tire (albeit one more susceptible to punctures and of significantly less longevity if not more grip) would make more sense that a conversion. For 2kg, then a swap may make sense. Then again, if I lost 10kg of my own mass I bet even my trusty but well worn 72k mile VTR would spin up a lot faster LOL.

And heal up fast.

Last edited by skokievtr; 01-09-2012 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 01-09-2012, 02:57 PM
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My 2 cents is that there is a CBR900 rear wheel on Ebay just look for 97,98 CBR under parts and accesories subset chassis and suspension and if not there click on more and it brings up specific categories with wheels and tires click on it and it almost at the top for $150usd.
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Old 01-09-2012, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by skokievtr View Post
Greg, that's 1kg per pair! "This reduction in belt plies when married to the newest synthetic silica-infused tire compounds saves a whopping 1kg (or 2.2 pounds) in total weight savings per pair of Power Pure tires when compared to comparable sets from Pirelli, Bridgestone, and Dunlop. This is a considerable weight reduction that pays huge dividends in handling terms."



Markus, it would be interesting to know the exact amount lost for sure but if its only 1kg then a lighter tire (albeit one more susceptible to punctures and of significantly less longevity if not more grip) would make more sense that a conversion. For 2kg, then a swap may make sense. Then again, if I lost 10kg of my own mass I bet even my trusty but well worn 72k mile VTR would spin up a lot faster LOL.

And heal up fast.
1 Kg for the pair, means that about .75 Kg for the rear, and .25 Kg for the front seems reasonable... So, take the .8 for the CBR 1000RR rear and you get 1.55 Kg... Now, since we are comparing the 180 tire to the one you already have on there, which should be a 180, that's a straight comparasion... The same for the front would by estimation be ~.5 Kg or so, so around 2 Kg's for a full pair, running Pilot Pure tires on CBR 1000RR rims... The 600RR rear rim is lighter, since it's .5" narrower out of the exact same material and type of construction... Best guess, another ~.5 Kg or soo... So we are already past 2 Kg's for the full pair...

The Pure's aren't any more susceptible to a punture than any other tire as far as I know... I have run them since they where introduced, and I'm now on my second rear, the front is probably due for swapping as soon as I get it out of winter storage... That's the same mileage as I got with the PP2CT's, and I have more grip than with those... I'm happy...

On another note... If you want to reduce weight, swapping the swingarm is one thing for geometry... Another thing entirely on the issue of weight... The stock one is 7 Kg heavier than the SP2 arm... Just saying... It's a block of flexible lead....

BTW, stitches are out, the cast is coming off in a few days, and I can dress myself... The hand is sore still, but operational... And with less pain in my foot, I'm already sneaking off when the little lady isn't looking...

The downside is that I got stuck with doing dishes last night, since I was free of bandages entirely...

Last edited by Tweety; 01-09-2012 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
So we are already past 2 Kg's for the full pair...

Still, 2 kgs versus 10 off the pilot, no comparison without considering the health gains that promote better response and control

The Pure's aren't any more susceptible to a punture than any other tire as far as I know...They have to be more easily punctured given 2 less aramid belt plies AND a thinner layer of exterior rubber That's the same mileage as I got with the PP2CT's, and I have more grip than with those... I'm happy... Which is how may miles (for us metric challenged) before squaring off?

On another note... If you want to reduce weight, swapping the swingarm is one thing for geometry... Another thing entirely on the issue of weight... The stock one is 7 Kg heavier than the SP2 arm... Just saying... It's a block of flexible lead.... I've had the VTR (SH) swing arm off and I can't believe its too much more than 9 kgs; so how can it be 7 kg more the the SP2's? And anyway, its carefully tuned-to-flex extruded and cast lead assembly LOL

BTW, stitches are out, the cast is coming off in a few days, and I can dress myself... The hand is sore still, but operational... And with less pain in my foot, I'm already sneaking off when the little lady isn't looking...

The downside is that I got stuck with doing dishes last night, since I was free of bandages entirely...
Even after my shoulder surgery with bandages and had to wear a brace thingy for 5 weeks, SWMBO (refer to "Keeping Up Appearances") would not lift a finger for me unless someone was watching. And don't they have automatic dishwashers in Sveden?

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Old 01-10-2012, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by skokievtr View Post
Still, 2 kgs versus 10 off the pilot, no comparison without considering the health gains that promote better response and control

No doubt, but I have no 10 Kg to spare, I just worked the last 5 offending ones off...

Originally Posted by skokievtr View Post
They have to be more easily punctured given 2 less aramid belt plies AND a thinner layer of exterior rubber ... Which is how may miles (for us metric challenged) before squaring off?


My rears usually last for roughly 6-8k Km, ie roughly 4k miles, and my fronts usually last a bit longer, around 8-10k...

Originally Posted by skokievtr View Post
I've had the VTR (SH) swing arm off and I can't believe its too much more than 9 kgs; so how can it be 7 kg more the the SP2's? And anyway, its carefully tuned-to-flex extruded and cast lead assembly LOL


Actually, I can't look at my notes currently, so I can't say the exact numbers... But I can tell you that the stock one is nearly twice the weight of the SP2 swing... I nearly threw it through the roof the first time I picked it up... It's some kind of honeycomb structure, so the difference is ridiculous...

Originally Posted by skokievtr View Post
Even after my shoulder surgery with bandages and had to wear a brace thingy for 5 weeks, SWMBO (refer to "Keeping Up Appearances") would not lift a finger for me unless someone was watching. And don't they have automatic dishwashers in Sveden?
Well, yeah... But i you can fit one in our current kitchen let me know... I walk in, and back out... God forbid I try to turn around, then I get stuck...
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Old 01-10-2012, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
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No doubt, but I have no 10 Kg to spare, I just worked the last 5 offending ones off...

Good for you but let me know what U weigh in about 25+ years and your my age, and after worrying about 3 kids, a wife of 31+ years, the house worth less than the remaining mortgage, and trying to get out from behind a computer over 35 years let alone trying to put bread on the table (lunch at McDonalds for $3 is hard to beat if not that healthy). No excuses but after my bicycle crash and recovery I have not peddled much since.




My rears usually last for roughly 6-8k Km, ie roughly 4k miles, and my fronts usually last a bit longer, around 8-10k...

As funds are short I need tires that stick pretty well but last 6~8k miles in the rear & + that in front...so weight be dammed.



Actually, I can't look at my notes currently, so I can't say the exact numbers... But I can tell you that the stock one is nearly twice the weight of the SP2 swing... I nearly threw it through the roof the first time I picked it up... It's some kind of honeycomb structure, so the difference is ridiculous...

I believe it but it sounds like a lot of work to fit one and then the geometry is off cuz I like the feel I have now with my Penske

[COLOR=red][COLOR=#000000]

Well, yeah... But i you can fit one in our current kitchen let me know... I walk in, and back out... God forbid I try to turn around, then I get stuck...
Here in the good old USA everything over the last 50+ years is bigger. Our kitchen is comparatively not that large but has room for a DW, frig & oven/range plus adequate counter space and a table that seats 6.

Have not U spent a fair amount of time here? Bigger is better, just ask our belt-lines.

Q: What do U call a person that speaks 3 languages? A: Trilingual

Q: What do U call a person that speaks 2 languages? A: Bilingual

Q: What do U call a person that speaks only 1 language? A: An American
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Old 01-10-2012, 11:28 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by sheldonsl View Post
To lighten my rear rim, I drilled a series of 3/4 inch holes around it. But now, for some reason, my rear tire keeps going flat. Stupid Honda!
You know I bought a Rear Hugger, and since I have installed it I still have felt No Love, No hugs, No anything.......
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:06 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by skokievtr View Post
Here in the good old USA everything over the last 50+ years is bigger. Our kitchen is comparatively not that large but has room for a DW, frig & oven/range plus adequate counter space and a table that seats 6.

Have not U spent a fair amount of time here? Bigger is better, just ask our belt-lines.

Q: What do U call a person that speaks 3 languages? A: Trilingual

Q: What do U call a person that speaks 2 languages? A: Bilingual

Q: What do U call a person that speaks only 1 language? A: An American
Well, I tend to wear my tires pretty hard... So most sane people would probably get at worst 6k miles out of the rear, and better out of the front... BTW those miles of mine include at least 1k of semi-hard track riding...

Well, I'm currently in an apartment that makes your kitchen seem like a mansion... House is forthcoming...

So, last count 7 languages (or more, depending on the level required, 6 are fluent), so whaddaya call me?!
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