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Feeler: Group buy of HRC-replica ECUs?

Old 09-12-2011, 06:57 AM
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Feeler: Group buy of HRC-replica ECUs?

Hello,

Just wondering how many of you would be interested in forking out some cash (current estimates would run at @ $200-300) for some aftermarket programmable ECUs (fit only for pre-2000 VTRs AFAIK) loaded with the HRC ignition map?

As anyone who has tried to pick up an actual HRC ECU knows, these are extremely rare and all but impossible to find nowadays. However, there is a possibility that we could get the same end result (ie. more power, quicker response) by going this alternate route.

Let me know if you are interested as I am (we are) are trying to get a feel for the level of interest.

As always, tire kickers and naysayers please refrain. I want this thread to stay on track as this is a serious project that I am trying to put together.

cheers
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Old 09-12-2011, 08:13 AM
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Go microsquirt
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Old 09-12-2011, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by zmaniv View Post
Go microsquirt
AFAIK microsquirt has nothing to do with this...

mikstr, I take it you have found a way to get the HRC data for the IgniTech CDI? If so, can you share the data?

Also, there should be a IgniTech CDI available for the post 2001 VTR's too, but I could be wrong...
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Old 09-12-2011, 09:53 AM
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from microsquirt website


The main differences between MicroSquirt® EFI controllers and MegaSquirt-II™ controllers are the ignition input and output polarities, the injector drivers, MAP sensor, the FIdle capabilities, VR circuit, and connectors:
  1. Dual Spark capability: The major new feature in MicroSquirt® v2.822 embedded code is the capability to use two inputs and two outputs for ignition
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Old 09-12-2011, 10:25 AM
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This is not a Microsquirt project but Ignitech.

In so far as getting the info to you Markus, I do not have it yet as I don`t have an HRC box (but am working on some possible leads). I am essentially gauging interest as well as looking to see if it can even be done (e-mail has been sent to Ignitech).

In the end, it may amount to nothing but it will surely go nowhere if no effort is made to get it done......
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Old 09-12-2011, 10:39 AM
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Call me crazy but I think looking at converting the carbs to EFI would bring huge grins to everyone. Replacing worn out parts on carbs right now is going to be about 200 for me right now and then I will have to do it all over again in another couple of years. Used rc51 throttle bodies can be had for about that much. Just need to get a FI computer (microsquirt) and a fuel pump to make it all work.
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Old 09-12-2011, 10:58 AM
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I'd like to stick with my carbs (giant ones at that). I would be interested, and could perhaps even help out with the process. Keep me in mind!
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Old 09-12-2011, 11:27 AM
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I like my carbs to be honest and, while I can appreciate that some may want to go the FI route, I personally have no intention to changing. This project aims strictly to revamp teh ignition curve to help optimize the carb`s engine`s output......
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:15 PM
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where have you been trying to find HRC map information? I've never dealt with ignition maps to tell you the truth, not sure what is involved with it. However, I could be of use if I could get a glance at a stock IG curve for a 98+ hawk. Does anyone have any power specs/capabilities on the stock CDI?
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:33 PM
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This is the stock info:

Feeler: Group buy of HRC-replica ECUs?-30665_1454003795065_1382402328_1172709_8090541_n.jpg

Rama was able to get the info and posted it in this thread (where I stole the posted chart....)

https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...52/#post268061

As for the HRC numbers...... don't have that info.....yet
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:40 PM
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muahahahahahahahahahahahahah
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Old 09-12-2011, 02:10 PM
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thanks I will check it out and try to understand
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Old 09-12-2011, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by zmaniv View Post
Call me crazy but I think looking at converting the carbs to EFI would bring huge grins to everyone. Replacing worn out parts on carbs right now is going to be about 200 for me right now and then I will have to do it all over again in another couple of years. Used rc51 throttle bodies can be had for about that much. Just need to get a FI computer (microsquirt) and a fuel pump to make it all work.
I think that you will also find that EFI camshafts are very different to aspirated(carby) camshafts and they would need to be changed too.
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Old 09-12-2011, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by PappySmears View Post
I think that you will also find that EFI camshafts are very different to aspirated(carby) camshafts and they would need to be changed too.
Why would you need to change cam shafts if you had a fully programable EFI box to deliver the correct ammount of fuel?
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Old 09-12-2011, 05:00 PM
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Just from past auto experience, a EFI camshaft does not have the same split or duration as a Carb cam, as manifold vaccum is not as important.
I believe there is a difference between tuning it to run well, and extracting performance, which would be the sole reason I would expect anyone to move to injection.
It would seem a bit silly to fit up a whole injection set up to a Carb motor and not expect some decent HP gains.
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Old 09-12-2011, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 8541Hawk View Post
This is the stock info:

Attachment 12453

Rama was able to get the info and posted it in this thread (where I stole the posted chart....)

https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...52/#post268061

As for the HRC numbers...... don't have that info.....yet
so im dumb, what do those numbers represent?
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Old 09-12-2011, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jay956 View Post
so im dumb, what do those numbers represent?
That particular MAP is that of our stock ignition advance and what the degree of advance is at any given throttle to RPM ratio. This produces the optimal acceleration for an engine (aka best performance). HRC then went ahead and created their own map with their optimal running conditions (without EPA breathing down their neck and various other considerations).

Now a pertinent question; what kind of modifications are going to best utilize this HRC map? Because that bike had a how shall we say... sizeable quantity of mods done to it, and while yes, some is good, in that same way, too much is the opposite. In other words, if this were done to an otherwise stock engine, would it cause any problems or would it otherwise help any pre-'00 engine?

And IIRC, high comp. (which I think you're running???) and high degree of advance is good because you're going to be running higher octane gas, while not everyone on the forum will be, I guess that's my main concern before I throw my name in the melting pot.

And whether it'd be okay to use with a +4FP advance. =)
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Old 09-13-2011, 12:43 AM
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jay956, bass4dude, the posted numbers are STOCK... Ie that's what your bikes are running now...

The HRC data is for now non-existant... The data still needs to be extracted out of a HRC box...

As for what it does... It advances more on lower RPM, so there will likely be some gains on a bone stock engine, but at the expense of fuel mileage... On a tuned engine, say Stage 1, the gains will be more noticable, and the loss of mileage vs stock box will probably be less... All conjecture, but rather well founded on facts...

And the good part about doing this with a programmable aftermarket box, is that once you start with the HRC numbers, you can tweak them on a dyno to suit your particular bike... And the Ignitech box has the option to select the sidestand switch on or off, and a selectable limiter... So basically, set it up the way you like...
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Old 09-13-2011, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by PappySmears View Post
Just from past auto experience, a EFI camshaft does not have the same split or duration as a Carb cam, as manifold vaccum is not as important.
I believe there is a difference between tuning it to run well, and extracting performance, which would be the sole reason I would expect anyone to move to injection.
It would seem a bit silly to fit up a whole injection set up to a Carb motor and not expect some decent HP gains.
EFI engines typically do have other numbers on cams, yes... That's part of why the EFI bikes can get nominally more power AND mileage... On a carbed bike you usually get either period... So swapping on an EFI, you can probably still only get on of the two, unless you swap out cams and a lot of other stuff... All parts of the engine is balanced against each other...
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Old 09-13-2011, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
jay956, bass4dude, the posted numbers are STOCK... Ie that's what your bikes are running now...

The HRC data is for now non-existant... The data still needs to be extracted out of a HRC box...

As for what it does... It advances more on lower RPM, so there will likely be some gains on a bone stock engine, but at the expense of fuel mileage... On a tuned engine, say Stage 1, the gains will be more noticable, and the loss of mileage vs stock box will probably be less... All conjecture, but rather well founded on facts...

And the good part about doing this with a programmable aftermarket box, is that once you start with the HRC numbers, you can tweak them on a dyno to suit your particular bike... And the Ignitech box has the option to select the sidestand switch on or off, and a selectable limiter... So basically, set it up the way you like...
and the only thing I can add is no, you do not want to run a FP +4 advancer with an HRC box.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:22 PM
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I currently run a HRC Ignition Module on my 1998 VTR, this is the second one I have owned, (this is the second VTR that I have owned so when I got this VTR it was imperative for me to find an HRC Ignition Module becasue I knowhow good it performed on my first VTR),

with the HRC Ignition Module you get an 1000 rpm increase in your engine rpm's (redline is now 10500 as opposed to 9500) and 4' of ignition advance and no sidestand ignition cutoff when the side stand is down while in gear,

the HRC Module gives you a definitive "hit" at 5500rpm's and pulls fast and smooth all the way to its 10500 redline, the rev limiter is "soft" and will over rev on downshifts and can cause problems like floating the valves, I know, I found out the hard way.

all in all, I too tried to track down an HRC Ignition Module when I got this second VTR, I went through Big Valley Honda with no luck but I did get the late Bob Hyashida's phone # and gave him a call, he said he didn't have and didn't know where to get one, then a couple of day's later he called me back and asked if I really wanted one, well hell yes, Bob actually had one, an authentic HRC Module and I asked him about the identification markings on the unit and they were complete, Bob sold me the unit for $400 which works perfectly with my ported heads and hi-comp engine.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by 2whltuner View Post
the HRC Module gives you a definitive "hit" at 5500rpm's and pulls fast and smooth all the way to its 10500 redline, the rev limiter is "soft" and will over rev on downshifts and can cause problems like floating the valves, I know, I found out the hard way.

Well as someone who has also run one I do have to disagree with your statements.

First would be the "red-line" or "rev-limiter" points.
First the "red-line" is just a paint mark on the tach face, so it really doesn't have much relevance here.

Now the stock ignition had the rev-limiter set at 10.3K and by the info Tweety just posted where he had his engine up to 11.3K with no rev-limiter hit along with my personally taking a engine with a HRC box to around 10.7K before I chickened out, it has pretty much been determined that they is no rev-limiter function in a HRC ignition.

Even if there does happen to be one, it is not at 10.5K RPM.

Otherwise, yeah they do work pretty good.
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Old 09-13-2011, 08:35 PM
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I'm actually not going to be able to do this, I just picked up an SP1 so the VTR is for sale
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Old 09-14-2011, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by nothing View Post
I'm actually not going to be able to do this, I just picked up an SP1 so the VTR is for sale
good news and bad news. In both cases, we need pics.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:17 PM
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I am mildly interested in a group buy at this time. There are many details to iron out I'm sure, but I am quite eager to see how this pans out.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:27 PM
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Thanks. Indeed there are details but I will keep you posted. At this time, I am still waiting on a reply from Ignitech. Hopefully that won't be too long in coming....
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:35 AM
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Sign o' life

FYI, I finally got a quick reply from Jan at Ignitech. He stated that he will give me a full answer next week.

cheers
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
jay956, bass4dude, the posted numbers are STOCK... Ie that's what your bikes are running now...
but what do the numbers actually represent? i know its timing, is it degrees before tdc or something?
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Old 09-15-2011, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jay956 View Post
but what do the numbers actually represent? I know its timing, is it degrees before tdc or something?
Well the way to read the chart is first you have RPM from left to right a crossed the top and then you have throttle position (from the TPS sensor) from top to bottom on the left side.

So what the numbers represent is the firing pulse BTDC calculated by looking at both the RPM and throttle position.
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Old 09-15-2011, 01:19 PM
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cool thats what i thought. thanks for dealing with my ignorance lol.
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