8541Hawk

If you noticed I did state you need to upgrade the master cyl.
Running a mismatched system that isn't bled properly is going to work like ***** and gives you no idea how well a properly set up system will work.

Just_Nick

I'm going to be running a single caliper, that's why I haven't gotten a different master.

8541Hawk

That's a lot of bike to try and stop with only one caliper.

mikstr

but some of those big Hogs only use one rotor..... and they`re REAL motorcycles, not cheap Jap imitations, lol

easton24

Are rc 51 brakes a bolt on exchange without any mods? Or do you have to have the rc51 front end and wheels?

Crashrat

From what I understand, you need to do a bit of grinding on the fork leg or caliper itself, but it's more or less a bolt on as are some GSXR 6p calipers.

If he can keep the weight of the bike down, I think a single caliper will work. It's been done and documented on this forum somewhere. A lot of fairly modern non-sporty bikes -- Nighthawk, Magna, Bonnie, T-Birds -- use single 2p calipers and weigh around 500lbs. My Buell stopped fine on one 6p and weighed about what the SH does.

It should be interesting, anyhow...

R.

Just_Nick

ZRX1100 and 1200 will both stop in a hurry with a single rotor and caliper and they weigh 550 pounds without a rider.

killer5280

Which ZRX has only one rotor and caliper?

Just_Nick

The drag racer ones.

killer5280

That's a different animal.

scatterbrained

Just a few notes for those who are interested in modifying their front end but may not have much experience with different brake setups. One thing I noticed right away when I first got on my hawk was how touchy they were at low speed. Of course that touchiness did not translate into high speed confidence. After riding a GSXR 750 that was track prepped for several years the hawk brakes were a letdown. The brakes are at best lackluster when the bike is being ridden in anger. Granted the whole bike is "nervous" I guess would be the best word when the pace is pushed through the twisties.
Flushing the brakes, installing braided stainless lines and new pads did much for the overall feel of the brakes but the rears still suck horribly and the fronts are still lightyears behind my GSXR for feel and consistency. Brake fade however has not been an issue on the street. On thing I have noticed among riders is that many people never flush their brake fluid. This alone could help with brake feel and reduce/prevent fade. Steel lines that don't flex will improve lever feel and a new master cylinder will improve modulation. I see no reason to push for a race ready brake setup on a hawk. If you know what you're doing you can get a master cylinder and calipers off e-bay that will do everything you could ask a brake setup for. Superbike race level brakes are worthless on a chassis that cannot maintain that level of pace.

scatterbrained

One other thing. Numbers don't lie but your butt does. Without subjective numbers it's impossible to be sure if you have improved something just by riding it. I've ridden bikes that felt fast but were ultimately slower than bikes that felt slower from the saddle. Chassis setup and initial feel can alter your perception of something without improving the performance. Grabby brakes can feel stronger while giving you longer braking distance than smoother actuating brakes. Aggressive throttle programming can make an engine feel faster than it is while a smoother powerband will go faster while feeling slower.
Perceptions alone cannot be trusted.

trinc

i did the same thing as tweety.

PO did the brake line swap but left everything else stock. i swapped pads, trying various brands and found the EBC HH pads a pretty good setup.

i was doing trackdays ( & getting faster ) and needed to reduce the fade and increase the feel.
i first mounted a 5/8 MC and it was big improvement on lever travel and thus increased the 'feel' ( a long travel always seems to have a zone where your braking isn't increasing / decreasing ).

although i think the EBC HH pad is a good street pad and probably perfect for a majority of riders they just don't work well when HOT. all my friends rav about the Vesrah pads but they are n/a for the superhawk. so... i went to f4 calipers just so i could run Vesrah pads. as i've said b4, they don't have the initial bite the EBC's have but they are consistant all day long.. HOT or COLD.

i imagine that if they still made the RJL pads for the 'hawk, the stock calipers would do fine, but i'll never know.

tim

mikstr

I am currently running HRC hard bite pads and absolutely LOVE them. However, they are quite pricey so I will likely go with Vesrah RJL`s next time around as they come very highly recommended from many people.

Just_Nick

That are used also on the street.

killer5280

I guess it depends on what you're after.

Just_Nick

They are after less rotating mass with minimal braking power losses.
I simply and limited to a single caliper because of the nature of bikes.

Crashrat

I like the looks of a single caliper -- it just looks cleaner to me.

BTW: The Daytona 955i calipers don't match up to our fork legs at all... they measure 85mm eyelet to eyelet and ours are 60mm.

I used to have a source for new Nissin master cylinders. I had to buy one for the Cyclone since the system was filled up with what looked like KY when I bought the bike. I rebuild the caliper, but didn't know what sort of fluid was in the system so wanted to start it dry.... Anyhow, I paid $100 (or there abouts) for a NEW master when you usually see them for $40 up used on Ebay.

I know it's here somewhere, but is this a 5/8 master?

R.

pwolski

Hi guys. This is my first post. I am on my second Superhawk (2003, 5k miles for $2600 off Ebay that is decent other then some stupid punk work done on it) that I just got a month ago. I was never happy with the brakes on my first one and without help of the forum upgraded them with sslines and pads. The result was o.k. With my new one I did the F4i swap (entire 2003 system for so little I forget how much it was but around $30). Now I have brakes. Love the feel and stopping power. Next HH pads and ss lines (on my first bike I use Galfer but was not impressed with the quality or fit of the kit, two of my fittings had metal burrs inside them and I did not like the amount of twist the lines had to be installed with) .

Next I have to jet the carb (running super lean, guy before me drilled out the pipes and most likely put in air filter since the tank bushings were missing) the bike hates partial throttle and it back fires all the time. Both the soft front end and the stiff shock have to go. I need to fix my turn signals that were butchered by the guy before me. And finally move off my little island where I live now get on my bike and go ride.

Thanks for all the information you share here.

easton24

Hey PWOLSKI were the f4i calipers and mc bolt on the vtr front end with no modifications?

lazn

No, you need to grind them.. there are tons of threads on this.

lazn

Welcome to the forum, though it is usually best to start a new thread to introduce yourself rather than take an existing one off topic.

pwolski

O.k. newt to forums as well.

killer5280

And we demand pictures of your Super Hawk, too.

nath981

+1 although i believe you meant to say w/o objective numbers, it's impossible..........Kaz Yoshima would also agree wholeheartedly with what you say.

Jan10 SportRider, p64.
www.docmc.net

this guy is on the road to unravel a lot of the mystery created by individual/subjective perceptions.

RCVTR

Lock the front?!!

This should never happen! The brakes need to be applied progressively, as the weight transfers forward.

The limit of braking power is the rear wheel lifting off the ground - not front tire traction.

RCVTR

Sorry Tweety - I should have read what you wrote more carefully.

RC51 brakes are quite good. I changed brakes when I changed front ends - which I did to put better legs under it with a modified engine.

With the stock brakes, I had to brake for all I was worth on the back straight at Thunderhill, wondering if I would get slowed down for the corner - in large part because I was new to the track at the time. Brake rotors were completely black at the end of the day. I did a couple more days with the stock front end.

The first time I grabbed the brakes for that same corner with an RC51 front end, the back end started to wag back and forth, because it was unweighted. With more power comes better modulation and braking was far less anxiety producing after that. I was able to take it to the point of lifting the rear and keep it under control.

Bob Hayashida had a set of Brembo brakes for his RC51 race bike. He told me he would put them on for pictures, but when it came time to race, he ran the stock brakes and rotors, with HRC pads.

killer5280

Yeah, but subjective improvements ain't necessarily so. It was all in your mind.

mikstr

yep, smoke and mirrors, man....

RCVTR

I don't need to take measurements to know RC51 brakes are a vast improvement over stock, as all who have made the switch, have said.

I think the front end and brake swap together were the best modifications I made, especially for track days. I never needed as much brake on the street.

A set of light wheels would have been the ultimate. Is it spring, yet?