Erik S.

As a father, and having a little age under my belt (I'll be 35 in April, a little age), it's been some time since I thought Pop was dumb. While I may not always see his underlying intentions, i've long since given up on thinking I knew more than him, or anyone elder to me for that matter.

Ahh, the beauty of the forum. Just when you think it's here solely for the purpose of talking about the bike we ride......

nath981

well yeah. the transfer of knowledge, wisdom and other forms of bullshit from past generations has largely become extinct in our american society. The gradual and pervasive evolution of the nuclear family as a direct replacement, indeed even a competitive entity, for the extended family which was typically the mechanism for the transfer of culture, values, mores, and as a tool for teaching new parents what childrearing is all about.

real extended families in non-melting pot cultures include a hierarchy of honor and respect for elders, a deferment of authority of sorts. Some vestiges of this remained even as late as my youth. We gathered for meals regurlarly, and with extended family often, and were required to sit and listen to stories and values and attitudes of those who came before us. These cultural mores are now effectively extinct and for this reason, we all are weaker and less as a people and, consequently, as a nation. Of course this all started when our ancestors waved goodbye to their extended families and left them forever, hence, the flaw of the melting pot, which was mistakenly and naively touted as the strength of this young country.

Alexis DeTouqueville paraphrase: "as long as amer is good, america will be great; we they cease to be good, they will cease to be great." Since the foundation of any society is the family unit, we're now witnessing the results of losing the extended family.

nath981

Humility is a good thing, and its a good thing to respect one's elders. Unfortunately, some people could live 200 years and still be stupid, so it's good to be perceptive enough to discriminate accurately.

L8RGYZ

Dang... sweet bike!

nath981

whenever you stop learning, you're either stupid or dead. It's not common in western cultures, but the most essential learning has to do with that which is inside you. Once you are able to understand, respect, discipline and love yourself, only then can you do likewise with others.

This is difficult and elusive, and even an anomoly, in a society that is based on superficial values like competition, appearance, wealth, and power, and never expends anything in terms of teaching it's members to look inward to find the answers.

RCVTR

I don't share your cycnicism. while what you say is true to a large extent, it doesn't apply to my family, or many of the families that I spend time with.

We sit down tegether for dinner every evening. My son, at 16 years old is very highly praised, admired and respected by the adults who meet him because he enjoys spending time and talking with his elders.

He is always willing to set his friends aside, when there is an opportunity for us to get out and ski, or ride bikes, or work on the car. He appreciates any opportunity like that to spend some time together, because he appreciates it for what it is.

His friends and their families are to a great extent the same way. I am always amazed by the great relationships these kids have with their families and their willingness to sit and talk to me, or slow down the pace a bit at the downhill park, so I can ride with them.

the parents are dedicated and the kids appreciate the dedication. I feel sorry for the many who don't have that, but it is still alive, if you look for it.

nath981

yeah thanks, and, in its day, it more than got the job done too. Never got to race the only Vincent Black Shadow in town, or even the other 650 SS Norton Bill Black did his majic on. Never cared much either as my main function (as designated) was to whip the snot out of those Harleys, and that it did consistently and convincingly.

The other fast Norton 650SS, which preceded my 750, was set to race the biggest baddest Harley to come out of the local Hog factory run by dealer/mechanic named Mike Fagan. Pete relayed the story of how Bill Black instructed John McGinley(now deceased), one of the most fearless riders I've had the pleasure of knowing and who got me started with bikes, not to run away from this particular Harley stroker he was about to race to the top of Cresson mountain. According to Pete, Bill Black told John that the Harley's rear cylinder would lean out and seize on hard, prolonged pulls, esp likely in hot weather. John was upset cause he wanted to embarass him and leave him for dead; contrary to his intentions, he listened to Black and restrained himself. He led the Harley by a small distance, luring the hog pilot(Lindy Longenecker i believe)to continue his pursuit upwards. I never did this myself. I just ran away and hid and they always gave up early. Of course, i never raced a hog up a long mountain either. Anyway, as Black predicted, a few miles of full throttle in the heat of summer up that long-*** mountain was sufficient to fry that Harley engine, leaving a jet trail of smoke as he pulled to the side in humiliating defeat. What a dirty trick, huh?

The ironic thing, according to Pete, is that several years later when Bill died, the Harley riders rode their bikes en masse as a sign of respect alongside all the european bike riders who attended the funeral. Although there was always fierce, intense, and sometimes angered competition, there was still that measure of respect in spite of it.

nath981

cool. that's the way it should be. Families should be tight, supportive and be there to help each other when needed. Watchin your back. And you're right, what I describe is not all inclusive, as evidenced with you and your friends' families. Also, many rural families still remain connected in the way you describe. And wealthy families stick around pretty close also, but we know the reasons for this scenario.

Of course, there are close families, but according to my experiences, demographics, and the mobile nature of this society, the nuclear family, that is the husband, wife and kids, is the norm and remain relatively autonomous, maintaining only platonic and sporadic relationships with extended family members. Indeed, many and possibly most boomers prefer their reduced role so they can play more golf or whatever in their later years, as in "I already did my job by raising my kids". So, in that regard, there is often mutual compliance in the independence of the nuclear family with minimal extended family influence and interactions.

I am indeed cynical relative to the extinction of the extended family unit because I believe it is fundamentally wrong. I also realize that there's nothing i can do about it, so for that reason, i don't give a **** about it. It's merely a realism that ultimately diminishes all of us as a society.

RCVTR

I know that you are right.

I just try to do the little bit that I can to point it in the right direction and try to keep a positive attitude about it - as difficult as that can be.

Pretty proud of my boy, though. My sister has good kids too.

nath981

believe me. I wish i weren't right in this case. it's good you have some good people around you. makes life more meaningful.

VTRsurfer

My reference to Speedos came from an old black and white photo from Bonneville, probably in the 50's. I've seen it several times. This guy is going flat out on the Salt Flats, I think he's on a British twin, and he's stretched out prone over the tank and seat with his feet sticking straight out the back, flat as a board, and he's wearing only Speedos.

That's so cool about your friend with CP. Many people think they are retarded just because their body is messed up.

Can't you get studded tires for winter riding? Ice racing tires would be overkill, but you'd probably have fewer people cutting you off when they see 2" spikes rotating towards them.

As for respecting elders...I see a decline in that area today. It's not like when I was a kid.

oahu hawk

that would be Rollie Free...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_i_AovfzNXg...-R/vincent.jpg

nath981

yeah the speedo, haha. I'm the eternal comedian. Can't pass up the opportunity for a joke. But now you know why I never made it as a comedian.

I'm so happy I took the time to spend with him at that time. Somehow I knew it was the right thing to do. talk about a rough life: he started out with CP, had a good engineering job in Harrisburg when he was diagnosed with a brain tumor. Put him on disability and several years later colon cancer. died at 50. And people whine about stupid ****, huh

studded tires: well I was just experimenting with winter riding. I bought some pieces of dog chain cut to 7", strapped them on with heavy plastic ties, and some with that white plastic clothes line which works well by the way. They work well and you can take em off in 5 min. just cut em off. Putting them on took about half hour. They work well in snow that's not to deep and not too heavy. Heavy deep snow plays havoc with front wheel. The real problem is when you fall off, trying to lift the bike as it slides sideways. Actually, i think big knobbies would work as well or better, but the chains do work and cost nada.

respect for elders: all I can say is that ageism is alive and well in America.

nath981

I was never laid out that far back and the norton usually became squirrely between 130 and 140, but not enough to quit, but that was when I was twenty something. hahahaha

Evidently, those Vincents were king of speed then.

VTRsurfer

Thanks oahu, that was longer ago than I thought. I was only 1 year 11 months old then.

Oh, and the right hand shift. My friend since high school had 2 Bultaco Pursangs in the early 70s, a 125 and a 250. He raced the 125 in motocross. I never raced, but I loved the 250...the 125 was too pipey for me. I guess that's why I love the SuperHawk. Since I didn't have a bike at the time, the right hand shifter wasn't a problem for me.

From the day we are born we're in the process of dying. I used to tell my students (mostly adults, so not child abuse) that one day the human species will no longer exist. That would cause their jaws to drop. Then I'd say, "Do you plan on living forever? Then make the most of the time you have, and respect the lives of others."

VTRsurfer

Evidently ATGATT didn't mean sh*t to Rollie.

Tweety

Actually you guys are missing the mark on this one... I'm not old enough to consider myself in that way quite yet (Although I'm getting there... ) But it has nothing to do with less respect for elders... It's just less respect period... And it's a global thing...

nath981

There's lots of respect and no evident ageism for the wealthy, movie stars, politicians, athletes(Bret Favre)and anyone with public notoriety; however, if you're mr. or mrs. normal, there is not only an absence of respect, but those young, aggressive, competitive, cut-throats are gonna consort, deceive, lie, and, in short, do everything possible to take you down, and females are the worst.

Tweety

I still think it's a lack of any respect for a person, on the rich & famous it just takes another form...

But scheesh, it didn't take you all these years to figure out that girls are more evil than boys did it?... Most guys figure that out in pre-school or there abouts...

nath981

well, in terms of respect, I would say you're right, because if you don't cultivate a respect for yourself that requires you to do what is right regardless of difficulty or inconvenience, and to do this you need to know your inner self, you will be incapable of a genuine respect for others.

Of course, when I write or speak, I'm not doing so in absolutes. I'm not that short sighted or egocentric. It's merely my opinion, albeit what I consider to be well founded(but not unchangeable), from my heart, and based on a value system that subtracts from a lifetime of learning (learning from others and subjected to the scrutiny of inward reflections), feelings, beliefs, and rationality, logic and common sense, but with the desired end being an attempt to reduce everything to right and wrong for the express purpose of guiding my actions.

Relative to respect, discipline, love, conscience, and other intangibles that must become actions or behaviors to be considered authentic, if they are not applied to self, they usually cannot be offered to others. If you don't love yourself, you can't love others because you haven't internalized the concept. Of course, it's not an all or nothing thing, but it's like most learning that occurs over time.

Preschool girls no, not that precocious. The women are more evil than men thing, which I've been aware at least since I was 20 when one significant action proved this, and this when i knew not the meaning of love. That action was the decision to marry the special lady I've known for 53 years and have been with for the past 47. I can remember my thinking then that if I was ever going to marry, it would have to be her because she was not like the others in one major way. She was and is the embodiment of the essence of love and for one that had not yet internalized the concept to realize that proves that there are occasions when even the blind are able to discern something.

It's a moot point anyway in a time when women are trying to be men and the resultant combination seems to be manifesting itself in the worst of both, and even changing the "men" in the process. An insidious de-evolution of sorts for the future of homo sapiens.

nath981

I asked pete about the engine and he said that that it's a ford flathead with Ardun heads. He said people paid from $12-30,000 for them. Converts flathead to overhead.
if you're not familiar, check the link below:

http://www.ardun.com/ardun_histrory.htm