Two diffene kind of cct.... why
Destructive Tester
Superstock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 263
From: N.E. oHIo
It is entirely possible that the Tech had the cylinder on TDC, but was 360 degrees of crankshaft rotation away from TDC compression. (A 4 stroke engine will be at TDC twice during the complete 4 stroke cycle, which requires 720 degrees of crankshaft rotation to complete.)
This would have put the engine in the "valve overlap" position where both the intake and exhaust valves are open and the cam chain is under tension from the valve springs.
At TDC compression both intake and exhaust valves in the cylinder are closed and the only tension on the cam chain is from the CCT.
At TDC compression there is no way the engine is going to jump time when the CCT is removed.
Rex
Last edited by bjorn toulouse; Oct 3, 2010 at 06:36 AM. Reason: speelage
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
It is entirely possible that the Tech had the cylinder on TDC, but was 360 degrees of crankshaft rotation away from TDC compression. (A 4 stroke engine will be at TDC twice during the complete 4 stroke cycle, which requires 720 degrees of crankshaft rotation to complete.)
This would have put the engine in the "valve overlap" position where both the intake and exhaust valves are open and the cam chain is under tension from the valve springs.
At TDC compression both intake and exhaust valves in the cylinder are closed and the only tension on the cam chain is from the CCT.
At TDC compression there is no way the engine is going to jump time when the CCT is removed.
Rex
This would have put the engine in the "valve overlap" position where both the intake and exhaust valves are open and the cam chain is under tension from the valve springs.
At TDC compression both intake and exhaust valves in the cylinder are closed and the only tension on the cam chain is from the CCT.
At TDC compression there is no way the engine is going to jump time when the CCT is removed.
Rex
Destructive Tester
Superstock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 263
From: N.E. oHIo
Please don't misinterpret my post as defending the actions of the Tech, as I think he (or the shop he works at) is most definitely "on the hook" for the repair of the OP's bike.
The point I'm trying to make is that the cylinder having a CCT replaced must be at TDC compression.
IMO, removing the cam cover is an unnecessary step. Removing the spark plug will let you hear the air being pushed out of the cylinder as the piston rises towards TDC on the compression stroke.
Rex
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
No worries, no misinterpretations here... 
Actually there is a more reliable and quick way on the VTR... One of the cam cover bolts makes a nice peephole for looking at the cams... One bolt and a flashlight...
Actually there is a more reliable and quick way on the VTR... One of the cam cover bolts makes a nice peephole for looking at the cams... One bolt and a flashlight...
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 84
From: Boca Raton FL
After week an half with out having my bike and the shop mess up rear clinder. They just realize that the bike is not genarateing certain Amount of pis. So now there telling they have to do the front clinder......
can someone give me idea what the hell he talk about
can someone give me idea what the hell he talk about
ride it out
SuperSport
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 745
From: NH
they probably did a compression test and you probably mean "psi" because when a compression test is performed the engine cranks and air builds up in the cylinder to a certain psi. not generating enough means that the cylinder is leaking because probably in this case there are likely more bent valves in the front cylinder.
the guy eff'ed up some more.
the guy eff'ed up some more.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,934
From: altoona, pa
Get a price and if okay just let them fix the dam thing now because who knows who fucked up what. The only other option is to pull it out and pay them and then find someone else, and that could be difficult, cost more time and money for who knows to what end.
Member
Squid
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 73
From: Louisville, KY
Remember stock is BAD!
SuperSport
SuperSport
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 760
From: Jacksonville FL
Given the caliber of the mechanic I wouldn't doubt that the front is messed up as a result of him 'working on" you bike.
I loves me twins
Superstock
Superstock
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 380
From: Houston, TX
There's some really good discussion here. 7moore7's description of his mom driving is a pretty good analogy to a inexperienced person trying to work on a bike. It's very much a mystery when you don't have any background of working on things, however the bike specific shop manual has done all the work for you already.
I always tell people that if you can cook something from reading a recipe then you should be able to fix something by reading a shop manual. The only thing you really need to learn after that are the finer details like feeling when threads start stretching/striping.
cel2620xl, don't go back to that shop again ok? Best of luck man, I hope you learn something useful from this.
I always tell people that if you can cook something from reading a recipe then you should be able to fix something by reading a shop manual. The only thing you really need to learn after that are the finer details like feeling when threads start stretching/striping.
cel2620xl, don't go back to that shop again ok? Best of luck man, I hope you learn something useful from this.
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 84
From: Boca Raton FL
im not pay them a dam thing . are you NUTs? They **** up, they fix. plain in simple......
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,934
From: altoona, pa
I am a little crazy and that's probably my best attribute.haha, But plain and simple remains to be seen. For your sake, I hope it is.
1. we only heard your side of this fiasco. I would like to here theirs also.
2. did you ever hear of a mechanic's lean?
3. they have forever to litigate this while your bike is locked in their shop and you may wind up paying for an attorney plus the bill.
4. do you really want someone who fucked up your bike doing anything mechanical to it?
5. do you want someone who you have an adversarial relationship with working on your bike and then billing you for that work?
Hopefully, you won't have to deal with any of these nightmares.
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 84
From: Boca Raton FL
I am a little crazy and that's probably my best attribute.haha, But plain and simple remains to be seen. For your sake, I hope it is.
1. we only heard your side of this fiasco. I would like to here theirs also.
2. did you ever hear of a mechanic's lean?
3. they have forever to litigate this while your bike is locked in their shop and you may wind up paying for an attorney plus the bill.
4. do you really want someone who fucked up your bike doing anything mechanical to it?
5. do you want someone who you have an adversarial relationship with working on your bike and then billing you for that work?
Hopefully, you won't have to deal with any of these nightmares.
1. we only heard your side of this fiasco. I would like to here theirs also.
2. did you ever hear of a mechanic's lean?
3. they have forever to litigate this while your bike is locked in their shop and you may wind up paying for an attorney plus the bill.
4. do you really want someone who fucked up your bike doing anything mechanical to it?
5. do you want someone who you have an adversarial relationship with working on your bike and then billing you for that work?
Hopefully, you won't have to deal with any of these nightmares.
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
They did just what I expected them to do, and what I was trying to have you prevent when talking to them directly after the first problem...
Ie they started tearing into the bike, replacing the little things, not checking all the expensive parts, just going "fingers crossed" it migth work...
End result... They are now racking up a very impressive and long list of things that needs replacing... They are using new parts (they are a shop after all) and spending time... The total for this will be much higher than opening up both top ends, checking and replacing the expensive parts with good used parts and then doing the smaller stuff... Like a lot of people suggested... Like me and others suggested you to tell the mechanic...
Now I have pretty dim view of how a mechanics lien works, since I'm not US based, but... The cost of the repair + parts will come close to or over what an insurance agent would deem a "total"... It will probably also come close to the cost of the bike...
If the shop is owned by a stand up guy who honestly thinks in the way we all hope he does, he will say "Our fault, we will fix it, never mind the cost"... If not, at the point where you start adding up the cost, he will start squeasing you...
So a question, did you talk to him like we suggested? What options where discussed and what was agreed upon? Did you get it in writing? Was it him that suggested going for the throw parts at it instead of replacing the engine route?
All of that will matter in the end... Trust me... And if my understanding of your legal system isn't completely wrong, the written part might be even more important...
Last edited by Tweety; Oct 9, 2010 at 05:31 AM.
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 84
From: Boca Raton FL
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Well, considering you just managed two red marks from the teacher in that post alone, and a few more in the first, I'd say start with your own grammar before you go pointing fingers... But that's just a friendly suggestion...
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,934
From: altoona, pa
Lighten up.
Maybe he is bi-lingual with english being his second language. Since 98% of Americans speak english only, and a lot of them not to well, this guy could be 1 giant step ahead of most of us.
May have a learning disability or other handicapping condition that compromises his communication skills.
Maybe just a dumb *** who is too lazy to edit his posts
Maybe all, some, or none of the above, but who knows.
to Tweety & Nath981.....
Señor Miembro, Ay Caramba
SuperSport
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 562
From: a little north of DC
Perhaps cel2620xl will tell us his background, so we know how to put his grammar in perspective.
It's not like he came on and immediately got ripped for his poor grammar. Forty or fifty-something posts were in the interest of straightening out his bike problem. I don't think it's a big deal to tack on a "work on your grammar" message at the end. The degree of tact in delivering that message is debatable, but the request was reasonable. Don't you think?
It's not like he came on and immediately got ripped for his poor grammar. Forty or fifty-something posts were in the interest of straightening out his bike problem. I don't think it's a big deal to tack on a "work on your grammar" message at the end. The degree of tact in delivering that message is debatable, but the request was reasonable. Don't you think?
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Perhaps cel2620xl will tell us his background, so we know how to put his grammar in perspective.
It's not like he came on and immediately got ripped for his poor grammar. Forty or fifty-something posts were in the interest of straightening out his bike problem. I don't think it's a big deal to tack on a "work on your grammar" message at the end. The degree of tact in delivering that message is debatable, but the request was reasonable. Don't you think?
It's not like he came on and immediately got ripped for his poor grammar. Forty or fifty-something posts were in the interest of straightening out his bike problem. I don't think it's a big deal to tack on a "work on your grammar" message at the end. The degree of tact in delivering that message is debatable, but the request was reasonable. Don't you think?
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 84
From: Boca Raton FL
Perhaps cel2620xl will tell us his background, so we know how to put his grammar in perspective.
It's not like he came on and immediately got ripped for his poor grammar. Forty or fifty-something posts were in the interest of straightening out his bike problem. I don't think it's a big deal to tack on a "work on your grammar" message at the end. The degree of tact in delivering that message is debatable, but the request was reasonable. Don't you think?
It's not like he came on and immediately got ripped for his poor grammar. Forty or fifty-something posts were in the interest of straightening out his bike problem. I don't think it's a big deal to tack on a "work on your grammar" message at the end. The degree of tact in delivering that message is debatable, but the request was reasonable. Don't you think?
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 84
From: Boca Raton FL
It been over a month and they finally finish redoing the heads. However they don't wanna reuse the old gaskets so the shop order new one. there suppler is out of stock. so were waiting on the back order. i have no idea when there comin in ....
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 84
From: Boca Raton FL
after two an half months The gasket finally came in on Friday afternoon. The SH is currently being put back together. im going to see how that goes on Monday. also can sum one tell me how much Hp dose my bike has (stock)? im have the shop Dyno it on Tuesday just to make sure the bike is in working order.
