Two diffene kind of cct.... why
09-29-2010, 04:55 PM
#31
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really guys..... this is my first bike... like i know what the going rate on a Mc that work on bikes. These guy seen to be professionals. boy was i wrong. Anyway i only know one SH owner near me but has barley anything to him self. i wish there were more SH owner nEAR ME ....
09-29-2010, 05:46 PM
#32
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Sorry to hear about your bike. I think everyone has covered what needs to be done. Have you talked to the guy in charge and calmly explained what needed to be done to make this situation right?
09-29-2010, 08:05 PM
#33
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With all due respect to folks who are mechanically inclined… It isn’t as easy for everyone as it is for you. I can envision myself bringing the SH into a shop to have work done. It’s only because I am perpetually broke and irrationally driven that I ever touch the bike.
I think in a way you underestimate the skills you have. Not all of us have this aptitude. For a lot of us an engine is a foreign language. We are good at what we’re good at, but we don’t necessarily know how to follow even the simple directions for the CCT install.
I think it was John Burns who said that motorcyclists think they are mechanical because they sit right over their engines, but most of us are just ordinary people who are Marketers, accountants, and coders on our day jobs. And if we were to explain how to design a Web site, navigate a tax return or design an ad campaign, it is just a little possible that y’all would be lost, too.
You chose poorly adventurer (cel2620xl), but there was no way you could know better. Leave a negative rating on this dude’s yellow pages ad and anywhere else you can AFTER you’re through this little abortion and always research a shop ahead of time. But, ****, this is really just ****-poor luck. You will get your bike back eventually and at least you live in Florida and not Maine. You’ll still have lots of season left.
‘course who wants to ride to Florida anyhow
I think in a way you underestimate the skills you have. Not all of us have this aptitude. For a lot of us an engine is a foreign language. We are good at what we’re good at, but we don’t necessarily know how to follow even the simple directions for the CCT install.
I think it was John Burns who said that motorcyclists think they are mechanical because they sit right over their engines, but most of us are just ordinary people who are Marketers, accountants, and coders on our day jobs. And if we were to explain how to design a Web site, navigate a tax return or design an ad campaign, it is just a little possible that y’all would be lost, too.
You chose poorly adventurer (cel2620xl), but there was no way you could know better. Leave a negative rating on this dude’s yellow pages ad and anywhere else you can AFTER you’re through this little abortion and always research a shop ahead of time. But, ****, this is really just ****-poor luck. You will get your bike back eventually and at least you live in Florida and not Maine. You’ll still have lots of season left.
‘course who wants to ride to Florida anyhow
09-29-2010, 09:14 PM
#34
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With all due respect to folks who are mechanically inclined… It isn’t as easy for everyone as it is for you.
I think in a way you underestimate the skills you have. Not all of us have this aptitude. For a lot of us an engine is a foreign language. We are good at what we’re good at, but we don’t necessarily know how to follow even the simple directions for the CCT install.
I think in a way you underestimate the skills you have. Not all of us have this aptitude. For a lot of us an engine is a foreign language. We are good at what we’re good at, but we don’t necessarily know how to follow even the simple directions for the CCT install.
09-29-2010, 11:17 PM
#35
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Yea i talk to the shop owner, and he look at the bike is said it the rear valves that are no good. so there over night the parts. they should be here tomorrow morning i going to see how this turn out by tomorrow afternoon keeping my finger cross and at the same time i have my state exam tomorrow i have to worry about. also on a good note i order my jar dine hi mount sys cost me 650 big one. will be here on Friday.
Last edited by cel2620xl; 09-29-2010 at 11:30 PM.
09-30-2010, 03:53 AM
#36
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I agree Calitoz. I know the the bikes I've liked best are the ones I really knew (and worked on). OTOH, there are a few bikes I remember only because I ruined them.
In a way we're still discussing Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance after all these years. One of the problem is that novice mechanics sometimes can't see the REASON things work the way they do, so instructions seem... more complex than they should.
This thread reminds me of that part of Zen where the narrator brings his bike in for a valve adjustment and the mechanics use vice grips to get to them and mung everything up...
In a way we're still discussing Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance after all these years. One of the problem is that novice mechanics sometimes can't see the REASON things work the way they do, so instructions seem... more complex than they should.
This thread reminds me of that part of Zen where the narrator brings his bike in for a valve adjustment and the mechanics use vice grips to get to them and mung everything up...
Last edited by Crashrat; 09-30-2010 at 04:06 AM.
09-30-2010, 05:32 AM
#37
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Yea i talk to the shop owner, and he look at the bike is said it the rear valves that are no good. so there over night the parts. they should be here tomorrow morning i going to see how this turn out by tomorrow afternoon keeping my finger cross and at the same time i have my state exam tomorrow i have to worry about. also on a good note i order my jar dine hi mount sys cost me 650 big one. will be here on Friday.
What state exam are you taking? Whatever it is, keep focused on it as the rest will work itself out.
09-30-2010, 06:18 AM
#38
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Yea i talk to the shop owner, and he look at the bike is said it the rear valves that are no good. so there over night the parts. they should be here tomorrow morning i going to see how this turn out by tomorrow afternoon keeping my finger cross and at the same time i have my state exam tomorrow i have to worry about. also on a good note i order my jar dine hi mount sys cost me 650 big one. will be here on Friday.
My experience with mechanics has taught me that most can replace parts and perform basic maintenance, but very few understand how each component functions and further how it affect all others. The worst part of this modus operandi is that they are financially rewarded for their inadequacy because instead of just fixing the particular problem, they often replace a bunch of **** not essential for eliminating the issue and this can and has become costly quick.
Unless you are prepared to accept and pay for this reality, you might wanna start studying for your motorcycle repair exam so that you can either find an honest and knowledgeable mechanic you can trust and rely on, and/or start the process of self-education so you can do the simple **** and thereby minimize your dependence on part replacers.
09-30-2010, 10:20 AM
#40
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And there are a lot of systems out there that are very intimidating and seemingly complex the first time around.
Remembering learning how to drive a car, it seemed like SUCH a big deal at the time. Keeping track of all the moving parts, clutch, steering wheel, shifter, brake, gas, turn signals, and mirrors with detrimental results if one was missed! It was overwhelming at first. Adults seemed like experts, including my mom who could operate all while talking to me! Oh, the skill! As a whole, it seemed reasonable to let others do it in anything but the most tame situations.
Now it is so routine I don't think about it. Even the little tricks that were novel at first are second nature, and I am sometimes surprised when my friends have never heard of or applied engine breaking and don't use turn signals. And I am terrified of letting my then-seemingly-expert mom drive my car cause she slips clutch like mad and can't back up to save her life.
So a bonehead mechanic to some is the only route for others...
09-30-2010, 01:04 PM
#41
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I'm talk about my networking Plus exam. also i'm not sure exact what being done to the bike. i just know it the rear cylinder that getting fix. i will see tomorrow what going on after i get off of work. i keep you guys posted ....
09-30-2010, 01:09 PM
#42
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you can wish that someone lived near you to help with your problem, but I believe wishing's for fairies(lord I apologize for that). hahaha
My experience with mechanics has taught me that most can replace parts and perform basic maintenance, but very few understand how each component functions and further how it affect all others. The worst part of this modus operandi is that they are financially rewarded for their inadequacy because instead of just fixing the particular problem, they often replace a bunch of **** not essential for eliminating the issue and this can and has become costly quick.
Unless you are prepared to accept and pay for this reality, you might wanna start studying for your motorcycle repair exam so that you can either find an honest and knowledgeable mechanic you can trust and rely on, and/or start the process of self-education so you can do the simple **** and thereby minimize your dependence on part replacers.
you sure talk alot.... i do have little knowledge when it come in working on motor's but i learn by exp.. and like i said this is my first bike
09-30-2010, 07:48 PM
#43
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Hope that's brief enough for ya.
09-30-2010, 08:02 PM
#44
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Nope, we would double our business if we did. We try to stay away from HD, and for good reason. So we change oil, tires, and try to do nothing more on them. Otherwise our work is a myriad of jap, brit, italian, and german motorcycles, jap and american quads, jap water craft, and all the crap snowmobiles.
09-30-2010, 09:13 PM
#45
Señor Miembro, Ay Caramba
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(FYI, I googled that.. opposite of "euphemism")
10-01-2010, 07:56 AM
#47
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With all due respect to folks who are mechanically inclined… It isn’t as easy for everyone as it is for you. I can envision myself bringing the SH into a shop to have work done. It’s only because I am perpetually broke and irrationally driven that I ever touch the bike.
I think in a way you underestimate the skills you have. Not all of us have this aptitude. For a lot of us an engine is a foreign language. We are good at what we’re good at, but we don’t necessarily know how to follow even the simple directions for the CCT install.
I think it was John Burns who said that motorcyclists think they are mechanical because they sit right over their engines, but most of us are just ordinary people who are Marketers, accountants, and coders on our day jobs. And if we were to explain how to design a Web site, navigate a tax return or design an ad campaign, it is just a little possible that y’all would be lost, too.
I think in a way you underestimate the skills you have. Not all of us have this aptitude. For a lot of us an engine is a foreign language. We are good at what we’re good at, but we don’t necessarily know how to follow even the simple directions for the CCT install.
I think it was John Burns who said that motorcyclists think they are mechanical because they sit right over their engines, but most of us are just ordinary people who are Marketers, accountants, and coders on our day jobs. And if we were to explain how to design a Web site, navigate a tax return or design an ad campaign, it is just a little possible that y’all would be lost, too.
Just because some things are easy for some of you, there is no reason to be calling people dumb !
I do my own mechanical work but would never be calling some one dumb just because they cant do what i can, if i did that i think i would be the dumb one. We all have different skills, we all do different things with our lives.
Last edited by hondavtr1000sp2; 10-01-2010 at 08:10 AM.
10-01-2010, 08:18 AM
#48
Out of my mind, back in 5
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+1, I agree with you Crash.
Just because some things are easy for some of you, there is no reason to be calling people dumb !
I do my own mechanical work but would never be calling some one dumb just because they cant do what i can, if i did that i think i would be the dumb one. We all have different skills, I have been training kick boxing for 27 years, so if some of you so called skilled do it yourself-er mechanics were to get in the ring with me & i knocked you out in 2 seconds ! that doesn't mean your dumb, it just means that you lack the skills of kick boxing, we all do different things with our lives.
Just because some things are easy for some of you, there is no reason to be calling people dumb !
I do my own mechanical work but would never be calling some one dumb just because they cant do what i can, if i did that i think i would be the dumb one. We all have different skills, I have been training kick boxing for 27 years, so if some of you so called skilled do it yourself-er mechanics were to get in the ring with me & i knocked you out in 2 seconds ! that doesn't mean your dumb, it just means that you lack the skills of kick boxing, we all do different things with our lives.
There is a difference between leaving it with a shop and leaving it with a mechanic... leaving it with a shop is dumb, leaving it with a mechanic is mostly not...
The difference is simple, assumig any wrench monkey in any shop will be able to do a CCT swap is stupid... Leaving it there on good faith without discussing what's to be done is stupid... Talking to the mecahnic before hand asking him some very simple questions doesn't require you to know how to do the work, it only requires you to read the manual on this site... The end reslut is that the wrenchmonkey have seen your face, which means he will take more care with your bike (probably), he knows there is a manual to follow, you have told him that it's an issue of lining up att TDC beforehand and he won't find that out afterwards when figuring out what went wrong... Because on several other bikes that's not important, on the VTR it is...
I think it was Nuhawk that long time ago, posted up that he printed the instructions of this site, walked into the shop and had them do the work following the manual...
So, no... Not being able to do the job doesn't make you stupid, but ending up with a mechanic that destroys the top end of your engine might actually qualify you... At the very least it makes you naive as you haven't yet figured out that a shop and it's mechanics aren't all knowing, even if they might seem intimidating... Checking facts with them beforehand is OK... If they feel otherwise, find another shop...
Oh... BTW it might take you a bit more than two seconds in the ring with me... You have 7 years on me in training, but I'm 6'2" so I have a decent reach...
Last edited by Tweety; 10-01-2010 at 08:21 AM.
10-01-2010, 09:59 AM
#49
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I always print off the instructions I find here. There’s probably money in creating manuals based on forums like this rather than the factory’s OEM. I have no doubt that there are people here with more knowledge of this machine that the folks who designed and built it.
I think here in the states we’re seeing a generational shift. I’m just old enough to remember when cars and motorcycles still broke down. I got a chance to rebuild a RD400 when they weren’t considered classics yet and I learned from that experience.
People who came to the sport in the 1990s have lived with bikes that refused to break unless you were a complete bonehead to them. They never have had to use the shitty factory tool kit or ride home using a pair of vice grips to engage the clutch.
I think in a way this has lead them to believe bikes are disposable liked sealed batteries or enigmatic like highly developed computer systems. And in the US, everything has also become very specialized which tamps out the DIY spirit (but this is changing).
But I also think in this particular case even the best description doesn’t really capture (for a newbie) what the CCTs do or why they fail. I certainly won’t attempt to write that poem, but it took me a LONG time and a LOT of reading for the ball to drop on that one.
I think here in the states we’re seeing a generational shift. I’m just old enough to remember when cars and motorcycles still broke down. I got a chance to rebuild a RD400 when they weren’t considered classics yet and I learned from that experience.
People who came to the sport in the 1990s have lived with bikes that refused to break unless you were a complete bonehead to them. They never have had to use the shitty factory tool kit or ride home using a pair of vice grips to engage the clutch.
I think in a way this has lead them to believe bikes are disposable liked sealed batteries or enigmatic like highly developed computer systems. And in the US, everything has also become very specialized which tamps out the DIY spirit (but this is changing).
But I also think in this particular case even the best description doesn’t really capture (for a newbie) what the CCTs do or why they fail. I certainly won’t attempt to write that poem, but it took me a LONG time and a LOT of reading for the ball to drop on that one.
10-01-2010, 04:44 PM
#50
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Sure, y'all dont want to be called dumb when you can't read the directions and figure out how to do the job, because "everyone is differently able". Load of crap, y'all having problem with your "mechanic" are assuming that they know and aren't just as "differently abled" as yourself. The swede is making sense to me, and I am sure that I am making sense to him.
10-01-2010, 05:20 PM
#51
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Now I know I’m thinking in Marketing, but I don’t understand the logic of a mechanic saying that anyone can do the work he does. The reason we bring you our things is because we are convinced you know something we don’t. I think that’s a good illusion for you to support.
10-01-2010, 06:09 PM
#52
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It is as good of an illusion that you might know enough to make any type of reasonable marketing attempt for a potential customer of yours. I suppose that they might do some research themselves in to what you do, what you have done, and techniques that have been used by other businesses to make sure that the product that you offer to deliver for $$ is something that the both want and that is feasible for you to even carry out.
10-01-2010, 06:50 PM
#53
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Yep, no argument here. In this age of the Interwebs, finding out who you're dealing with is pretty easy. I misunderstood your point if that's what you were saying, Bill. All apologies. 
10-01-2010, 07:29 PM
#54
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Not necessary. We are in the information age, we just ask for it and never look for the info ourselves. those that "dont know" dont care to, they would rather just have an answer to their immediate problem. That has become the frustration for many of the members "who know" around here. I apologize for offending and threadjacking.
10-02-2010, 12:12 AM
#55
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As for cel2620xl, most of us feel sorry for you for having to deal with the idiot mechanic(s); and most of us are reasonably sure this incident will provide you with motivation to hop on this site and do thorough research the next time you need work done to your bike. Maybe you'll even decide you're capable of handling it yourself.
10-02-2010, 05:56 AM
#56
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Now I know I’m thinking in Marketing, but I don’t understand the logic of a mechanic saying that anyone can do the work he does. The reason we bring you our things is because we are convinced you know something we don’t. I think that’s a good illusion for you to support.
They have no issue sharing there experience and knowledge with home wrenches.
Why? Because it increase there reputation as people find "they were right" Because it does not diminish the amount of folks who do not own tools, do not like working on bikes, do not have the time to do this kind of work, or simply have more money then time, and would rather spend disposable cash to have a motor built, tuned, brakes upgraded, and enjoy a weekend at the lake while it's happening.... these folks walk in the door and have no issue paying to have the job done.
And if not that job they get expert help on, then something later on that they can not do even with internet help.
Last edited by E.Marquez; 10-02-2010 at 05:58 AM.
10-02-2010, 09:00 PM
#57
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Sure, y'all dont want to be called dumb when you can't read the directions and figure out how to do the job, because "everyone is differently able". Load of crap, y'all having problem with your "mechanic" are assuming that they know and aren't just as "differently abled" as yourself. The swede is making sense to me, and I am sure that I am making sense to him.
10-02-2010, 09:11 PM
#58
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work on or built 5 houses. Didn't build mine because it wasn't feasible with working 2 jobs and not having a place to live in the area where I bought, along with not having the capital to fund any long term build, which it would have been had I built it myself. So I leveraged what I had in capital, my credit score, and what I was able to make to purchase a house. It is quite a bit different in the scope of things, as a cct job is only 3 hrs for our bikes. I have also built two cars from the ground up with a group of friends, but I didn't consider it prudent or practical to make my own. If you are able and have the capital to rent while building such a house, I would. That is a no brainer.
10-02-2010, 10:01 PM
#59
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I think people such as your self & tweety are very skilled individuals but what you find easy is not that easy for some others Bill, you have named yourself "autoteach" obviously this stuff is second nature for you, some other people spend there time doing other things and there fore do not have the skills that you have. This is all i have to say.
10-03-2010, 05:48 AM
#60
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I get that a lot.
As for cel2620xl, most of us feel sorry for you for having to deal with the idiot mechanic(s); and most of us are reasonably sure this incident will provide you with motivation to hop on this site and do thorough research the next time you need work done to your bike. Maybe you'll even decide you're capable of handling it yourself.
As for cel2620xl, most of us feel sorry for you for having to deal with the idiot mechanic(s); and most of us are reasonably sure this incident will provide you with motivation to hop on this site and do thorough research the next time you need work done to your bike. Maybe you'll even decide you're capable of handling it yourself.
