buying a vtr...
06-08-2008, 09:21 PM
#1
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Squid
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 16
buying a vtr...
looking at a 98 vtr with 28k km - imaculate looking bike - all original.
somehow very cheap...
worst case scenario - i buy this bike and have to rebuild the drivetrain - and i have to pay someone else to do it - what kind of dollar figure am i looking at for parts and time?
thanks in advance
edit: i know this is a very general question asked a hundred times, but i can find no fault in the bike except a slight hesitation when letting off the throttle. owner revved the engine quite gingerly though. what do i need to specifically ask the mechanic who is safetying the bike for me to check for besides bent valves and CCT? just need to know rough estimates on rebuilding heads on these bikes if it comes to that... or if it can be worse ><
editx2: got great info about putting the bike on a stand in 6th gear and rotating tire for sound/feel - any other cool tricks to hear whats going on in that case?
editx3: bike has been stored for one season. not plated or insured, so i have to take this to a shop to evaluate. cannot test drive ><
editx4: i've gone through many many pages of the forums here now. great info, thanks very much for all the knowledge i've already been able to gain here! two thumbs up for all contributors!
editx5: well sleepless night thinking about gears, cams and chains n stuff. taking the bike into a shop today for eval. hope the mechanic is worth something as i feel a little out of my depth here. wish i had xray vision for the case of this bike
somehow very cheap...
worst case scenario - i buy this bike and have to rebuild the drivetrain - and i have to pay someone else to do it - what kind of dollar figure am i looking at for parts and time?
thanks in advance
edit: i know this is a very general question asked a hundred times, but i can find no fault in the bike except a slight hesitation when letting off the throttle. owner revved the engine quite gingerly though. what do i need to specifically ask the mechanic who is safetying the bike for me to check for besides bent valves and CCT? just need to know rough estimates on rebuilding heads on these bikes if it comes to that... or if it can be worse ><
editx2: got great info about putting the bike on a stand in 6th gear and rotating tire for sound/feel - any other cool tricks to hear whats going on in that case?
editx3: bike has been stored for one season. not plated or insured, so i have to take this to a shop to evaluate. cannot test drive ><
editx4: i've gone through many many pages of the forums here now. great info, thanks very much for all the knowledge i've already been able to gain here! two thumbs up for all contributors!
editx5: well sleepless night thinking about gears, cams and chains n stuff. taking the bike into a shop today for eval. hope the mechanic is worth something as i feel a little out of my depth here. wish i had xray vision for the case of this bike
Last edited by khonnsu; 06-09-2008 at 07:21 AM.
06-09-2008, 03:52 PM
#2
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Squid
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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the process goes on...
looked at it again today - very clean looking bike.
paid the clearly very knowledgeable Honda mechanic 100$ to test drive and safety the machine tomorrow.
he indicated knowing of the problem not only with the cct on these bikes, but also said he might remember a recall on the actual cam chain itself; they they might break regardless of the cct. anyone have any knowledge on that?
so... gonna sleep much better tonight dreaming of pounding out of a corner on a liter twin and leave the gears, cams and chains to the mechanics.
i really hope for a positive result from the inspection ^ ^
paid the clearly very knowledgeable Honda mechanic 100$ to test drive and safety the machine tomorrow.
he indicated knowing of the problem not only with the cct on these bikes, but also said he might remember a recall on the actual cam chain itself; they they might break regardless of the cct. anyone have any knowledge on that?
so... gonna sleep much better tonight dreaming of pounding out of a corner on a liter twin and leave the gears, cams and chains to the mechanics.
i really hope for a positive result from the inspection ^ ^
06-09-2008, 04:11 PM
#3
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SuperSport
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Central Fl.
Posts: 530
'98 VTR W/Moriwaki pistons, cams, jet kit etc...original cam chain. 28k mi. On the stock cct's. Always used good quality synthetic oil.
Only problem was the oft mentioned RR failure, had good luck since installing the updated finned OEM unit.
Learn to speak intelligently to your wrench, buy the shop manual, read it before every service point, save money, ride long.
Dreaming about pounding out of a corner on big jugs are you?
Only problem was the oft mentioned RR failure, had good luck since installing the updated finned OEM unit.
Learn to speak intelligently to your wrench, buy the shop manual, read it before every service point, save money, ride long.
Dreaming about pounding out of a corner on big jugs are you?
06-09-2008, 04:27 PM
#4
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Squid
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nice
thanks Pushrod, good thinking - the shop manual. i've even seen links to download it in pdf format.
i think i've found the bike for me in the 'hawk. i'm tall and skinny and everything else feels so cramped - and if it's not feeling cramped - then it's feeling wide and heavy. i think i've done my research well and settled on a bike i want to help run forever it's definitely worth getting to know the bike inside out.
i can't help but feel somewhat ideological, but to think that i could get to know the machine well enough to tackle any problem seems very empowering.
i guess ultimately, as long as my frame stays true - there is nothing that can't be rebuilt/replaced? could a vtr last forever?
i think i've found the bike for me in the 'hawk. i'm tall and skinny and everything else feels so cramped - and if it's not feeling cramped - then it's feeling wide and heavy. i think i've done my research well and settled on a bike i want to help run forever
it's definitely worth getting to know the bike inside out.i can't help but feel somewhat ideological, but to think that i could get to know the machine well enough to tackle any problem seems very empowering.
i guess ultimately, as long as my frame stays true - there is nothing that can't be rebuilt/replaced? could a vtr last forever?
06-09-2008, 06:57 PM
#5
Remember stock is BAD!
SuperSport
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 760
shawks are pretty solid.
Cam chain tentioners are a know honda thing. They have problems with these in other motorcycles as well.
Other than that - reg / rect.
At one time there was a shop manual available in .pdf format here on the forum. Try searching for it.
Cam chain tentioners are a know honda thing. They have problems with these in other motorcycles as well.
Other than that - reg / rect.
At one time there was a shop manual available in .pdf format here on the forum. Try searching for it.
06-09-2008, 08:28 PM
#6
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Squid
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excitebike wow, thats a blast from the past! cool in the old school
yes, r/r and cct - definitely sounding like the top two recurrent issues with the bike.
ya know it's a daunting task looking at small engine technical manuals coming from a background of limited exposure to mechanics of any kind. i had a guy explain to me how to change out brake pads using a c-clamp without opening the fluid system. sounded understandable - even straight forward with how well he was able to explain the process, but not because I had the slightest idea how a brake works from any practical experience
i have a lot to learn about bikes - and quickly, cuz i already know i like to ride
edit: i'm really impressed for the collection of information you all have here. also very impressed how easy going, knowledgeable, and intelligent the members are. how mature and respectful the communication is on your threads ^ ^ maybe the only smart people are riding hawks :P
wow, thats a blast from the past! cool in the old school yes, r/r and cct - definitely sounding like the top two recurrent issues with the bike.
ya know it's a daunting task looking at small engine technical manuals coming from a background of limited exposure to mechanics of any kind. i had a guy explain to me how to change out brake pads using a c-clamp without opening the fluid system. sounded understandable - even straight forward with how well he was able to explain the process, but not because I had the slightest idea how a brake works from any practical experience
i have a lot to learn about bikes - and quickly, cuz i already know i like to ride
edit: i'm really impressed for the collection of information you all have here. also very impressed how easy going, knowledgeable, and intelligent the members are. how mature and respectful the communication is on your threads ^ ^ maybe the only smart people are riding hawks :P
Last edited by khonnsu; 06-09-2008 at 09:33 PM.
06-10-2008, 01:28 AM
#7
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MotoGP
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06-10-2008, 08:43 AM
#8
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MotoGP
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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VTR is a solid reliable bike, I say go for it. I got mine for cheap because it had almost 50k miles on it, and now has 60k 
. Other than the cct's and R/R they have no known major issues. (the cam chains are not known to break on them)
Don't expect a lot of upgrade options for the engine, but it doesn't really need it. (there are a lot of popular suspension mods though)
. Other than the cct's and R/R they have no known major issues. (the cam chains are not known to break on them)Don't expect a lot of upgrade options for the engine, but it doesn't really need it. (there are a lot of popular suspension mods though)
06-10-2008, 09:22 AM
#9
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Squid
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I'm starting to see that 28,000 km's is no big deal on this bike.
My biggest concern here is that the bike was not insured or registered. So not being able to drive it is one difficulty (which i hopefully can remedy with the shop help), also, why wasn't the owner driving it this season or last?
Also, I thought the stock exhaust it has on it sounded rather 'tinny'. I was expecting a deeper throatier sound from them.
I am sitting by the phone waiting for the shop to call with the results of their evaluation. If they give it a pass, I'll be sold on the bike and riding it this afternoon *right wrist twitch*!
Thanks to all who had some input for me, much appreciated. Everyone should come up to Alberta for some mountain switchbacks this summer, I could be a great guide! heh
edit: all the pictures of the hawks around here are very nice - love those high mount cans, i think that will be my first mod after r/r and cct's. Does anyone have any trouble with passengers with the high mounts?
editx2: also, i've seen lots of info about the cct's - but i am wondering - if i have a shawk with stock cct's, do they just blow up on you or do they give some notice as to when they are about to go. murphy's law: if it aint broke - don't fix it... can i run on stock cct's or is it like a ticking bomb? will the bike give any indication when its time to switch those out?
My biggest concern here is that the bike was not insured or registered. So not being able to drive it is one difficulty (which i hopefully can remedy with the shop help), also, why wasn't the owner driving it this season or last?
Also, I thought the stock exhaust it has on it sounded rather 'tinny'. I was expecting a deeper throatier sound from them.
I am sitting by the phone waiting for the shop to call with the results of their evaluation. If they give it a pass, I'll be sold on the bike and riding it this afternoon *right wrist twitch*!
Thanks to all who had some input for me, much appreciated. Everyone should come up to Alberta for some mountain switchbacks this summer, I could be a great guide! heh
edit: all the pictures of the hawks around here are very nice - love those high mount cans, i think that will be my first mod after r/r and cct's. Does anyone have any trouble with passengers with the high mounts?
editx2: also, i've seen lots of info about the cct's - but i am wondering - if i have a shawk with stock cct's, do they just blow up on you or do they give some notice as to when they are about to go. murphy's law: if it aint broke - don't fix it... can i run on stock cct's or is it like a ticking bomb? will the bike give any indication when its time to switch those out?
Last edited by khonnsu; 06-10-2008 at 09:30 AM.
06-10-2008, 12:47 PM
#10
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Superstock
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Warren, NH
Posts: 284
Stock CCT will sometimes give you warning before the let go. You will start to her the cam cahin ratttle around. This is more common. They can fail completely and really screw up your day. This is more a Honda problem than a SH specific problem. The I4 have more problems with them than V2 because of the higher RPM. Basically it is cheap insurance.
06-10-2008, 01:25 PM
#11
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SuperSport
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
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edit: i'm really impressed for the collection of information you all have here. also very impressed how easy going, knowledgeable, and intelligent the members are. how mature and respectful the communication is on your threads ^ ^ maybe the only smart people are riding hawks :P
Its funny to go to other forums and read the posts- full of attitudes, better than yous, more money than yous, did a couple days cause they caught mes, and other idiots. Most of us are old enough to know better and still too young to care lol.
Your motorcycling "hobby" will grow tremendously now that you have a Superhawk and frequent this forum.
06-10-2008, 03:24 PM
#12
Remember stock is BAD!
SuperSport
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Location: Jacksonville FL
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06-10-2008, 04:04 PM
#13
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Squid
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conclusion
hahah!
well... verdict is in and very dissapointing.
the wrench found two warped front brake rotors, bad triple clamp connection and said it wobbled very badly in deceleration. i attribute some of this to the bike sitting so long and likely was exaggerated by a bit of rust forming on the rotors. also found a well covered up fork seal leak. looks like it was in an accident and the front end was mucked up - so who knows if completely redoing the front end would result in a fix - or if it would just tell tale on a bad frame...
rotors - 435$ a side... ugh... 1800$ work required to insure this beast - made an offer on the bike anyway thinking that IF he didn't know thats what would be found by the wrench - then he would move on his asking price... wouldn't budge.
so a big waste of time from a deceptive seller. I'm never even gonna look at another bike that isn't plated and insured at the time of sale.
anyone have a shawk for sale??
well... verdict is in and very dissapointing.
the wrench found two warped front brake rotors, bad triple clamp connection and said it wobbled very badly in deceleration. i attribute some of this to the bike sitting so long and likely was exaggerated by a bit of rust forming on the rotors. also found a well covered up fork seal leak. looks like it was in an accident and the front end was mucked up - so who knows if completely redoing the front end would result in a fix - or if it would just tell tale on a bad frame...
rotors - 435$ a side... ugh... 1800$ work required to insure this beast - made an offer on the bike anyway thinking that IF he didn't know thats what would be found by the wrench - then he would move on his asking price... wouldn't budge.
so a big waste of time from a deceptive seller. I'm never even gonna look at another bike that isn't plated and insured at the time of sale.
anyone have a shawk for sale??
06-10-2008, 06:04 PM
#14
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Back Marker
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Almonte, Ont Canada
Posts: 136
My 99 is for sale.
Sargent, Heli Bars, Ohlins, Racetech, V&H, plus......Rides and runs great.
Original owner. Mature rider.
Reason for selling? I have retired and no longer need a commuter bike. I purchased a Moto Guzzi to satisfy my touring needs.
Bike is located near Ottawa.
It's listed in the classifieds, but ping me for more info and pics.
Geoff in Almonte
Sargent, Heli Bars, Ohlins, Racetech, V&H, plus......Rides and runs great.
Original owner. Mature rider.
Reason for selling? I have retired and no longer need a commuter bike. I purchased a Moto Guzzi to satisfy my touring needs.
Bike is located near Ottawa.
It's listed in the classifieds, but ping me for more info and pics.
Geoff in Almonte
06-10-2008, 09:30 PM
#15
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Squid
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i need more money
thanks, but when i start considering gear, insurance, bike, licensing... i start thinking maybe i need a bigger budget. lol
it would've been lovely to scoop that vtr not one hour from my home for 4200 as advertised, but in trying i've thrown 100$ out the window.
i don't think i'm going to find the bike i want for < 5k - so for now i'm gonna stop looking and revisit this in a month with more cash. i think i'll need 6k or better to take the bike i need home and then likely another 1000 on hand to throw at it as necessary.
my budget is insufficient
it would've been lovely to scoop that vtr not one hour from my home for 4200 as advertised, but in trying i've thrown 100$ out the window.
i don't think i'm going to find the bike i want for < 5k - so for now i'm gonna stop looking and revisit this in a month with more cash. i think i'll need 6k or better to take the bike i need home and then likely another 1000 on hand to throw at it as necessary.
my budget is insufficient
Last edited by khonnsu; 06-10-2008 at 09:32 PM.
06-11-2008, 09:26 AM
#16
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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thanks, but when i start considering gear, insurance, bike, licensing... i start thinking maybe i need a bigger budget. lol
it would've been lovely to scoop that vtr not one hour from my home for 4200 as advertised, but in trying i've thrown 100$ out the window.
i don't think i'm going to find the bike i want for < 5k - so for now i'm gonna stop looking and revisit this in a month with more cash. i think i'll need 6k or better to take the bike i need home and then likely another 1000 on hand to throw at it as necessary.
my budget is insufficient
it would've been lovely to scoop that vtr not one hour from my home for 4200 as advertised, but in trying i've thrown 100$ out the window.
i don't think i'm going to find the bike i want for < 5k - so for now i'm gonna stop looking and revisit this in a month with more cash. i think i'll need 6k or better to take the bike i need home and then likely another 1000 on hand to throw at it as necessary.
my budget is insufficient
edit: eg here is one for $2700 http://phoenix.craigslist.org/mcy/699772036.html
06-11-2008, 12:45 PM
#17
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SuperBike
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Location: Los Angeles ish
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I went to look at my bike that was listed for $4000. 2000 model 11,000 miles with two scratches on the bodywork. It took a minute or two for the seller to find the second scratch, it was that small. Really well maintained bike. With Micron exhaust and jetted. All that to say, there are better deals out there. Just have to force a little patience against the urge to ride now.
06-11-2008, 05:08 PM
#18
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Squid
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i think it's a very different story in the USA. the msrp is fully 1500$ different, and although we have "free trade" and a near identical dollar - MSRP for these bikes across the border is still much different.
4200$ is THE cheapest vtr i can find anywhere in Canada. and i have looked
4200$ is THE cheapest vtr i can find anywhere in Canada. and i have looked
06-11-2008, 07:10 PM
#19
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for example - 2 identical 08 cbr's:
http://www.motorcycle.com/specs/hond...reg/600rr.html
BASE MSRP (US) $9,599.00
and
http://www.riversidehonda.com/dlrind...53888-2008.htm
MSRP
C$12,499.00*
3000$ more gas to get it here? this is plain exploitation of a market imho.
I would even entertain the notion of buying one out of the states and having it shipped here, although I hear that is more trouble than it ends up being worth with customs, registration, taxes, still can't test drive a bike even!
http://www.motorcycle.com/specs/hond...reg/600rr.html
BASE MSRP (US) $9,599.00
and
http://www.riversidehonda.com/dlrind...53888-2008.htm
MSRP
C$12,499.00*
3000$ more gas to get it here? this is plain exploitation of a market imho.
I would even entertain the notion of buying one out of the states and having it shipped here, although I hear that is more trouble than it ends up being worth with customs, registration, taxes, still can't test drive a bike even!
Last edited by khonnsu; 06-11-2008 at 07:20 PM.
06-11-2008, 08:14 PM
#21
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Squid
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i bet parts are even worse. does 435x2=870$ for a couple front brake rotors for the shawk sound right to you people south of the border?
edit: thats new from a honda dealer btw.
edit: thats new from a honda dealer btw.
06-11-2008, 09:05 PM
#22
Uhhhhh..huh.huh..Member..
Superstock
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 269
Heres some cheap rotors.......
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OEM-F...mZ160248197231
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-FRONT-BRAKE-...d=p3286.c0.m14
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OEM-F...mZ160248197231
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-FRONT-BRAKE-...d=p3286.c0.m14
06-11-2008, 09:29 PM
#23
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Squid
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yeah no. thanks for looking for me - but again, whats to say i completely redo the triple clamp forward only to find out it still shakes?
what a hassle to start with a bike you can't ride. I'll never do it.
edit: and i've bought ebay from the states before on a couple items (computers mostly) and there is always greater shipping costs as well as duty taxes. you might save something by doing that way anyway (and i did) but it's still missing the point of a baseline cost comparison across the border.
We, Canadians and Americans of course, share the same air shed, same oil and gas, same food sources, same lumber and steel, same bikes I think it's important to keep that in mind for a variety of strong reasons.
what a hassle to start with a bike you can't ride. I'll never do it.
edit: and i've bought ebay from the states before on a couple items (computers mostly) and there is always greater shipping costs as well as duty taxes. you might save something by doing that way anyway (and i did) but it's still missing the point of a baseline cost comparison across the border.
We, Canadians and Americans of course, share the same air shed, same oil and gas, same food sources, same lumber and steel, same bikes
I think it's important to keep that in mind for a variety of strong reasons.
Last edited by khonnsu; 06-11-2008 at 09:38 PM.
06-12-2008, 06:21 PM
#25
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Squid
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i'm sure the opportunity is lost in red tape and bureaucracy. prolly require a wholesale dealer license which likely has a 5 figure fee attached to it to be compliant. import/export license, pay taxes on all gains, and must have out of country inspections and weird regulations for registering the vehicle. god knows what else... i'm sure thats only a partial list.
call me a pessimist but... if the shoe fits.
i am reminded of a very funny schpeil by Steven Cobert:
he has a friend on the floor of the NYSE and asks him, "so are you feeling optimistic about the markets?" and the trader replies: "oh yes". so steven asks, "so why do you look so worried?" to which the trader replies, "I'm not sure if there is any reason to be optimistic"
made me laugh
call me a pessimist but... if the shoe fits.
i am reminded of a very funny schpeil by Steven Cobert:
he has a friend on the floor of the NYSE and asks him, "so are you feeling optimistic about the markets?" and the trader replies: "oh yes". so steven asks, "so why do you look so worried?" to which the trader replies, "I'm not sure if there is any reason to be optimistic"
made me laugh
06-13-2008, 09:50 AM
#26
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Posts: 139
"red tape and bureaucracy" a buddy of mine avoided all that back in the '80's when he "imported" a RZ350 a year before you could get then in the US. He drive it out of the dealer to the St. Lawrance river where he met a boat.
I feel for you on the MSRP issue you have to put up with, but on the bright side.....you got free health care.
I see a door with my name on it.
I feel for you on the MSRP issue you have to put up with, but on the bright side.....you got free health care.
I see a door with my name on it.
06-13-2008, 03:48 PM
#27
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Squid
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yeah, i'm sure the additional cost to the canadian msrp is not our government taxes. i think there are different prices guidelines for canada and the usa from most manufacturers, and traditionally the difference in msrp has always reflected our much weaker canadian dollar; although now with it on par with the usd, we still see no difference.
i think it's a bit of a gouge from the manufacturer, maybe a bit of difference in taxes (although we already have a frederal goods and services tax applied on top of the price of the bike with all the hidden taxes - so essentially we are paying taxes on taxes - but an entirely different thread topic..). Largely, it is the market being lackadaisical in accommodating the rise in Canadian dollar.
But yer right, free health care is a good thing - especially when you ride a bike! although i remember my ambulance ride to the hospital cost me 500$ first time i wiped a bike out. so yeah... paid 500$ to drive to this hospital where they just handed me some little white squares and a bowl of brown water - sayin: scrub the gravel out. came around behind me with the bandages. great job!
i think it's a bit of a gouge from the manufacturer, maybe a bit of difference in taxes (although we already have a frederal goods and services tax applied on top of the price of the bike with all the hidden taxes - so essentially we are paying taxes on taxes - but an entirely different thread topic..). Largely, it is the market being lackadaisical in accommodating the rise in Canadian dollar.
But yer right, free health care is a good thing - especially when you ride a bike! although i remember my ambulance ride to the hospital cost me 500$ first time i wiped a bike out. so yeah... paid 500$ to drive to this hospital where they just handed me some little white squares and a bowl of brown water - sayin: scrub the gravel out. came around behind me with the bandages. great job!
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