2004 VTR & 2005 FZ1 ride impression
12-16-2011, 07:32 PM
#1
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2004 VTR & 2005 FZ1 ride impression
Nice to day for a ride again today-
67 degrees
Clear
I bumped into a rider who recently purchased a Yamaha FZ1. It's the last of the Gen 1 Carbed bikes.
We switched for a while through the Coast Range Hills.
Engines are the same size but the bikes are Completely different:
There are Pros/Cons to each one. We both agreed on the following:
Power:
The Yamaha is faster overall- given the whole power band to play in...however-
FZ1- All the power is up top. I could pin the throttle and would have to wait for the RPM's to increase before it hits. Then it takes off hard and things pass by quickly.
VTR- Power everywhere in a linear fashion. No big hit up top. If you pin the throttle off idle it takes off faster initially than the FZ1 and goes airborne in 1st and 2nd. Felt raw and less polished.
Ride Quality:
FZ1- It's very "cruiser-esque" for lack of a better word when compared to the Hawk. The wheelbase is long and the suspension is good with a soft seat. It really absorbs all the bumps and the motor is quiet and sewing machine SMOOTH...very smooth carbs. The feedback from the road is very muted. Position is really upright compared to the VTR. Handles well.
VTR- Feels closer to a sport bike. More leaned forward and short wheelbase make it feel more sporty. You feel more bumps. Sound and engine vibration with road texture is there all the time. Handles well.
Cornering:
FZ1- Takes some nudging and feels a tad more top heavy. Less corner feedback. Less agility. More stable through corners more noticeable on faster ones. Front end feels "longer". I wanted to suck my body down over the wheel more. Bike is less upset than VTR when things get rough.
VTR- Feels like it's smaller. Tip in is great. Corner speed is higher at times. Suspension IS harsher over bumps mid corner. Less forgiving if you make errors. More sensitive to inputs.
Conclusion:
We both agreed that-
On a longer trip the FZ1 is way better. It's like sewing machine smooth with the I4 motor and long wheelbase upright posture and soft seat. I could have ridden that bike all day long.
On a shorter ride, the VTR won it. The short wheels, vibration and bike character has a tremendous amount of soul that's fun. The bike "hits" right off idle which was a real gas to him.
I should note that while I was behind my VTR, I watched him slide the back end twice on downhill corner entries from straights. I thought he was too hard on the rear brake. Nope. He had been downshifting from high rpm with a closed throttle. The back torque stepped the rear end. I do that sometimes too and remain in total control just as he did... but- it sure looks hairball from a spectators point of view. The FZ1 brakes were better.
FZ1- 40 mpg
VTR- 35 mpg
If you are looking for SMOOTH comfort and more practicality get an FZ1.
If you are looking for more SOUL go with the VTR.
Both bikes were good in different ways.
We agreed that it's best to have a quiver of motorcycles to choose from.
As for me, I will never get an I4 motor unless I am into cross country stuff as I love power down low below jail speeds.
67 degrees
Clear
I bumped into a rider who recently purchased a Yamaha FZ1. It's the last of the Gen 1 Carbed bikes.
We switched for a while through the Coast Range Hills.
Engines are the same size but the bikes are Completely different:
There are Pros/Cons to each one. We both agreed on the following:
Power:
The Yamaha is faster overall- given the whole power band to play in...however-
FZ1- All the power is up top. I could pin the throttle and would have to wait for the RPM's to increase before it hits. Then it takes off hard and things pass by quickly.
VTR- Power everywhere in a linear fashion. No big hit up top. If you pin the throttle off idle it takes off faster initially than the FZ1 and goes airborne in 1st and 2nd. Felt raw and less polished.
Ride Quality:
FZ1- It's very "cruiser-esque" for lack of a better word when compared to the Hawk. The wheelbase is long and the suspension is good with a soft seat. It really absorbs all the bumps and the motor is quiet and sewing machine SMOOTH...very smooth carbs. The feedback from the road is very muted. Position is really upright compared to the VTR. Handles well.
VTR- Feels closer to a sport bike. More leaned forward and short wheelbase make it feel more sporty. You feel more bumps. Sound and engine vibration with road texture is there all the time. Handles well.
Cornering:
FZ1- Takes some nudging and feels a tad more top heavy. Less corner feedback. Less agility. More stable through corners more noticeable on faster ones. Front end feels "longer". I wanted to suck my body down over the wheel more. Bike is less upset than VTR when things get rough.
VTR- Feels like it's smaller. Tip in is great. Corner speed is higher at times. Suspension IS harsher over bumps mid corner. Less forgiving if you make errors. More sensitive to inputs.
Conclusion:
We both agreed that-
On a longer trip the FZ1 is way better. It's like sewing machine smooth with the I4 motor and long wheelbase upright posture and soft seat. I could have ridden that bike all day long.
On a shorter ride, the VTR won it. The short wheels, vibration and bike character has a tremendous amount of soul that's fun. The bike "hits" right off idle which was a real gas to him.
I should note that while I was behind my VTR, I watched him slide the back end twice on downhill corner entries from straights. I thought he was too hard on the rear brake. Nope. He had been downshifting from high rpm with a closed throttle. The back torque stepped the rear end. I do that sometimes too and remain in total control just as he did... but- it sure looks hairball from a spectators point of view. The FZ1 brakes were better.
FZ1- 40 mpg
VTR- 35 mpg
If you are looking for SMOOTH comfort and more practicality get an FZ1.
If you are looking for more SOUL go with the VTR.
Both bikes were good in different ways.
We agreed that it's best to have a quiver of motorcycles to choose from.
As for me, I will never get an I4 motor unless I am into cross country stuff as I love power down low below jail speeds.
Last edited by Matt_Hawk; 12-17-2011 at 12:48 PM.
12-16-2011, 08:52 PM
#3
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I had the pleasure of riding a FZ1 for about a half a day around town. To the bank, out to a customer's to look things over, some freeway, some in towns.
I think it was a 08 or so because it was fi. It will be the bike that I ride after I hang it up on the VTR. It's hugely agile, hugely powerful and yes, down low - digs out of a corner just like our bikes. The suspension for a stock bike is awesome. Great balance, great cornering, very smooth power band makes for comfortable but aggressive handling. Stance is a little taller than my Superhawk with Heli's but the lack of vibration is very noticable. This bike runs like a sewing machine.
Superhawks have come a long way in ten years. This is it.
I think it was a 08 or so because it was fi. It will be the bike that I ride after I hang it up on the VTR. It's hugely agile, hugely powerful and yes, down low - digs out of a corner just like our bikes. The suspension for a stock bike is awesome. Great balance, great cornering, very smooth power band makes for comfortable but aggressive handling. Stance is a little taller than my Superhawk with Heli's but the lack of vibration is very noticable. This bike runs like a sewing machine.
Superhawks have come a long way in ten years. This is it.
12-16-2011, 08:54 PM
#4
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Matt, Ditto on most all you noted on your bike comparison. I also have a 2002 FZ1 and enjoy the ride much better on the highway especially. Mine has been jetted, has a K&N air filter, D&D pipe and 3 degree timing advance. They are really nice bikes! The brakes are some of the best stock brakes of any bike I've ever ridden. The other bikes in the quiver are a 2004 1200 Sportster (jetted and piped) and currently working on a 1984 Honda VF750 Interceptor project, to be done by springtime. It was 42 degrees and a bit moist out today but was a great afternoon/evening to ride the FZ1, it handles the weather very well with Dunlops on it. Hope you got the air filter by now, let me know if you haven't, Scott
12-16-2011, 11:08 PM
#6
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Another thing I noticed is engine braking on the FZ was very little compared to mine. Goes to figure. No wonder why all these CCT failures happen on these Hawks. What a huge load on them.
12-17-2011, 07:24 AM
#7
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I can do a whole canyon run without touching the brake, if I know the road well. I like to punch it hard out of corners, but I usually don't take it up to 100 mph in the straights, might be a CHP or Sheriff coming around the corner ahead.
I got nailed that way in Palos Verdes last year, "vehicle to vehicle radar". I punched it in 2nd coming out of a corner, and there he was coming down the hill. 66 in a 35. That cost me $475, and no traffic school allowed, plus insurance went up a notch this year.
Yeah, the engine braking of the Hawk is great.
12-17-2011, 08:41 AM
#8
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One of the things I enjoyed doing was "backing-in" the VTR. Actually, not quite Supermoto style but having the spinning rear wheel leave a nice black strip as I gently dropped it down from 4th to 2nd.
But with the clip on style bars it made it dangerous. Wide dirt-bike style bars would make it so easy. On my current bike, it has the dirt-bike bars and "backing" it in is addicting.
Miguel
But with the clip on style bars it made it dangerous. Wide dirt-bike style bars would make it so easy. On my current bike, it has the dirt-bike bars and "backing" it in is addicting.
Miguel
12-17-2011, 10:25 AM
#9
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I had the same oppurtunity a few years back. Good friend on mine who has his own bike shop & I were on a three day bike ride. We traded off for awhile thru the northwest Arkansas mountains. I can sum it up as BORING. The FZ1 was just too smooth. Thru the years I've owned several I-4's, but since buying my 01 SH in 02 I don't think I'll ever be happy with another I-4.
12-17-2011, 04:58 PM
#11
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My brother rides a 1st gen FZ1. It was a good bike until he re-sprung it with correct springs for his weight on both ends, now it is a fantastic bike. After riding it in October I came home and upgraded my brakes and will do fork springs as soon as I can. After the upgrade, there was nothing my SH did as well as his FZ1.
12-18-2011, 10:28 PM
#14
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My brother rides a 1st gen FZ1. It was a good bike until he re-sprung it with correct springs for his weight on both ends, now it is a fantastic bike. After riding it in October I came home and upgraded my brakes and will do fork springs as soon as I can. After the upgrade, there was nothing my SH did as well as his FZ1.
I am shifting about the same time his power is just coming on.
Last edited by Matt_Hawk; 12-18-2011 at 10:47 PM.
12-19-2011, 05:43 AM
#15
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Edit: I'm sorry, this reads more harshly than I intended. I know the FZ1 is faster than my SH and I don't care. I like the character of the SH, just like everyone here.
Last edited by davidka; 12-19-2011 at 07:30 AM.
12-19-2011, 07:07 AM
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12-19-2011, 07:38 AM
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One need remember that the first generation FZ1`s (carbureted) engine is derived frm the original "long stroke" 98 R1 engine while the second-gen FZ1`s engine is derived from the short-stroke fuel injected 2004 R1 mill. They are both I4s, have five-valve heads and derived from supersports, but that is where the similarities end. Although my only expsore to an FZ1 was short ride on a Gen II, the tests I read clearly mention that the later edition was peakier while also having higher peak number (hp anyhow, not sure about the torque).
12-19-2011, 01:36 PM
#19
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The point is our Hawks make great torque down low.
We can use the PULL for short bursts during commuting and feel the rush of speed.
I rode the Gen 1 FZ. To have that one pull the same, you need to be at higher speed= ticket time.
Simple.
The Gen 2 may be different. The FZ series does so many things very well and much better than our bikes- which is why it out sold the Hawk a thousand to one when it was released.
However, these old Hawks have a character the FZ can't deliver.
We can use the PULL for short bursts during commuting and feel the rush of speed.
I rode the Gen 1 FZ. To have that one pull the same, you need to be at higher speed= ticket time.
Simple.
The Gen 2 may be different. The FZ series does so many things very well and much better than our bikes- which is why it out sold the Hawk a thousand to one when it was released.
However, these old Hawks have a character the FZ can't deliver.
12-19-2011, 01:37 PM
#20
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I should note that while I was behind my VTR, I watched him slide the back end twice on downhill corner entries from straights. I thought he was too hard on the rear brake. Nope. He had been downshifting from high rpm with a closed throttle. The back torque stepped the rear end. I do that sometimes too and remain in total control just as he did... but- it sure looks hairball from a spectators point of view. The FZ1 brakes were better.
This is also the reason why you need to replace them on any, new to you, SH as the last person who owned might have done this type of thing.
Slamming downshifts, with the throttle closed, is not only bad form it is also very hard on the drive train.
12-19-2011, 01:39 PM
#21
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One need remember that the first generation FZ1`s (carbureted) engine is derived frm the original "long stroke" 98 R1 engine while the second-gen FZ1`s engine is derived from the short-stroke fuel injected 2004 R1 mill. They are both I4s, have five-valve heads and derived from supersports, but that is where the similarities end. Although my only expsore to an FZ1 was short ride on a Gen II, the tests I read clearly mention that the later edition was peakier while also having higher peak number (hp anyhow, not sure about the torque).
12-19-2011, 03:35 PM
#22
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It certainly wasn't my chain maintenance skills... wipe it off with an old sock, then spray on lube. It had a number of tight links when I replaced it. I'm taking better care of my replacement chain though.
12-20-2011, 11:50 PM
#23
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I'm sure that rev matching is a reason why my OEM chain lasted 41,629 miles, and still wasn't stretched into the "replace" zone on the swingarm.
It certainly wasn't my chain maintenance skills... wipe it off with an old sock, then spray on lube. It had a number of tight links when I replaced it. I'm taking better care of my replacement chain though.
It certainly wasn't my chain maintenance skills... wipe it off with an old sock, then spray on lube. It had a number of tight links when I replaced it. I'm taking better care of my replacement chain though.
Wow....that's a long time on a chain.
My 2008 Triumph Speed Triples 530 chain went 17,000 and I thought that was long. That is an awesome bike by the way....if you get a chance I recommend it.
12-21-2011, 01:31 AM
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Keep the chain clean, ride smooth and you would be surprised how long the chains and sprockets last on this bike, when normally twins tear them up...
12-21-2011, 11:29 AM
#25
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It's the ride smooth part that saves it.
I use that Bel Ray chain lube every 300 miles. Takes like 2 minutes.
Then every thousand miles I clean with kerosene.
That stuff works really well and dries in a white film...so you can see where you've put it.
I use that Bel Ray chain lube every 300 miles. Takes like 2 minutes.
Then every thousand miles I clean with kerosene.
That stuff works really well and dries in a white film...so you can see where you've put it.
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