cliby

I'm not sure where the truth is in the origins of that video. I first saw it on CNN here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OCJn9XEfhU

then read later that a local radio station had arranged the whole thing with the guy as a way to bring up the issue (proposed ban on assault weapons, or protests to bans). Then MSNBC misportrays it in their early show.

its all a joke and if you think you know where the propaganda starts/ends you are fooling yourself. At the same time if it doesn't make a person slightly nervous that someone can be walking around with an assault weapon in a crowded public place, they have their head in the sand.

reading this thread and how the govment is going to take all our stuff reminds me of listening to my relatives in the late 60's/early 70's building their shelters and stashing food, guns and ammo for when the revolution comes. I bet they still have them. And for those that think that the men in uniforms will just do the right thing when the govt comes to do that, and not what they are told to do, read a history book. of just about any country you want to pick.

netav8tor

false, see link. http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/taxreturns.asp


a list of pro-RKBA news and information media sources separate from RKBA groups.

Heres a start -

http://www.guntalk.com/site.php

http://gunrightsradio.com/

http://www.downrange.tv/


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Congress.org

netav8tor

more...

List of 2A activist groups
National Organizations

National Rifle Association: http://www.nraila.org/
Gun Owners of America: http://www.gunowners.org/
Second Amendment Foundation: http://www.saf.org/
Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms: http://www.ccrkba.org/
The Second Amendment Sisters: http://www.2asisters.org/
Women Against Gun Control: http://wagc.com/index.html
Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership: http://www.jpfo.org/
Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership: http://www.claremont.org/projects/pr...ect_detail.asp
The Pink Pistols: http://www.pinkpistols.org/
Armed and Secure: http://www.armedandsecure.org/

State Organizations

Alabama
None that I can find!

Alaska
None that I can find!

Arizona
Arizona Citizens Defense League: http://www.azcdl.org/
Arizona State Rifle & Pistol Association: http://www.asrpa.com/

Arkansas
Arkansas Rifle & Pistol Association (almost defunct!): http://www.arpa-online.org/
Arkansas Concealed Carry Association: http://www.arkansascca.org/index.html

California
Gun Owners of California: http://www.gunownersca.com/
California Rifle & Pistol Association: http://www.crpa.org/
The Alliance for Civil Rights: http://www.tacr.us/
The Golden State 2nd Amendment Council: http://www.gs2ac.com/

Colorado
Rocky Mountain Gun Owners: http://www.rmgo.org/
Pike's Peak Firearms Coalition: http://www.ppfc.org/

Connecticut
Gunsafe: http://gunsafe.org/

Delaware
Deleware State Sportsmen's Association: http://www.delsports.net/

District of Columbia
Nothing I can find!

Florida
The Second Amendment Coalition of Florida: http://www.sacfla.org/

Georgia
Georgia Sport Shooting Association: http://www.gssa.com/
Georgia Carry.org: http://www.georgiacarry.org/

Hawaii
Hawaii Rifle Association: http://www.hawaiirifleassociation.org/

Idaho
None that I can find!

Illinois
Illinois State Rifle Association: http://www.isra.org/
Will County Grassroots Division: http://willcounty.isra.org/
Guns Save Life (.com): http://www.gunssavelife.com/
Shelby County Grassroots Committee: http://www.one-eleven.net/~jaw/

Indiana
None that I can find!

Iowa
None that I can find!

Kansas
The Kansas Sportsmen's Alliance: http://www.theksa.com/

Kentucky
Kentucky Coalition to Carry Concealed: http://www.kc3.com/

Louisiana
None that I can find!

Maine
Main Gun Owners Association: http://www.mgoa.com/

Maryland
Maryland Citizen's Defense League: http://www.mcdl.org/
Maryland Shall Issue: http://www.marylandshallissue.org/
Maryland Citizens for RKBA: http://www.mcrkba.org/
Montgomery Citizens for a Safer Maryland: http://www.mcsm.org/source.html

Massachusetts
Gun Owner's Action League: http://www.goal.org/
Lawful and Responsible Gun Owners: http://www.largo.org/

Michigan
Shooter's Alliance for Firearms Rights: http://www.firearmsalliance.org/
Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners: http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/
Michigan Rifle and Pistol Association: http://www.michrpa.com/

Minnesota
Minnesota Concealed Carry Reform: http://www.mnccrn.org/

Mississippi
None that I can find!

Missouri
Western Missouri Shooter's Alliance: http://www.wmsa.net/
Gateway Civil Liberties Alliance (St. Louis): http://www.gclastl.org/
Second Amendment Coalition of Missouri: http://www.sacmo.org/

Montana
Montana Shooting Sports Association: http://www.mtssa.org/

Nebraska
None that I can find!

netav8tor

Nevada
Gun Owners of Nevada: http://www.gunownersofnevada.com/

New Hampshire
Gun Owners of New Hampshire: http://www.gonh.org/

New Jersey
New Jersey Coalition for Self Defense: http://www.njcsd.org/
Gun Owners of New Jersey: http://www.gunownersnj.org/

New Mexico
The New Mexico Shooting Sports Association: http://www.nmssa.org/

New York
New York State Rifle & Pistol Association: http://www.nysrpa.org/
Shooter's Committee on Political Education: http://www.scopeny.org/
Sportsmen's Association for Firearms Education: http://www.nysafe.org/

North Carolina
Grass Roots North Carolina: http://www.grnc.org/

North Dakota
None that I can find!

Ohio
Ohioans for Concealed Carry: http://www.ohioccw.org/
Buckeye Firearms Association: http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/
People's Rights Organization: http://www.peoplesrights.org/

Oklahoma
None that I can find!

Oregon
Oregon Firearms Federation: http://oregonfirearms.org/
Oregon State Shooting Association: http://www.ossa.org/
Oregon Gun Owners: http://www.ogo.org/

Pennsylvania
Pennsylvania Citizens Defense League: http://themrollers.com/

Rhode Island
None that I can find!

South Carolina
Grass Roots South Carolina: http://www.scfirearms.org/
Gun Owners of South Carolina: http://www.gosc.org/

South Dakota
None that I can find!

Tennessee
Tennessee Firearms Association: http://www.tennesseefirearms.com/

Texas
Texas Citizens Defense League: http://www.txcdl.org/
Texas State Rifle Association: http://www.tsra.com
Peaceable Texans for Firearms Rights: http://www.io.com/~velte/pt.htm

Utah
Utah Shooting Sports Council: http://utahshootingsports.com/

Vermont
None that I can find!

Virginia
Virginia Citizens' Defense League: http://vcdl.org
Virginia Gun Owner's Coalition: http://www.vgoc.org/

Washington
None that I can find!

West Virginia
WV Citizens Defense League: http://www.wvcdl.org/

Wisconsin
Student Alliance for Firearm Education & Responsibility: http://safer.rso.wisc.edu/index.html
Wisconsin Rifle and Pistol Association: http://www.wrpa.com/
Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association: http://www.wisconsinconcealedcarry.com/

Wyoming
None

CentralCoaster

Yes, it was a setup to draw attention to gun owner rights, and it worked. MSNBC didn't "misportray" it any more than Obama "miscalibrated" his words. MSNBC intentionally edited the video to say what they wanted.

Yes, but it makes me more nervious when some dipshit self-serving politician gets to tell me when, where and how I can't carry or own a firearm. If someone can carry and use a firearm safely, I don't really have anything to worry about. Do cops walking around in crowded places make you nervous because they have a gun?

cliby

Yes, but it makes me more nervious when some dipshit self-serving politician gets to tell me when, where and how I can't carry or own a firearm. If someone can carry and use a firearm safely, I don't really have anything to worry about. Do cops walking around in crowded places make you nervous because they have a gun?[/QUOTE]



in the US? me? no. but I have many minority friends in certain parts of the country where the answer is yes (different issues of course). But it raises a good point and part of my point. Cops are at least presumably trained and screened intensively and ideally they are tested. I can't make any of those assumptions about a guy on the street - particularly his/her abiilty to prevent someone from taking the weapon away from him who might not have anything. I don't want a soccer mom driving an 18 wheeler and I don't want a dipshit carrying something they don't have adequate training to use or safeguards to keep it in their safe possession either. You guys with military backgrounds or long history of gun use/training are one thing. but you ought to think outside your own situation and extrapolate it to much of the general public - safe responsible ownership of guns isn't incompatible with reasonable limits or restrictions either.

CentralCoaster

What your saying makes perfect sense. And I fully support proper gun training, driver training, and anything else where someone gets their hands on something capable of doing lots of damage. I also presume cops have good control of their weapon, but they often have poor control of their ego, which can be just as dangerous.

But I think the main reason it makes you nervous is simply because you don't see it very often. If it was more commonplace for people to openly carry weapons, you might have a different mindset. But it isn't and most people seem to be willing to surrender that ability to the government and police because they think carrying weapons is sooo 19th century. Maybe they think it is, but the fact that a person exercising their freedoms can now be considered suspicious for not blending in with the new status quo, it sets a dangerous precedent, because when a "peace" officer has reasonable suspicion, it starts giving him more legal cause to infringe upon what used to be your rights.

Yesterday for example, I made a Border Patrol agent nervous because I didn't want to tell him my personal business. He thought my behavior was suspicious not because I was doing anything wrong, but more likely because it was different from everyone else just bends over and answers their prying questions out of fear of being searched/detained.

cliby

Maybe true. I certainly didn't grow up around them. I think given my general lack of faith in the average person ability to control dangerous things ( ala squid on a h'busa) I would still feel better if they only shot one shot at a time beteen reloads!

Saw your border post. So how did you feel about that boston prosessor awhile back.

lazn

Cliby: I respectfully disagree with you on so many issues here.

First, passing a law to make all firearms single shot will do nothing to deal with the already illegal weapons in criminals hands. And it will make self defense weapons useless. If two people break into my house with intent to harm, I want to be able to put enough lead in front of me to stop them both.. (and one each probably won't do it)

When someone is in the mindset to commit a crime, why would a law about weapons stop them? They are already breaking the law. (and illegal weapons are EASIER to get then legal ones already) Passing laws do nothing, enforcing laws is the key, and there are already over 20,000 firearm laws on the books in the USA. Cops the DEA, BATF etc are already overwhelmed and passing more laws won't magically make them able to disappear the (again already illegal) weapons out of criminal hands. (less than 1% of firearms used in a crime was legally purchased if I remember that stat correctly)

I have lived in countries (in Africa) where private firearms were 100% illegal, however criminals there were better armed than the average criminal here. (they had fully automatic AKs)

Plus a technology can't be uninvented. Anyone with basic machine shop tools can easily make a fully functional firearm in an afternoon. (I know someone who has, and I think that is legal so long as you don't sell it)

FYI: Cops accidentally kill more people with bad shots than civilians do each year. (but then again they shoot in bad situations more too)

I generally only shoot at the range. (or on private property at a intentional target) I have never been in a situation where I have had to use a firearm to protect anyone. I hope to never have to. However I would rather have the option of defending myself and others if needed.

I have taken firearm safety training (self defense, taught by cops) and intend to take more, since I believe training is in my best interest. (I also take rider training though I have been riding motorcycles since I was 4, and shot my first gun at 6) Yes there are yahoos out there who don't train, but really they don't scare me much. It is the people who have intent to harm that are the real problem, far more than some dumb person who is more likely to hurt himself than I.

CentralCoaster

I went to an indoor shooting range for the first time recently. I didn't feel uneasy at all in there. In fact, it was a little refreshing. Nobody is going to **** with anyone when there's a building full of people packing heat. If anything, I felt a little nervous of myself, that I might accidentally not handle the gun right or carry it right. Obviously this is different than any public place, as you might expect a shooting range to be full of responsible gun owners.

I talked to a coworker from Poland, where she says you basically can't have a gun anywhere. She went to the shooting range for the first time, with her husband, and she said exactly the opposite. She was very very nervous being surrounded by people with guns. "What if they want to shoot me?" or "What if they are crazy?"

She's been raised in an environment where the majority thinks only criminals, lunatics, and cops have guns.

And the more the gubbermint takes away gun owner rights, the more true that will become.

CentralCoaster

YOU NAILED IT RIGHT THERE.

This is a common misconception. And it can be applied to so many other things.

Driving with cell phones for example, there's already laws against driving distracted and wandering into oncoming traffic. But clearly that isn't properly enforced or detterred against. So people scream for a new law to ban cell phones.

There's already laws against damaging personal property. But they aren't enforced properly. So instead they make a new law that says no skateboarding here there and everywhere. Is skateboarding wrong? No. Is grinding on private property and causing damage? Yes.

Littering on the beach is against the law. Smoking isn't. But they don't enforce the littering and the beach is full of cigarette butts. So instead they just banned smoking on all beaches down here entirely.

Last I checked, shooting someone that is not a threat to your life, is against the law too. Why not just enforce that one? And have a big enough penalty to deter more people from doing it in the first place?

Passing MORE laws that can't be enforced properly only makes it worse. Because then you get even more people screaming, "there should be a law against ____________!" And so they make a new law.



The purpose of a law should be to affect or deter the behavior of the wrongdoer. Yet it seems like most laws only have an affect on the people that aren't harming anyone.

nuhawk

It's almost gone the other way that the more jobs you provide, the more revenue that you create for local, state, and federal taxing agencies the bigger target you are. Especially if your wasm.