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Used Oil Analysis

Old 11-02-2016, 07:00 AM
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Used Oil Analysis

Having not see one here before I bit the bullet and sent in a sample to Blackstone Labs. My rational is to see just how long I can run the M1. The stuff is too expensive to dump early.
The trans shifts better with M1 and that better shifting lasts longer than Rotella 3T. If I can get 6-7k miles or so out of the M1 I'll be good with the cost trade-off as the M1 is about 4X the price of the Rotella. That means I would have to run the M1 10k miles to be equal in cost, and I wouldn't comfortable with that long an interval.
The big question is where is the aluminum coming from. The lab suggested pistons, but my thinking it is the cam journals. Any thoughts? I have manual CCTs and they are adjusted to what was posted on one of the threads about the amount (don't remember and too lazy to look it up) of slack in the chain. Maybe that was not enough?
So here is the report.
98 HONDA-092916-signed-signed.pdf
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Old 11-02-2016, 07:35 AM
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The aluminum is not likley from the cam journals unless they are trashed, that's an easy check..

More likley is pistons or clutch basket ..as the clutch basket is a easy check, I'd do that. Basket finger wear is common,,,and a self licking ice cream cone,..the worse it gets the faster it wears as the aluminum plate tabs bump past the notches in the aluminum basket fingers.
Pistons..well that would be dry start, hard use cold start, or piston speed in excess of what the lube package and protect from.....
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Old 11-02-2016, 01:42 PM
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I agree with Erik. The clutch basket would be my first guess.

For used oil analysis, you can also use,
AMSOIL Oil Analysis Services
or
Oil Analysis & Oil Testing Services - Oil Analyzers, INC.

I haven't personally used Amsoil or OAI, just Blackstone. I'll be using them again soon after my engine is broken in.
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Old 11-02-2016, 05:15 PM
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Good to know and I hope you follow up on a longer run. I start feeling notchy shifts and it usually ends up happening around 3-3500 mile intervals. You may very well end up prolonging my change schedule with the scientific data... Thanks for sharin'!

Here in the states M1 costs me just under $10 usd per quart.
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Old 11-02-2016, 08:49 PM
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Adjust the valve lash and check the cam journals.

Do a vacuum leak down test and a dry and wet compression test.

I'm a Cubs fan and could not watch the 9th inning because Madden made two very bad moves, taking out Hendricks, not then leaving in Lester in for the 8th.

Game may be rained out!
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Old 11-02-2016, 09:01 PM
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So, if Madden makes the right moves, your engine will be okay. Everyone knows this.
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Old 11-03-2016, 06:44 AM
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Cubs Win!

Originally Posted by CruxGNZ View Post
So, if Madden makes the right moves, your engine will be okay. Everyone knows this.
Maddon screwed up a 4th and 5th time but they won anyway!

My original engine only has 106,000 miles on it but I will test it's oil next change. I think it keeps swinging because it wants to keep both my spare engines on the bench so to speak today of all days. Which I've been waiting for without knowing the first 4 for 62 years!!!

Cubs win and I still can't believe it!
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Old 11-04-2016, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by E.Marquez View Post
The aluminum is not likley from the cam journals unless they are trashed, that's an easy check..

More likley is pistons or clutch basket ..as the clutch basket is a easy check, I'd do that. Basket finger wear is common,,,and a self licking ice cream cone,..the worse it gets the faster it wears as the aluminum plate tabs bump past the notches in the aluminum basket fingers.
Pistons..well that would be dry start, hard use cold start, or piston speed in excess of what the lube package and protect from.....
Thanks Eric.
I'm easy on the bike overall and have used oil known to have an excellent add pack. The thought on the cam journals was due to when I adjusted the valves (6-7k miles ago) the chain was a bit tight. Which I fixed, and an oil change after that. So not that.
Why would the clutch be wearing so much at the relatively low miles? I'm not hard on it, I think. Since I have not seen any other UOA for a VTR, isw this the norm or I just have an early failing clutch?
Which brings up the question of what to do. Replace with stock and hope it was an anomaly? Or is there an after market that is more robust?
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Old 11-04-2016, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by xeris View Post
Thanks Eric.
I'm easy on the bike overall and have used oil known to have an excellent add pack. The thought on the cam journals was due to when I adjusted the valves (6-7k miles ago) the chain was a bit tight. Which I fixed, and an oil change after that. So not that.
Why would the clutch be wearing so much at the relatively low miles? I'm not hard on it, I think. Since I have not seen any other UOA for a VTR, isw this the norm or I just have an early failing clutch?
Which brings up the question of what to do. Replace with stock and hope it was an anomaly? Or is there an after market that is more robust?
I have not done a UOA on a SH, so no base to compare..and i cant do it on the oil that's in it as I have idea what oil is in there..i have some wide standards for oil in a street bike, and I go through so much oil in my bikes and those i service, when i need oil for mine it just gets ordered with what I need for someone else. That said..I need to do an oil change today...so i'll make a note on type and then send in a UOA when i get 3k on it.

On the rest, cart before the horse....... you dont know where the issue is....and I dont know how much raw aluminum = the numbers you got back...you also dont know if that that was a one time thing, and now with a new volume of oil the numbers will be much different.... IOW you need several UOA in a row to see a trend.

I would still take a maintenance day.... pull the fairing and valve covers..pop off each cam cap and have a look... pull the clutch cover and the clutch disks, and have a look. confirm or rule out those two items.

Get a second UOA (and I would do that after an oil change inbteween the first tested and the next, as a way to have flushed out any aluminum contaminates floating arounds in the case)

I have not found an aftermarket clutch basket for the VTR, nor am I aware of a significant issue woith them wearing or failing early. If and i say IF you would yours worn id put a new OEM one in without concern.

How do they wear early? Improper oil, aftermarket drive or driven disks made from a material that is incompatible with the OEM basket material. Use, lots of use...... Hard use (think max power launches)

but again cart before the horse ....take the maint day first.
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