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Tach not working and cam timing question

Old 06-21-2015, 02:55 PM
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Tach not working and cam timing question

OK so I got my manual CCT's in and re-timed the front cams as they were out from the tensioner going. The valve clearances were right in spec so nothing bent there. I followed the manual and they say to line up the marks (FI, FE, etc) so they're level with the head. I did this but it would seem they were both about 1/2 tooth off (with tensioners tight). I didn't see any spec for number of pins between marks like I've seen with other bikes. I had the same issue with both the front and rear being 1/2 tooth or so off. Now that she's up and running she doesn't idle smoothly on the front cyl at all but seems to be good off idle. I set up the carbs according to the guide here. The bike has 15k on it and Yosh slip-ons that I de-baffled and re-packed. The bike also has a K&N air filter and I installed new plugs when I had the valve covers off. I have yet to sync the carbs or do the TPS setting mod but I would expect it to run a little better than it does.

Also the tach is inop so I can't set the idle speed properly. I've checked according to the manual and I have battery voltage between GND and black/brown and I get battery voltage. But from yellow/green to GND I get like 0.09VDC when I should have battery voltage. Anyone have any ideas on either of these problems? thanks in advance.
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Old 06-21-2015, 05:57 PM
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Old 06-21-2015, 06:14 PM
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HAHAHA wolverine... the show hasnt even started and your all ready with your popcorn lol
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Old 06-21-2015, 06:17 PM
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I know what's coming!
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Old 06-21-2015, 06:31 PM
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Ok well I'll start...

You made a lot of changes at once, which is hard to get perfect on carb'd bikes, you will need tweaking to get it right...

As far as the CCT's are concerned, I'm happy to hear you removed the valve covers to do this. When you have the timing marks in place did you verify on each respective cylinder that it was in fact on TDC Comp, you can tell by the cam lobe position. There are also timing marks on the cam gears.

Second of all the Hawks "carb setup" is for a factory motor running the factory air filter, you will not be able to get the K&N to run right with this setup, that will take some serious tweaking to get right or close to right but has been done. K&N's seem to be the hardest air filter for most people to tune correctly (not talking about you wolverine ). Atleast you have a solid baseline to start with.

If your main issue is idle, you need to sync, any time you make any changes to your carbs let alone change everything on your carbs you need to sync. Carbs being out of sync will be most noticeable at idle.

As for the not being able to set idle without a tach, untrue. once you have your carbs synced and have a smooth idle you can drop your idle down until it starts laboring (dont know a better word) then slowly bring it up until there are no issues. Idle drop tests can be done by ear as well, a tach just makes it visual... there is more to syncing your carbs then that(read the manual), but this can all be done by ear and feel... trust me, I havent had a working tach for the last 4ish years.

As for the tach itself, could have a short somewhere or a dead ICU...
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Old 06-21-2015, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
I know what's coming!

I find the longer I'm on this forum I become nicer and more helpful... I'm sure I'm peaking on a bell curve though lol
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Old 06-21-2015, 06:41 PM
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My recommendation, throw a stock filter in there, sync, and sort out all running issues, then try and tune a K&N...

If the only electrical issue you have with the tach is not having power to the one connection on the back of the cluster it would be easy enough to jump power from one of the other connections on the back of the cluster... if you still have an issue disassemble the cluster and see if theres anything fried on the circuit board....
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Old 06-21-2015, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by scottiemann View Post
I find the longer I'm on this forum the more I post!
I fixed that for ya buddy. Haha






You know I kid
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Old 06-21-2015, 07:44 PM
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lol true story
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Old 06-21-2015, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SXRguyinMA View Post
OK so I got my manual CCT's in and re-timed the front cams as they were out from the tensioner going. The valve clearances were right in spec so nothing bent there. I followed the manual and they say to line up the marks (FI, FE, etc) so they're level with the head. I did this but it would seem they were both about 1/2 tooth off (with tensioners tight). I didn't see any spec for number of pins between marks like I've seen with other bikes. I had the same issue with both the front and rear being 1/2 tooth or so off. .
I can't help you with the tacho operation, but I saw the same offset between the timing marks on the alternator and the cam sprockets when I fitted MCCTs. With the timing mark on the alt aligned, I had this on my front sprockets:



Some feedback from the other forum assured me that this was normal and due to cam chain stretch (my VTR has 44000 miles). I've put 2000 miles on the bike and its running great,so I don't think your idle issue is related to the cam timing. More likely you just need to balance the carbs, I found resetting the TPS also made for a more "lively" response off idle.

Best of luck.
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Old 06-23-2015, 11:26 AM
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Cadbury - mine look just as far off as yours so it must be OK. I just wish there was a pin count like other manufacturer's use to make sure the cams are aligned to each other properly.


I took the valve covers off because the front CCT failed on the PO and I need to be sure the valves were OK. Luckily all the clearances were spot on so it would appear the chain just jumped on the cams as the timing was way the hell off.


I just ordered the factory vacuum needle from Honda so once that comes in I'll install it and get the carbs synched up. While I'm in there I'll put the stock air filter back in and do the TPS setting. It's a shame Honda didn't just put safety torx in there for adjustment purposes like other manufacturer's. Oh well - just one more thing to do lol.


It only runs rough at idle - it sounds like it's the front cyl that's cutting in and out which is why I was questioning the cam timing specifics. Maybe I'll just pull the covers back off and make sure there's the same number of pins between marks on the front and rear. Once I give it some throttle and hold it steady it sounds nice and smooth and it runs much better once it's warmed up.


There's a tick noise that is evident and changes with RPM as well. I did some searching on here and read that it could be the primary springs or front carb slide rattle. I used my stethoscope and it seemed to be coming form the front cylinder area so I'm not 100% sure.


As far as the tach goes one of those wires has to be the signal wire to drive the stepper for the tach needle. One is supposed to have battery voltage all the time and the other when the key and stop switch are both on. The third pin on the tach is ground. I pulled the tach assembly out and checked the PCB and it looked ok - nothing burnt, no corrosion, etc.
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Old 06-23-2015, 01:48 PM
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The marks that you can see on the cam gears should both line up parallel to the cylinder head; mine do, but not when the timing mark on the alternator is aligned. If you imagine the gears rotating slightly counterclockwise you will see what I mean I hope.

My VTR engine is also pretty noisy at idle, and with the engine off but in gear if I rock the back wheel back and forth I can get a clanking sound out of the clutch area which I think is the source of the idling sound. Once revved up it runs sweetly though. I think this is a case of "they all do that, sir".
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:09 PM
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Yea I'll check them againt his weekend just to be sure. One thing I always remember from having mt TLR is that TL = ticks loudly lol
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