twist

I realized I haven't seen any posts on steering head bearing adjustment which begs the question, are the steering head bearings adjustable? I ask because I've noticed the slightest feeling of movement when I use the front brakes. I don't detect any movement when I attempt to move the forks laterally. Am I being paranoid?

E.Marquez

They are adjusted on install, but not really a maintenance deal.

The OEM ball bearings are prone to slop upon wear..

The replacement tapered roller bearings are a nice replacement with less lateral clearances even when compared to new ball bearings.

IOW, replace your steering head bearings with some tapered ones.

smokinjoe73

Yeah actually just adjusted mine. Turns out just a couple measly times where you chop the thottle and sorta come down from a wheelie a bit hard are enough to jolt them into that tiny bit of freeplay.

But for sure go to the tapered rollers. They are like 10 times more robust.

Its not a tiny quick job though. Maybe a million or so tiny hammer taps, and removing the bottom race from the triples can be an integrity tester.

E.Marquez

If that caused a readjustment, they were not seated / adjusted correctly to start with.

chiknhauk

fyi,tapered rollers have a torque spec(preload).adj.spanners for the lockrings have a square hole for 3/8 dr.put torque wrench at 90 degrees to the spanner or the xtra length of the spanner if left straight on the end of the torque wrench multiplies the torque reading whereby a formula has to be used to get correct reading,but set at a 90 degree angle or "L" shape allows u to use settings on the torque wrench so set at 15 lbs. will get lockrings tightened to 15 lbs.,no math needed

CruxGNZ

No punctuation needed either.

smokinjoe73

So Eric, your supposition is that properly adjusted steering bearings will simply never come out of adjustment?

Sounds like something someone under 210lbs who rides on smooth roads, not in the rain or though northeastern winters would say (or think).

Wolverine

Yes they are.

No you are not.

If you can get the front wheel off the ground (jack w/ a piece of wood @ the oil pan + a rear stand), you will be able to feel slop in the bearings by pulling/pushing front to back on the wheel. The tapered AllBalls head bearings were one of the first mods I did when I got my hawk. The oe ones had slop and a slight detent I could feel when I had the forks off for service.

twist

Smoky, you're a funny guy, but I like you.

E.Marquez

No my opinion and experiences are if adjusted correctly, doing what you describe can not make them '"come out of adjustment".

Once the bearings are seated, and properly adjusted..

Unless you're wearing the bearing surfaces, stretching the steering stem, deforming the frame, deforming the bearings or the lock nuts are moving.,, there is nothing else to allow a re adjustment needed.

Short or wrecking the bike, tons of hours and wearing the bearing surfaces, or some extreme stunta deal... If tapered steering head bearings need periodic adjustment during the normal service life.. something else is going on...Thats not normal. If your talking adjustment needed every 10 years,, well, maybe.

Or at least it is not normal for any of my 6 current bikes or the dozens of others I work on, maintain, modify each year.

Roads in the state I live in today are anything but smooth, and I've lived in 6 other states previously, same there. I do not weight 210, but some of my riders do.... I lived in Oregon, you know the Pacific North Wet.... Yes I know what rain is and yes, rode year round there as well as I do here in TX.... And no.... Im not guessing, I'm simply relating my experiences and opinion.. Yours may vary...but I'll say, if you find YOU need to readjust your tapered steering head bearings often.. might want to figure out what your doing wrong

Tweety

Middle of the road here... I find that no matter how well I seat and adjust them on initial installation... About a month or two later of use, I need to tighten them down a little... But after that, I never ever had to touch mine again... Kind of like a "wear in" period... Could be what smokinjoe meant...

Wolverine

My experience is exactly in line with Tweety.

NHSH

+1 Same as well, besides wear doe's increase if you do what Joe doe's on a regular basis

smokinjoe73

For me in my experience, almost every older used bike has a lot of stuff out of adjustment. And head bearings on many (most) street bikes are out of adjustment.

Almost all the bikes friends want me to look at for them to buy have rattly head bearings.

They are mechanical parts that need to be adjusted, which predisposes them to be......................out of adjustment. (shock)

If they didnt, then this one spot on this one machine is the only situation where adjustable bearings somehow never degrade or tweak out, but then why would the wizards at all the oems have adjustment procedures?

I guess all thos millions they spent on all that R&D, and engineers are all way off.

Ron Popiel had it right.....set it and forget it.

So guys, DONT touch those head bearings. They dont need it. Even if you have headshake or rattle.

twist

this is what I needed to know. The bike has 22550 on it, I am second owner, the first owner was timid and barely used the bike because it was too much bike for him. Myself, I'm not into wheelies and other sqidly activities. Is it "normal" to feel a tiny little "bump" in the steering head when braking moderately? More like a little tick, or maybe it's what Joe describes as, "rattle" but I've ridden bikes with rattly head bearings and this isn't the same.

smokinjoe73

Twist, as stated above, you need to lift the front end of the bike (not with a front end stand). You can jack under it with a 2x4 or hang it from rafters with tie downs.

Then grab the front wheel and push/pull forward and back to check for freeplay.

8541Hawk

The Bay Area will make short work the stock ball bearing set up....... So, no you shouldn't feel a bump and swap in a set of tapered bearing when you can and the bike will be much happier.

twist

Thanks Joe, That's what I did and couldn't detect any play but the little bump I feel has my attention. I don't plan to tackle the replacement as I don't have a proper place to do the work. Besides, don't the bearings on the bottom bearings and race need a hydraulic press to be fitted properly? BTW, do races AND bearings need replacement?

twist

Hawk, many of the bay roads have been resurfaced but there are still hazards that take their toll. The coast road to Stinson beach is a dream just now, but North of there is hit and miss.

smokinjoe73

Yes for sure all races and bearings need replacing since ball and tapered rollers are vastly different.

IMHO it is not worth paying for the work (or busting you own knuckles) to just put ***** back in there. It is under engineered to me. The ***** indent the races and cause stiction. New ***** will do the same.

Tapered rollers are the same as are on the wheels of my van, so very robust. Go with those or really just adjust yours, they may have more life in em.

Wolverine

Real good advice, way to keep it positive.

8541Hawk

I've only been gone a year so I doubt they have changed a whole lot.

I found riding with them loose peened the races so once tightened you end up with a "notch" in the center.

So I would just replace them but that is just me.

HRCA#1

To add my 2C, what Hawk just said is what I used to see when I was a Service Manager at a Honda Dealership in PA. PA does mandatory vehicle inspections and one of the item on the M/C checklist was steering head bearings.

Nearly 30% of all of the bikes over 5 years old needed new bearings due to slop in the steering front to back or the notching Hawk describes. Many times the notching was bad enough that it was like a detent that hindered the steering from centering itself.

Needless to say we sold alot of tapered bearings even back in the 70's.

twist

I intend to go with the taper bearings, and I realized after I wrote the post that, of course I should replace races and bearings, duh! I've done it before on older bikes but had a decent garage to work in. Where I am now, we only have HOA patrolled security parking for the condos. While it's entertaining to watch the others heads explode when I do work down there, the fines can be a bitch!

NHSH

+1 Also totally agree that it is under engineered, if you going to replace them, do yourself a favor and get the tapered bearings, you wont regret it.

HRCA#1

Just to add to the conversation, back in the day as they say, the ***** were actually loose individual ***** that you would grease and set into the races.

Now days it seems the ***** are caged and if you look at MotoGP bikes they are using exactly that. The reason is the lower friction compared to tapered bearings which can handle high loads but have more friction.

The difference is that the MotoGP bike is rebuilt stem to stern after every race and sometimes during the race weekend so they can take advantage of the lower friction without worrying about wear.

CascadeRider

Glad to come across this thread. I don't feel any play, but my bike has tons of miles on it ( over 60k at least) and recently I get a little wobbling at various speeds (could be tires-- they're new.) And, this gets my attention:



So.. I'm assuming the OEM parts at ServiceHonda.com are NOT the newer tapered kind. Where do I find those?

Wolverine

Get on fleabay and search all ***** vtr...

CascadeRider

That wasn't so hard. Only $34, shipped.

CascadeRider

And @e.marquez is gonna head my way to help me do the job and talk about and drink beer.