Replaced clutch slipping - SuperHawk Forum

Technical Discussion Topics related to Technical Issues
Like Tree1Likes
  • 1 Post By E.Marquez

Replaced clutch slipping

Old 10-29-2018, 07:15 PM
  #1  
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 17
executioner is on a distinguished road
Replaced clutch slipping

Hey guys

2005 VTR1000f with 97,500kms on it.

I replaced the steel and friction plates along with the springs (after market) - believe they were the "Gecko" brand, in any event.

Since then, my clutch is now shipping. I was methodical with the removal of the plates and put the new ones back in the same order. New oil (Penrite MC4ST 15W50 motorcycle oil - fully synthetic).

I bled the clutch with dot4 as well using the old fridge pump trick.

Any thoughts why the clutch is slipping? Could it be that the oil is fully synthetic - I was thinking of swapping the oil back over to semi-synthetic. Only seems to be happening when I climb to the higher revs.

Any help will be appreciated.

Ta

executioner is offline  
Old 10-29-2018, 07:20 PM
  #2  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gettysburg, Pa
Posts: 4,384
Wolverine is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by executioner View Post
Hey guys

2005 VTR1000f with 97,500kms on it.

I replaced the steel and friction plates along with the springs (after market) - believe they were the "Gecko" brand, in any event.

Since then, my clutch is now shipping. I was methodical with the removal of the plates and put the new ones back in the same order. New oil (Penrite MC4ST 15W50 motorcycle oil - fully synthetic).

I bled the clutch with dot4 as well using the old fridge pump trick.

Any thoughts why the clutch is slipping? Could it be that the oil is fully synthetic - I was thinking of swapping the oil back over to semi-synthetic. Only seems to be happening when I climb to the higher revs.

Any help will be appreciated.

Ta
I've been using full synthetic (M1 4t) in my Hawk for 11 years. It does not make the clutch slip.
Has the hydraulic clutch system ever been rebuilt on this bike (master and slave)?
Wolverine is offline  
Old 10-29-2018, 07:29 PM
  #3  
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 17
executioner is on a distinguished road
No they have never been rebuilt - the only reason why I question that being the cause is because before I replaced the plates, there was no real drama. I replaced the clutch components because when cold, the clutch would slip badly, so I figured, new plates and a clutch bleed wasnt hard - so thats why I did it?

I only took the left cover off, replaced all the plates and springs, then put it all back together again. Bled the clutch from the slave cylinder with a pump from a fridge.

There is no signs of leaking from either the master or slave cylinder
executioner is offline  
Old 10-29-2018, 07:52 PM
  #4  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gettysburg, Pa
Posts: 4,384
Wolverine is on a distinguished road
I am totally unfamiliar with the brand you used. Do they have any break in recommendations for oil?
Are you 100% sure you have all the plates in the correct position?
Wolverine is offline  
Old 10-29-2018, 07:57 PM
  #5  
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 17
executioner is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
I am totally unfamiliar with the brand you used. Do they have any break in recommendations for oil?
Are you 100% sure you have all the plates in the correct position?
ARGH yes, they said to "soak" the plates in oil before installation, but I didnt see that (complete oversight).

What would the process be for me now? Take it all apart, soak the plates and then re-install? Or having the oil in the engine be enough for them to "soak" - but I guess, that would only ever be a portion of the plate, not the whole thing?

Link to plates: Honda VTR 1000 F5 Firestorm - SC36 05 Clutch Friction Plate Set - Gecko Parts at Wemoto - The UK's No.1 On-Line Motorcycle Parts Retailer
executioner is offline  
Old 10-29-2018, 08:28 PM
  #6  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gettysburg, Pa
Posts: 4,384
Wolverine is on a distinguished road
Did you get a stiffer set of springs in a kit? I'd definitely want at least new oem if not a stiffer replacement set.
Wolverine is offline  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:19 PM
  #7  
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 17
executioner is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
Did you get a stiffer set of springs in a kit? I'd definitely want at least new oem if not a stiffer replacement set.
Yep I got stiffer springs.

So what do I do in lieu of soaking my plates? :-(
executioner is offline  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:43 PM
  #8  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gettysburg, Pa
Posts: 4,384
Wolverine is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by executioner View Post
Yep I got stiffer springs.

So what do I do in lieu of soaking my plates? :-(
Last plate in the tabs correctly (not my pic)?


Seems to me you may have something amiss. If it were mine, I'd have to pull and soak BUTT, that shouldn't cause slippage IMO. Are your judder spring and seat in correctly?
Wolverine is offline  
Old 10-29-2018, 10:37 PM
  #9  
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 17
executioner is on a distinguished road
Yep I took note of that last plate going into the alternate slots...

Yea they seemed very much seated correctly. I guess, the only thing left to do will be to drop the oil and water again and re-check everything. Sigh...

Thanks for the tips. If you think of anything else please let me know,
executioner is offline  
Old 10-30-2018, 01:47 AM
  #10  
VTR virgin
Superstock
 
Cadbury64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 399
Cadbury64 is on a distinguished road
I think (but am not 100% sure) that the only reason to soak the plates in oil is to ensure they are lubricated for the first use so the frictions and steels can slide past each other when the clutch is pulled in. Obviously in use they get re-lubed by all the oil splashing around in the engine. I doubt that soaking or not has anything to do with your slip unless the extra initial friction caused some glazing of the frictions?

If the clutch is slipping you either have insufficient spring pressure or the hydraulics are not releasing fully in the master. There is a tiny bleed port in the master that allows pressure to release from the line when you let go of the lever, if that gets a clog then you can build pressure and end up with a partially disengaged clutch, normally gets worse with use/heat. So my suggestions would be give the master a really good clean, and flush fluid down from the master and out of the slave to blow any crud right out of the system.

A wiser man than me also pointed out for similar reasons that it is a bad idea to push brake pistons back and push fluid up to the master, as debris will settle by gravity to the caliper, and you can flow this back into the master which has a lot less tolerance for debris.
Cadbury64 is offline  
Old 10-30-2018, 06:26 AM
  #11  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gettysburg, Pa
Posts: 4,384
Wolverine is on a distinguished road
In an effort to keep your issue in one thread, Ill reply here. Brake fluid is hygroscopic. It absorbes moisture. If you have 20 year old fluid in there, Chance are it's looks like this.








Refresh the system first thing. Try to trace the clutch line and feel it for softness or extreme hardness, cracking etc.

Does the slip happen right away, when the engine is still cold? Reason I ask, a highly moisture saturated system could build pressure with heat, essentially pushing in the clutch.

Wolverine is offline  
Old 10-30-2018, 01:35 PM
  #12  
Thread Killer
SuperBike
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Geneseo, IL
Posts: 1,584
VTR1000F is on a distinguished road
Mmmm, marmalade.
VTR1000F is online now  
Old 10-30-2018, 02:44 PM
  #13  
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 17
executioner is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
In an effort to keep your issue in one thread, Ill reply here. Brake fluid is hygroscopic. It absorbes moisture. If you have 20 year old fluid in there, Chance are it's looks like this.








Refresh the system first thing. Try to trace the clutch line and feel it for softness or extreme hardness, cracking etc.

Does the slip happen right away, when the engine is still cold? Reason I ask, a highly moisture saturated system could build pressure with heat, essentially pushing in the clutch.
No it is gradual - but the fact that I have MINIMAL play before the clutch is engaged. As in, if i release the clutch ever so slightly it engages. Then as I ride, it will start slipping at higher revs ~4k and above.
executioner is offline  
Old 11-05-2018, 04:26 PM
  #14  
Member
Squid
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 40
YMRacing is on a distinguished road
Plates do need to be pre-soaked. Glazed them I would suggest. Take it apart, rub the fibers on a sheet of fine sandpaper, soak then reinstall.
YMRacing is offline  
Old 11-05-2018, 04:35 PM
  #15  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
E.Marquez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kempner, TX
Posts: 4,099
E.Marquez is on a distinguished road
As is common the answer to soaking clutch plate is yes, no, sometimes

Some need to be soaked in oil before use some do not but since none of them will be hurt by soaking in oil I think the best choice is just to do it and avoid the possible issue
ACE VenTRa likes this.
E.Marquez is online now  
Old 11-05-2018, 05:17 PM
  #16  
Senior Member
Back Marker
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 176
ACE VenTRa is on a distinguished road
Be sure you torqued the springs down correctly. Also, I forget if you changed the springs or not. If not, I would do so, measure spring height for an obvious difference. As for oil, without soaking them they may wear faster but not grab less. In fact, you wold likely have a grabbier clutch at first until they soak in. If you take it apart again, check the steels for warping or discoloration. I doubt engine oil is your issue, it is possible/likely that the old fluid is no bueno, but I think that would give poor engagement rather than poor dis-engagment. I think you'll find that either the springs are worn or the steels are warped leaving a gap, thus causing sli[[age.
ACE VenTRa is offline  
Old 11-06-2018, 03:28 AM
  #17  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
kenmoore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New South Wales Australia
Posts: 1,490
kenmoore is on a distinguished road
Result ?
kenmoore is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Chrisguilday
Technical Discussion
10
11-06-2018 06:57 AM
hangerbaby
Technical Discussion
49
07-22-2012 07:55 PM
firedog55
Technical Discussion
10
08-06-2011 05:02 PM
kevinmeller
Technical Discussion
11
05-01-2009 06:20 AM
XLSR-VTR1
Technical Discussion
10
06-28-2007 08:08 AM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Replaced clutch slipping


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:20 PM.


© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands