Jetting with full M4 system
Thread Starter
Seasoned tech
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 576
From: Issaquah, WA
Jetting with full M4 system
So my new to me Superhawk has a full M4 system on it. I notice it's got a flat spot around 7000 RPM when on the throttle hard and it pops real bad on decel. I'm guessing they never regetted it, or it's just off. Figure some needle shimming and pilot screw adjustment is at minimum in order. I've been doing some searching and not quite coming up with anything as far as base line jetting for a full system. Anyone have some pointers on where to start with jetting?
So far it's got a stock air filter in it as well but thinking going K&N or I saw another filter on this site where the whole filter is media instead of just the smaller square in the middle. Anyone find any real benefits to air box/filter mods on these things? I also found a site showing where a guy cut the whole top of his air box off and just kept the ring as a filter hold down ring. Anyone actually do this and notice any difference?
Anyone do any actual back to back dyno runs with their full systems specifically the M4 system? I know when I used to work at the bike shop where we had a dyno one of the other guys put a full system on his bike and only saw 1hp increase.
Thanks guys!
So far it's got a stock air filter in it as well but thinking going K&N or I saw another filter on this site where the whole filter is media instead of just the smaller square in the middle. Anyone find any real benefits to air box/filter mods on these things? I also found a site showing where a guy cut the whole top of his air box off and just kept the ring as a filter hold down ring. Anyone actually do this and notice any difference?
Anyone do any actual back to back dyno runs with their full systems specifically the M4 system? I know when I used to work at the bike shop where we had a dyno one of the other guys put a full system on his bike and only saw 1hp increase.
Thanks guys!
Banned
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,942
From: Lake View Terrace, CA
It uses the same jetting base line as anything else:
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...-set-up-24769/
Now if you feel the need to experiment with other filters, then you are on your own...
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...-set-up-24769/
Now if you feel the need to experiment with other filters, then you are on your own...
Old and dangerous
SuperSport
SuperSport
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 604
From: DFW Texas
Full M4 system? You didn't buy this bike did you?
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ank-god-28077/
Lol!
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ank-god-28077/
Lol!
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 344
lol:
10k BLUE H.I.D ,full M4 exhaust, CNC 6 position levers, pilot powers, solo seat cowl , L.E.D intergrated rear brake and turn,front L.E.D flush mounts, fender elimanator, tinted DB widscreen HONDA racing wheels
?
10k BLUE H.I.D ,full M4 exhaust, CNC 6 position levers, pilot powers, solo seat cowl , L.E.D intergrated rear brake and turn,front L.E.D flush mounts, fender elimanator, tinted DB widscreen HONDA racing wheels
?
Thread Starter
Seasoned tech
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 576
From: Issaquah, WA
UGH! Well you know I think I did! Saw that thread but didn't even look to see where he was from. I guess I need to go back through his posts and see what was screwed up! The guy I got it from got an R6 though. Said he wanted an R1 or an R6 and got the R6.
Thread Starter
Seasoned tech
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 576
From: Issaquah, WA
I'm just going to go back to the specs given in the carb set up link above. I think the pilots screws are probably needing adjusting and maybe the needles. That is after I fix the valves again from the cct bolts being left loose and it falling completely out of the engine.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
Best is to get it back to baseline, stock filter, stock air stacks, maybe 48 or stock 45 jets and go from there. A lot has been done to really be able to tune it properly not knowing how.
While some have had luck with K&N, a lot of people dissolve their problems just by putting a stock filter in (even on stage 1 builds).
While some have had luck with K&N, a lot of people dissolve their problems just by putting a stock filter in (even on stage 1 builds).
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 219
From: Prague - Czech
But 48 pilots and two standard long stacks helps run the whole thing too
Thread Starter
Seasoned tech
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 576
From: Issaquah, WA
Yeah Stephan I know pilots won't do anything for the 7K flat spot. That's why I was saying needles need some shimming.
7moore7 so the K&N filters don't seem to be a worth while investment? Or how about the filter I saw that the whole thing is filter media instead of just the smaller square section like stock? When I took the airbox off while getting to the CCT I saw the filter is getting pretty dirty so it needs to be replaced anyway so I thought about going with a K&N, but if they aren't going to be any better than stock I'll just go bakc to stock.
7moore7 so the K&N filters don't seem to be a worth while investment? Or how about the filter I saw that the whole thing is filter media instead of just the smaller square section like stock? When I took the airbox off while getting to the CCT I saw the filter is getting pretty dirty so it needs to be replaced anyway so I thought about going with a K&N, but if they aren't going to be any better than stock I'll just go bakc to stock.
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Back Marker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 219
From: Prague - Czech
I need to correct what I wrote. Bad backfires can cause lean air fuel mixture, it is hard to say.
I run only hiflo paper filter with burnie morgan mod (engine going smoother). I tried BMC filter and there were holes trough the range, with plugged one hole in front it was impossible get smooth torque curve.
As I wrote somewhere, I think that only way how to get aftermarket filter work is to have properly tuned Dynojet kit. PiperCross (foam) you ment I am not sure, never seen any relevant experience.
But I am happy with paper one, with main jets 180 and 182, two standard long stacks, 48 pilots, FactoryPro needles, and 16-43 gearing, it goes easily to the redline on 6th gear.
I run only hiflo paper filter with burnie morgan mod (engine going smoother). I tried BMC filter and there were holes trough the range, with plugged one hole in front it was impossible get smooth torque curve.
As I wrote somewhere, I think that only way how to get aftermarket filter work is to have properly tuned Dynojet kit. PiperCross (foam) you ment I am not sure, never seen any relevant experience.
But I am happy with paper one, with main jets 180 and 182, two standard long stacks, 48 pilots, FactoryPro needles, and 16-43 gearing, it goes easily to the redline on 6th gear.
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Yeah Stephan I know pilots won't do anything for the 7K flat spot. That's why I was saying needles need some shimming.
7moore7 so the K&N filters don't seem to be a worth while investment? Or how about the filter I saw that the whole thing is filter media instead of just the smaller square section like stock? When I took the airbox off while getting to the CCT I saw the filter is getting pretty dirty so it needs to be replaced anyway so I thought about going with a K&N, but if they aren't going to be any better than stock I'll just go bakc to stock.
7moore7 so the K&N filters don't seem to be a worth while investment? Or how about the filter I saw that the whole thing is filter media instead of just the smaller square section like stock? When I took the airbox off while getting to the CCT I saw the filter is getting pretty dirty so it needs to be replaced anyway so I thought about going with a K&N, but if they aren't going to be any better than stock I'll just go bakc to stock.
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MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,942
From: Lake View Terrace, CA
You only change the lift holes for short or aftermarket stacks as my set up thread clearly states.
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Back Marker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 219
From: Prague - Czech
I ran stock stacks, short and long. But when I changed filter back from BMC to Hiflo, there was significant improvement, so I continued this way. But at that time, bike was not properly set up following your guidence, needles were in wrong positions.
Thread Starter
Seasoned tech
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 576
From: Issaquah, WA
Nine times out of ten, the K&N (and other aftermarket filters, all of them) performs significantly worse than an OEM filter, provided the engine is otherwise stock... If you swap cams, valves and cylinders as well as the exhaust, the equation changes significtantly in favour of the aftermarket filters... You could however get lucky and be one of few that have a decent result, but with an OEM filter the odds are a whole lot better...
So are the high flow filters such as a K&N etc. good with a full exhaust system or only when you start going as far as new cams port work etc?
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