The reason things are that expensive is that the Norwegian gubermint has decided to tax bikes and especially sportbikes to death, so the "real value" of the bike might be equivalent to $5k-7k, but then they add on to that, and that translates back to used bikes as well...

The cost per working hour seems fairly reasonable, a bit on the expensive side but not much, but I agree, 10 hours is a really slow mechanic... I doubt it'd take me more than 4-6 hours once I had the parts... And I'm fairly slow... Especially when i take beer breaks... ;)

Have to agree with Tweety! Fixing the damage caused by a failed cct is really not the end of it all. It is a whole bunch easier going to manual units though. If you can adjust your valves with any degree of confidence you can certainly adjust a manual cct! The odds of making it 60k miles without a failure seem about as good as making it through your first 60k miles on a real sport bike without dropping it. If you don't have the mechanical ability to do the job find someone who does, HAVE THEM REVIEW THE INSTRUCTIONS ON THIS FORUM, buy them whatever mind altering substances they require and help them do the job. You will learn a lot and realize it is not brain surgery. Try to avoid blindly trusting the job to any old local dealer's shop if at all possible unless you are convinced the technician who will be doing the work has done the job on a Superhawk several times before. They are not likely to do the work with as much tlc as you would use...

+2.

now that the 4-week long muscle spasms in my lower bike ...i mean back... have finally today decided to surrender after weeks of regular stretching, ice, cursing, stretching, ice, heat, ice, stretching, cursing, stretching, bitching, moaning, and even more ice and more stretching, and additional amounts of excessive cursing and bitching and moaning i might be able to go back into my sweat-lodge of a garage and work on my VTR (Very Temperamental Bitch). oh sorry, that's VTB. hunching over the VTB every night for two weeks straight did not do my lower back any favors, just so you know. she's been aging like a fine wine for a good two weeks now patiently waiting for me to re-align the front cam-chain and check the valve lash. i have 2 head gaskets along with tensioner gaskets, those o-rings, etc. supposedly in transit. although, they should have arrived a week ago. 'better check on that tomorrow. i also have extra-long metric, yes metric :-!, feeler gauges on order that should have arrived over a week ago. what is going on here??

i expect that i'll pull the front and rear valves, etc. for good measure and measure things and swap shims, replace out-of-spec valves, prolly have Ace MC and Scooter do the stuff i don't have tools or brains for, since i've got everything stripped off anyway (good advice from Tweety. thanks again.).

contrary to popular opinion, riding my other bike at red-line through rush hour traffic actually relaxed the spasms in my back. no f**king sh*t. my wife doesn't believe this. she is almost as temperamental as the VTR. the hotter it gets, the faster i have to ride in order to keep from melting. i'm moving out of this godforsaken sh*t-hole people often refer to as "The Midwest." this summer is shaping up to be even hotter than the last summer that damn near did me in. "But it's a Wet Heat."

i think i'm finished.

--fred

Yeah, I think 10 hours is much too, lets just hope he doesn't meet any problems on the way... Thank you very much, cheers! :)

Amen to that! Sometimes I wish I live in Sweden...

Maybe it would have been cheaper for me to pay your plane ticket, and have you do it? I could fix beers too you know! ;)

Well, I can't... I think I will talk with the workshop about this, and then decide if I order manual APE's. Let's just hope the cct's in the new engine lasts the weeks in between ;)


Thank you fred, for making my day better! Your reply made me grin like an idiot ;) Move to western Norway, it is never warmer than 85 degrees in the summer, an never colder than 25 in the winter! I can ride 9 out of 12 months! :)

All I can say is see what others have said:

https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...al-ccts-25084/

They aren't "cheaper", they're less expensive for good quality. I happen to run the first two put in a bike (Kaw KLX and Zephyr), have for a couple of years and about 40,000 miles total. They are exactly how I would have wanted a kit had the one company actually gotten back with me. They didn't list them for my bikes and didn't respond when I contacted them. Oddly enough, they now list one for at least one of the bikes.

Only $78.95 for the Superhawk set with gaskets to Europe including shipping. USPS flat rate priority delivers within 10-12 days of shipping, and PayPal payment makes it fast, easy, and safe.

Canada runs $76.95 and the U.S. runs $70.20.

I figure why not make a good part and sell at a fair price. The process used makes that a fair price.

I sell them also.

https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...rs-sale-25095/

I am pleased to say that my Hawk is now on the road again with the new engine! The mechanic used the old carburettors with the jet kit installed, but everything seems to be working as it should, without any adjusting! :)

Is there something particular I should check / be on the lookout for after the engine change?

The cct's? ;)

Glad to hear you got it going again! Congrats!

Inadvertent wheelies are sometimes a problem. Keep your eye out for them.

I still have my head in the sand re the CCT issue. I know it needs to be done, but I cant do it myself and dont trust any shop to do it. I know a guy who races pro superbike and does all his own wrenching. I guess I could ask him but he is prob too busy.

Have to admit, I feel the same way.

When the front tensioner quits has nothing to do with how hard you are riding. Both times it happened while just cruising slowly and out of nowhere as the clutch is pulled or the throttle rolled off all hell broke loose inside the motor. Would really hate to see this happen while maintaining neutral throttle leaned over at the apex of a corner.......could be disastrous for more than just valves and pistons!

Well I have some auto tensioners in mine right now ;)

Yes I change them out from time to time.

Will I put manuals in? Maybe when I build the engine but will make that choise when the time comes.

Can the auto tensioners let go, well yes they can.
But I will also add that if you search through this forum, you will find more blown engines from improperly installed manual tensioners that from auto tensioner failure.

So should you replace your tensioners on a used bike you just bought or if you have racked up a good amount of miles on your bike? Yes you should.

Can you do it yourself? Well that is a question that will save you a lot of $$ in the long run.

Read the service manual. Do any of the steps confuse you or make you feel uncomfortable? There are a few steps that can be difficult as things like the timing marks on the cams can be hard to see and pretty easy to get off by 1 tooth if you are not careful. Also be careful not to confuse the "F" and "FT" mark on the flywheel.... ;)

If you are uncomfortable or confused, find someone to do it that has some references. V-twins are a little different an I4s and the person doing the replacement needs to know this.

If you are comfortable, then by all means go for it, just double check yourself at each step.

Which tensioner to install is up to you. One type needs to be replaced from time to time and the other needs someone that knows how to adjust it correctly.

One last point and no I don't have documented proof or any of that.
It is just what I was told by a very reliable source and something I have done and have had no CCT issues....

With auto tensioner:

1) Don't let the bike sit and idle on the side stand, this is hard on the front tensioner. (this falls under the I have no documented proof except what I have experienced with my bike)

2) Don't slam the throttle shut from over rev. Or in simpler terms, if you are at WOT and above 9K RPMs (or on the back side of the power curve or when the HP starts falling off aka "over rev") don't slam the throttle shut but roll off it. You can do whatever you want with the throttle anywhere else but don't just slam it shut from high RPM (which is pretty bad form anyways)

I've got over 300 tensioners sold quite literally world wide, no blown engines. Seems good instructions make it a simple process. One rider commented:
Wow, those are some complete directions. As long as you know which end of the screwdriver to hold on to, anyone can install it correctly with those directions. Thanks.

In my search of this forum I've only seen stuff relating to engines damaged when the front tensioner breaks. Please show me where to find the other. I must have missed it.

I will say it is hard for riders to believe the tensioner should be snugged up finger tight when adjusting them, before locking down the lock nut, but it is. After all, all they do is take the slack out of the chains, no need to cinch it down for that. All I ever emphasize is that point. Never overtighten. Fact is a tiny amount of slack is better than too tight. In the Kaws the tensioners let way too much movement with the chain, but they have some warning that the tensioner is bad. In the Honda it becomes Russian Roulette - can you time it to replace that front one before it breaks and how much is it costing each time?

To quell one last myth about manual tensioners, they do not require any major attention with the exception of when the cam chains are new. As the chains seat and wear in they may need adjusting in the first couple of thousand miles and maybe a couple thou after that, but once they're set they tend to stay at that point. I have over 10,000 miles on both my bikes without an adjustment. There's no noise from them, I listen frequently, just because. I've gotten similar feedback from a couple of Concours owners too, same thing, still quiet. One has 23,000 miles since installing manual tensioner with no adjustment needed.

When an automatic tensioner proves to be unreliable I kind of think it ain't "automatic" anymore. But hey, that's just my two cents worth I guess.

https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...uestion-25198/

See post number 7.

Here are the actual static adjustment instructions for the Superhawk from the instruction sheet, which are pretty much the same as on every tensioner instruction sheet I've written:

• Clean off mating surfaces, fit new gasket and new cam chain tensioner, turning the tensioner in finger tight by hand.
• Carefully turn the engine over counter-clockwise once to make sure the cam has not jumped time and a valve hit the piston. STOP TURNING IF YOU MEET RESISTANCE, you do not want to damage any parts. I’ve not had this happen before, but I have known of a KLX650 rider spinning the engine over with the starter before adjusting the tensioner and bending valves.
• Then continue turning while still finger tightening the cam chain tensioner to make sure all play is out, then back the thru bolt 1/8 turn and tighten lock nut. (static setting)

There is a fine tuning that can be done with the engine running, but the actual difference in adjustment is so small it's a choice whether to do it or not. On the in-line fours with the center cam drive it is usually skipped. I've found it's usually less than 1/6 turn, which is about .010" difference in movement with an M8-1.25 bolt.

Fact is the fine tuning with engine running isn't in the instructions I have for the Superhawk and they were borrowed from one of the VTR sites and lightly edited. Apparently the original didn't do the fine tuning with engine running.

As you see, not a lot of tricks there. If you can check valves you can do cam chain tension. Even the grip of the person doing the adjustment is so small in difference that it won't affect anything.

You're right, that's one... where are the rest?

I've seen several where the front tensioner broke, heck this thread starts out with "It's my turn"...


By the way, did you read post 1 and 10? I guess I did see this one. Classic case of someone not believing well worked out instructions.

I would disagree with this statement. A few (total) have damaged from improperly following the install instructions. I can only recall 2 off the top of my head, but can think of many more that have posted with sudden failures..

Yes, it is quite possible to mess up the install, but it isn't common.

Doing manual CCTs correctly is easier than changing out jets in your carbs, by far. edit: but worse consequences if you mess it up.

Not trying to resist or anything here, but many people asking about MCCT's don't check valves. It's not necessarily hard, but when you haven't done it before, there are A LOT of little things to keep track of that probably don't even seem like steps to someone who has installed a few. The instructions are pretty easy, yes, and they have a lot of checks to insure that you don't damage anything, but it's not as simple as putting gas in the tank or keeping the chain oiled.

I've installed manual ones, and I'm not arguing against their benefits, but are you willing to risk a working motor telling someone who you don't know that they are sure to install them correctly? Better to let them know the risks involved...

Agreed, not all should be in there doing the work. The thing is if they follow the instructions they should have no problem. If they can get in deep enough to have the cam cover off, engine rotated into the proper position to do the work, they certainly have the skill to do the tensioners from there. By then the intial prep will scare the heck out of anyone who shouldn't be doing it. I think most riders who have failures had the skill, but screwed up.

I think the one example of a damaged engine had the comment that really summed up the problems some suffer - ignoring or missing something in the directions. The whole idea that someone has the skill to get in and do the work, then ignore the instruction to only do a finger tight adjustment and "wrench it down" tighter to please themself, because they thought it was too loose is the root cause of the problem. It's like some knowledgable mechanical individual tightening up the drive chain because they don't like it wiggling up and down when the bike has no load on it, or worse yet, reducing the valve clearance because they don't like the ticking, both are formulas for failure. It's just one of those things one needs to either take by faith or to think about what is happening in the system that requires that kind of direction to understand it.

The comment I got from a customer in my earlier post was an oversimplification, but good complete instructions make for a relatively easy job for those who can use the tools. I will say that the Superhawk/Firestorm is a more difficult application than the in-line fours and even the singles are. It's all about the ability to have the timing jump. That instruction to get the engine set to the proper position takes up a fair part of the instruction - from there it is actually as easy as the part I cut and pasted, as I am sure you know.

Then there is also the fact that even knowledgable people screw up. I just got to replace two wheel bearings because I thought the one spacer on the floor was from another set of wheels that I was looking at trying to fit to my bike. WRONG! It was the spacer between the drive side hub bearing and the cush hub bearing. I damaged the bearings by pinching them down with the axle, not having any radial support on the cush hub bearing (the spacer slid in the ID) and actually had one cage break apart. I screwed up. I won't do it again. I will verify the spacers, but that's too late for my error.

Fortunately I scored a pair for about $10 from Fastenal - numbered double sealed bearings are numbered double sealed bearings and they carry them, allowing me to avoid having to order a set and wait.

The thing is I knew better, but didn't double check where the spacer went. I should have looked at my cush hub, but didn't. No excuse for poor work.

One side note:
I can not believe how many forum members on a variety of forums can not seem to find good mechanics at dealerships or independent shops. I do a lot of my own work, but I also know who and where the guys are that I would trust with any work I want/need done on car or bike. It is a matter of research and asking about. Especially if you can not do the work yourself. What good is it to say "I am afraid to do the work and I don't trust anyone else to do the work."? I know a former Honda sales rep who actually takes his CBX 120 miles away from where he lives to get it to the mechanic he feels is the best. (Fortunate for me that mechanic is a good friend who happens to work at the shop where I was in sales.) When in doubt do some digging about.

i'm not gonna screw mine up. Mark My Words.

Well here is another one : https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...lets-go-26128/

I could do the search and so that there have been a few in the last couple of years but I just don't have the time.

So you can believe me or not or you could always do the search yourself.....

Here's what was written with my highlighting:

Quote from Smokinjoe73: So if I didnt adjust (or install) the manual CCT correctly, what gets broken if the chain skips? Right now it runs on one cylender and blow some blue/white smoke. No mechanical crunching or bad sounds. Do I have to pull the motor to look at it ? What may have happened?


I'm not quite understanding how blowing blue and white smoke without any mechanical noise has anything to do with cam chain adjustment... :confused:

Sounds like something else entirely. When I dropped a valve in my old SR there was no smoking, but a fair amount of clatter.

From what I read, nothing has been diagnosed yet. Just discusson.

For a manual tensioner to allow enough play to skip there would be so much noise it would scare the heck out of you! :eek:

On the easy to access singles and in-line fours with side cam drives I've done the dynamic adjustment where the engine is running and the adjuster is loosened up until the cam drive ticks audibly then adjusted the ticking out. It is usually less than one sixth turn of an M8-1.25 bolt and one full turn works out to about .050" That ticking is a few thousandths of play on the cam chain. It would take a HUGE amount of play to have the cam chain jump teeth, I'm guessing maybe a half inch or so, but even if it was only a quarter inch the slamming around would still be readily heard with the equvalent of having the adjuster bolt on a manual tensioner being turned out five full turns (.050" x 5 = .250") from where it should be.

I'm thinking that thread is going to end up some other direction. My money is on the head gasket.

Well this is also going the way of most CCT threads. The whole, the sky is falling and you better change the tensioners because your engine will explode.

Also you have to admit you are a bit biased as you are trying to sell MCCTs.

With that, I'll try to restate what I said in my first post in this thread.

Yes I will agree the stock CCT's will fail at some point... So it's a good idea to replace them with either stock spare parts or APE's (or whatever flavor of MCCT's you prefer.) The service manual states valve clerance's to be checked at every 16k miles, and the bulletin I saw from Honda (no I don't have a copy of it but I would like think by now I would rate a little credit and believability on this board ) states to check the CCT's at those intervals, basicly if the chain isn't properly tensioned, swap CCT's... it also states to replace CCT's at x2 which is at 32k miles... Which is why I Have swapped out 2 sets on mine

This was a service bulletin issued in 98-99 to all certified Honda shops, along with a whole bunch of others (like the carb bowl vent line routing)... I'm not defending Honda... the design could most defenitly be better to begin with... But with proper care this shouldn't be a problem.

So IMHO most of the failures reported are not due to defective CCT's but a lack of maintenance. Though like any manufactured part, you can and will get a defective unit once in a while if you make enough of them.

Also, like I stated, I'm running the auto tensioners right now, yes it is the third set but I'm over 85K miles. Why do I run them, well because I'm lazy. Just put them in and remove the retaining key and your done and good to go for another 30k miles.

Do I have any issues with the manual units, no and yes I might put some in at a later date but either one will do the job if properly maintained.

I also have issues with the whole not pulling the front valve cover when installing a replacement tensioner, but that is a different story.

So run whatever you like but to in all the miles I have put on these bikes and as long as I have been around them IMHO the whole CCT thing has been blown way out of proportion.

No, I am not biased to sell tensioners. You can check my posts in all the Kawasaki forums where the bikes don't risk catastrophic failure. I tell them if it ain't broke don't fix it. I had one guy email me to buy one for his 09 KLR650 (no history of failures in general for the KLRs). I told him it wasn't worth doing unless he was positive the tensioner was bad. No sale, laying in my lap and I turned it down with my advice.

In other words for them if the cam drive isn't noisy don't put in a manual tensioner. Not all Kaws fail. I'm very up front about that. It doesn't make sense to replace something that does not destroy an engine unless you have to. But they give adequate warning that it has gone bad. The Kaws will progressively rattle louder in the cam drive giving at least a couple hundred to several hundred miles before things may start getting critical.

As for the VTR, a fair number of the owners and those familiar with them are the ones who are telling everyone that the front tensioner risks failure, which is apparently true. I'm thinking there are a number of riders here who WISH it was a case of being blown out of proportion. But they had the parts break, some before the suggested replacement interval so that was no help for them. I certainly would have a tough time not changing tensioners one way or another if I knew it could just crap out virtually instantly and risk breaking engine parts. That's just not a good prospect in my book.

I'm going to speculate and say the VTR is the only Honda that needs the "automatic" cam chain tensioners checked at that short an interval, and it's probably a safe bet. Having sold Hondas from 83-06 I don't remember any Honda requiring the tensioners be pulled and checked or replaced at that interval. I do understand the CBRs will have the tensioners progressively fail, but I can't say that for sure. I know some Suzuki and Yamaha units fail. I've got 30,000 miles on the KLX with the manual tensioner after replacing two "automatic" ones in less than 15,000 miles. The manual one is still working fine and doesn't need checked, that M8 isn't going to break or bend. It just doesn't make mechanical sense to have to do tensioners every 32,000 unless there is an issue with design... which there is.

Kind of makes me wonder the value of the automatic feature. Of course I know it's because of lazy owners. I have heard some SR500s that rattled like crazy - they have a manual adjust tensoner set up and clearly those bikes making the noise have never been adjusted. I happen to have an SR and learned about the adjustment system when I redid a top end.

By the way, that reminded me - the instruction I used for the Kaws was developed from the way the SR tensioner is adjusted. They have a hollow threaded adjuster with a nail-like rod that goes through the center with the head against the slider and the tip at the outside end of the adjuster. When the cam drive rattles a bit the chain is loose and the tip of the rod will be "dancing" in and out at the adjustment end.

The adjuster is turned in slowly until the end of the rod stops moving in and out. The chain play is gone and little if any tension is on the cam chain, the lock cap is put on and tightened to lock the adjustment. It can be done by hand or with a wrench since tightness isn't the goal, stopping the rod movement is. Much like finger tightening the manual tensioners for the VTRs and others are done. Just enough to get the play out. No extra tightening.

Yep. It's a bad design. At least on the VTR.

Here's what I did:
1) Install manual tensioners.
2) Adjust chain to proper tension.
3) Forget about it.
That was about 6 years ago.

Well the bias comment come from you making statements like this:
How can you actually come to that conclusion just by reading some stuff on the internet? The information actually needed to determine if the part failed or the failure was due to lack of maintenance is generally left out.

Case in point. In this thread, what is the mileage on the bike? How many owners did the bike have? Have the CCTs ever been changed or even checked?

Of course the fact that you are here selling a aftermarket replacement part also plays into it a bit.

Well you are only taking one side of the story in to account when you are making these statements. Of course the people with no problems are not going to be posting up about it.

Personally I have put over 80K miles on a SH and have had absolutely no issues with the tensioners.

You state that some bikes have had failure before hitting the 32K replacement mileage, could you tell me at what mileage they did fail and how many failed? What was the service history of these bikes also what were the production numbers for the bike? Without these numbers, it just comes down to speculation.


First talking about this bike or that bike really has no bearing on this discussion so why continually bring them up?

Then you can speculate all you want but let me ask you this, how many miles does the average rider put on there bike in a year?

5K? Well at that rate you would change tensioners every 6 years, not so bad.

10K? Still the interval is 3 years, still not all that bad.

Though it does seem that my original point has been lost somehow.

What my posts have been saying is quite simple, the tensioners are a wear item and do need to be replaced.

Which tensioner you choose to use is up to you. Both work fine. I have over 80K mile experience with them and have had 3 sets of them. With what my bike has been through, I am confident that I would have found a problem if one existed.

So once again, should the tensioners be clanged out, yes if you have reached the service interval or you get a bike that you don't know the complete maintenance history.

Which tensioner should you use? Whichever one makes you happy. This is not from speculation or reading the 'net but from personal experience.

If you put a lot of miles on the bike, you might choose the manual units. Then again, you can also stick with the stock bits as they also work fine.

Also don't think I'm picking on you or anything, this discussion has happened a few times in the past.

One other way to look at this issue..... has there been 500 reported "failures" on this forum? I don't believe so but we'll use that number to keep the error on the high side.

So there are 8,496 total members, so if there are 500 failures that would mean you are looking at a 5.8% chance of failure, even if you don't perform the proper maintenance. Even if there were 1000 reported failures that would only be an 11.7% chance of failure.

To say the stock units are a bad design is kind of ludicrous. Yes they could be better but they can and do work fine.

Do you really think that a 5.8% failure rate of CCTs is acceptable? I'm not saying that those numbers are accurate, but I don't think that 5.8% is acceptable.
That rate would be enough for me to take precautions. Oh wait. I did take precautions by installing manual tensioners which won't fail if installed properly.:)

And of that 5.8% how many were caused by not performing the maintenance? I would say 99% or more.

Also if you do a search for CCT failure you get 138 total threads, even though not all of them are reporting a failure.

So using that number, by this forum there is a 1.6% chance that you will have a failure, even without doing the maintenance.

Is that a low enough number for you?

So once again, run whatever you want. If you have concerns, then make sure you have performed the scheduled maintenance and your chances of having a failure are very small.

I believe that manual CCT's are a good way to go. What worries me are the threads where I've seen people write, "And then I heard a 'click'." The idea of tying down the chains to the upper cogs with tie-downs seems like the way to go. Thoughts?

It is true that they work just fine.

As for the click and all that, IMHO don't get lazy. What I mean is remove both of the valve covers and check the valve clearance while you are in there.

Using zip ties to hold the chain in place can help though I have never used them and have had no issues installing CCTs ;)

Yep. If you do it right zip ties aren't necessary.

i've had two stockers start to fail. Got my own manual ones in there now

You know 5.8% in a safety issue is grounds for court cases in accidents. Probably grounds for recall in automotive world. No one would tolerate a car that had to have the cam chain tensioner replaced at that 32,000 interval if they have chains. Belts don't get replaced that often. Just saying seems to me an automatic unit should last far longer than that.

My comment on replacement has to do with both on-line and the guy who came to my door to buy a kit after his front went caphlooie. If I had someone tell me, with some back up, that it was possible a part would break and maybe damage other stuff I'd be looking for a better part. Heck most people use that sort of logic when buying tires. Someone in a shop, at a track, at a restaurant, or on line says the Dunflop Roadslider will stick better than the Bridgerock Samarislice, that the 'rock slides easily. So they all avoid the 'rock and buy the 'flop. (This is getting really screwy and fun now.) They took advice from a source or two that they might think is trustworthy. That's where I get my comment on the VTR. If I think that front part is going to break, it's gone for what will be more reliable and less work and cost in the long run.

I will say I listened to the guys on-line in the forums when I ignored the noise in the KLX and figured the first tensioner was a fluke. A lot of the riders said, "All Kaw engines are noisy." Cost me a top end. I didn't buy it when I got the same response in the Zephyr-Zone on the 550. Once bit twice shy - I got the information needed and made the part that the letter guys didn't (and ignored my request to do so - a longer adjuster bolt with a GPz body), but made five extra. Since then it's mostly all been by request from the groups. No pressure, but I will comment when it comes up.

I guess there's nothing more to go over here. You like using the stock set up, replacing every 32,000, I like putting in the manual unit one time and the infrequent adjustments when the chain is seated in. I may see the one Honda Service Rep we had at the shop where I worked, this weekend at Mid Ohio. I can't wait to ask him about the VTR set up and service recommendations. I think he still is in Honda Service, known him since around 83. This could be fun!

I like doing this sort of discussion, it livens things up and makes me think. Heck I'd forgotten how I learned what proper cam chain tension (none) was, thanks for the refresher bump to make me think of the old SR. Gotta get that frame blasted and painted, the tracker needs to be done!

Well I only have this to say about the CCTs...

Manual ones are cheaper, last longer, and just as easy to install as OEM ones. Literally every difficult part of a CCT swap you have to do for the OEM ones the same as for the manual ones.

Sometime it feels like I am not even speaking English here.....
It is funny how you latched on to the 5.8% number when it was actually changed to 1.6% to show what is actually on this forum and that number can actually be made smaller if I wanted to take the time and weed through the search as things like the "Post Whoring Newbie Thread" show up in it. I'm just trying to keep the error on the high side to show how small the number really is.

Also that 1.6% number is with no maintenance. I wonder if you never changed the oil and you stood a 1.6% chance of blowing the engine if you would also say the engine or the oil was defective?

The car analogy is also very poor. Most bikes don't see anywhere near the mileage a car does. For most riders 30K is more than they will ever put on there bike or it will take years to get to that mileage (though you conventionally just skipped right past the 6 years or more the "average" rider would need to get to that mileage) so for most it would be a one time thing to replace them.

Also I never said I have a preference either way. In fact I have stated repeatedly that either type of tensioner will do the job just fine.

This whole thing is because of statements saying the stock units should never be used and you have nothing but hysteria to back up your claims.

Like I stated before the whole thing is blown way out of proportion.

Very true but some people don't want to deal with or feel comfortable adjusting them. Some have even blown up their engine trying.

So all I have been saying is that if you would rather have the convenience of the auto units, then go right ahead and run them as either unit will do the job just fine.

True, it is possible to mess up the easy part of the install. And consistently replacing the auto OEM ones will eliminate that issue.

But really we got way off topic here.

Thank you very much for that! I think I will change to a pair of new auto CCT's asap. As some people say here; I will not feel comfortable adjusting them myself, too much is at stake here, and lightning never strikes the same place twice, right...? ;)
Weird! I also had this problem with my old engine! Is the wheelies the automatic CCT's attempt to throw you off before they selfdestruct? :cool:
This seems like a good tip, will keep it in mind, thank you!
This also is a good tip. I have found out that I don't trust the mechanic at the Honda dealer here. I will try to dig deeper, maybe for someone specializing on v-twins...?

Lazn: You say that the manual CCT's and the automatic CCT's are equally hard to change, but 8541Hawk, you say that you run automatic CCT's because you are lazy, implying that they are easyer to change than the manual ones.

You say:What parts do you have to dissasemble from the motorcycle / the engine to change the automatic CCT's? And is it after this just a matter of removing the screws holding the CCT's in place, pull them out, and exchange with the new ones? What do you mean by "remove the retaining key?"

Don't think about the topic getting off topic, I think it was a good discussion!