Help with working out some bugs...
03-09-2010, 11:35 AM
#1
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
Help with working out some bugs...
I am working on a friends 98' superhawk that has not been started in the last 3 years. He remembers that it started running a little funny the last time he rode it. What that means, i dont know
First off i have never really been a carb guy. I am a FI guy...Anyway i decided to help him and get it running. So I changed the oil, battery, and took the carbs out and cleaned everything real good. I put the carbs in hot water with a little simple green and even put the carb and parts in a ultrasonic cleaner. Everything came out nice! I was hopeing that what ever issue he was talking about was carb related and after a nice cleaning everything would be ok.
I setup a iv style jug with fuel in it teed out to both carb lines so i could run it without the tank on and play around if i had to. I couldn't think of any other way of conveniently working on the bike with out the tank in the way. I plugged the vacuum line from the intake to the petcock.
The superhawk started with not much effort, but it seems to be breaking up slightly and then backfiring a little when i release the throttle. I took the air box cover off and it gets worst, probably because it runs lean when i do that. I also notice the vacuum slides move back and forth very fast when i give it throttle. I think whatever is causing them to open and close so fast is causing this issue. I havent checked the plugs yet because I am waiting for buddy to find hit spark plug tool that came with the bike. My sockets arent fitting between the head. Any suggestions on how to proceed and troubleshoot? If he cant find his spark plug socket would i have to get it from honda?
Thanks in advance!!!
First off i have never really been a carb guy. I am a FI guy...Anyway i decided to help him and get it running. So I changed the oil, battery, and took the carbs out and cleaned everything real good. I put the carbs in hot water with a little simple green and even put the carb and parts in a ultrasonic cleaner. Everything came out nice! I was hopeing that what ever issue he was talking about was carb related and after a nice cleaning everything would be ok.
I setup a iv style jug with fuel in it teed out to both carb lines so i could run it without the tank on and play around if i had to. I couldn't think of any other way of conveniently working on the bike with out the tank in the way. I plugged the vacuum line from the intake to the petcock.
The superhawk started with not much effort, but it seems to be breaking up slightly and then backfiring a little when i release the throttle. I took the air box cover off and it gets worst, probably because it runs lean when i do that. I also notice the vacuum slides move back and forth very fast when i give it throttle. I think whatever is causing them to open and close so fast is causing this issue. I havent checked the plugs yet because I am waiting for buddy to find hit spark plug tool that came with the bike. My sockets arent fitting between the head. Any suggestions on how to proceed and troubleshoot? If he cant find his spark plug socket would i have to get it from honda?
Thanks in advance!!!
03-09-2010, 11:50 AM
#2
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,132
The vacuum slides are supposed to open super fast.
The bike is very sensitive to airbox changes. Even putting in a K&N filter needs a rejet. So be sure you have a stock filter in there first. (and leave the airbox alone)
Does it have a stock exhaust?
The bike is very sensitive to airbox changes. Even putting in a K&N filter needs a rejet. So be sure you have a stock filter in there first. (and leave the airbox alone)
Does it have a stock exhaust?
03-09-2010, 12:25 PM
#3
Banned
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
Posts: 5,942
Yes the slides are supposed to be like that.
So a couple things for you. When you disassembled the carbs, did you keep the parts separated? The main jet and emulsion tube are different from front to rear carb.
Did you mess with the pilot screw setting? Do you know where it is set at?
Does the bike still have the PAIR system installed?
When you had the carbs out, did you set the TPS to the proper ohm reading?
For a plug wrench, I use a craftsman 18mm deep thin wall socket. You have to make sure it's the thin walled one or it won't fit in the head.
Cheers,
Mike
So a couple things for you. When you disassembled the carbs, did you keep the parts separated? The main jet and emulsion tube are different from front to rear carb.
Did you mess with the pilot screw setting? Do you know where it is set at?
Does the bike still have the PAIR system installed?
When you had the carbs out, did you set the TPS to the proper ohm reading?
For a plug wrench, I use a craftsman 18mm deep thin wall socket. You have to make sure it's the thin walled one or it won't fit in the head.
Cheers,
Mike
03-09-2010, 02:15 PM
#4
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
yes, The bike does still have the pairs system.
Thanks for the replys. much apprecieated!
03-10-2010, 06:27 PM
#5
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
I talked to my buddy and he said that he put a full exhaust on the bike and then he had honda put a k&n air filter on it, then jet and tune. He said the bike run great for years then it started to break up throught the power range a little. Then a electrical part in the right rear cowl fried and left marks on the inside of the aftermarket undertail. He had that replaced and it was back running but still breaking up.
So what i did today was i experiemented with the k&n. I put duck tape across the top of the filter and it ran good when i had about half the filter covered. It does have a slight hesitation once in a while when i blip it from idle but other than that it ran great.
So I would like to know your opinion on this, i think it might be because the k&n might of dried out over time and not maintaining it. I think it may need to be re oiled. Maybe all the oil dried up and the filter is really unrestricted right now letting a lot more air through. So I have to get some oil and try it. If not i am going to get a stock filter and try that.
any opinions? make sence? no, I'm out of my mind? lol
Also I dont think the petcock on the tank is working. Tried to start it with the tank and no good. I tried to put a vacuum on one side of the petcock and a positive pressure on the other side of the petcock and no fuel is coming out. I pulled the petcock and all the new fuel i put in came out.
Any suggestions? is there a diaphram rebuild kit or just replace the whole thing?
So what i did today was i experiemented with the k&n. I put duck tape across the top of the filter and it ran good when i had about half the filter covered. It does have a slight hesitation once in a while when i blip it from idle but other than that it ran great.
So I would like to know your opinion on this, i think it might be because the k&n might of dried out over time and not maintaining it. I think it may need to be re oiled. Maybe all the oil dried up and the filter is really unrestricted right now letting a lot more air through. So I have to get some oil and try it. If not i am going to get a stock filter and try that.
any opinions? make sence? no, I'm out of my mind? lol
Also I dont think the petcock on the tank is working. Tried to start it with the tank and no good. I tried to put a vacuum on one side of the petcock and a positive pressure on the other side of the petcock and no fuel is coming out. I pulled the petcock and all the new fuel i put in came out.
Any suggestions? is there a diaphram rebuild kit or just replace the whole thing?
03-11-2010, 12:56 AM
#7
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NY State
Posts: 667
Based on your symptoms - you have a clogged pilot jet / circuit. This assumes that the proper size jets are in there. I think stock pilot is #45? Main is 175? Can anyone verify this? Given your mods, the stock jets are too small (lean). Other posters have suggested #48 pilots, not sure about the mains - any suggestions here?
You mentioned that you did not remove the pilot screws, that suggests that the carbs may not be completely clean. The only way to clean a carb properly is with carb cleaner and air. I soak all the small metal parts (NOT RUBBER or PLASTIC) in Seafoam over night. All carb body passageways must be cleared out with carb cleaner and blown out with air, repeat a few times. The slighest spec of crud will have a negative affect. You should not not poke anything through the passageways - you can score the soft metal. If you think that the jets are really bad and can't be cleaned - replace them, although I have never had to do that. Maybe even get a new factory jet kit and do it all over if you are unsure if what is in there is correct.
I have not rebuilt the SH carbs yet, but I have done VT500 and NT650 carbs which are similar, the front are rear are different, the needles have different parts numbers - IIRC the rear is a bit richer because it runs a bit hotter due to the direction of the coolant flow, but I am not sure.
Do not get chemicals on the rubber or plastic. I learned the hard way that Kerosene expands rubber.
Tips:
When installing the slides, use a small amount of Permatex Form-a-Gasket 2, the non hardening stuff, to hold the diaphrams in place.
Put a drop of oil on the jet threads when reinstalling.
Replace the fuel lines while you are in there, and add a ful filter. Use hose clamps.
Drain the tank and use fresh preium gas.
Clean the petcock - the screen may be clogged with crud.
Start with 2-turns out on the pilot screws, adjust from there.
Take your time.
JB
You mentioned that you did not remove the pilot screws, that suggests that the carbs may not be completely clean. The only way to clean a carb properly is with carb cleaner and air. I soak all the small metal parts (NOT RUBBER or PLASTIC) in Seafoam over night. All carb body passageways must be cleared out with carb cleaner and blown out with air, repeat a few times. The slighest spec of crud will have a negative affect. You should not not poke anything through the passageways - you can score the soft metal. If you think that the jets are really bad and can't be cleaned - replace them, although I have never had to do that. Maybe even get a new factory jet kit and do it all over if you are unsure if what is in there is correct.
I have not rebuilt the SH carbs yet, but I have done VT500 and NT650 carbs which are similar, the front are rear are different, the needles have different parts numbers - IIRC the rear is a bit richer because it runs a bit hotter due to the direction of the coolant flow, but I am not sure.
Do not get chemicals on the rubber or plastic. I learned the hard way that Kerosene expands rubber.
Tips:
When installing the slides, use a small amount of Permatex Form-a-Gasket 2, the non hardening stuff, to hold the diaphrams in place.
Put a drop of oil on the jet threads when reinstalling.
Replace the fuel lines while you are in there, and add a ful filter. Use hose clamps.
Drain the tank and use fresh preium gas.
Clean the petcock - the screen may be clogged with crud.
Start with 2-turns out on the pilot screws, adjust from there.
Take your time.
JB
Last edited by residentg; 03-11-2010 at 01:00 AM. Reason: bored
03-11-2010, 11:04 AM
#8
Banned
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
Posts: 5,942
No problems here except that with oiled threads make sure you don't over tighten the jet.
While a few had needed to run premium grade fuel, my bike along with most other run the best on regular (87) as called out in the owners manual.
The screen goes into the tank and is located under the petcock. Before you ask, yes it is a real bitch to get out.
Set the pilot screws to 2.5 turns from closed as a starting point if you are running #45 pilots.
Also you may want to ditch the K&N filter. While some folks here have got them to work, I was never one of them. After almost 2 years of being stubborn and knowing I could get it to work I finally took the advice given to me through Moriwaki to run the stock filter. With that one change all my jetting problems went away.
If you didn't remove the emulsion tubes it's good and bad. Good that you didn't mix them up but bad in that they do have some small holes that might be clogged still.
The stock jetting is 175 front and 178 rear with #45 pilots. The other thing that can help is knowing which jet kit is installed in the bike so you can get some more specific information.
03-11-2010, 02:14 PM
#9
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NY State
Posts: 667
The Permatex 2 is only if you cannot get the diaphrams to stay in place, I stressed that you should only use a little bit - if not, you are correct, it will be a mess.
The screen in the tank is not as fine as a fuel filter - I suggested one based on the issue. I agree, they are difficult to remove and expensive to replace if you waste one (like I have). I have seen so many dirty carbs that a fuel filter would hve prevented. I must admit, that I do not use them on all my street bikes - no particular reason.
I only use premium gas - it makes me happy to do so. I have some hang-ups. JB
The screen in the tank is not as fine as a fuel filter - I suggested one based on the issue. I agree, they are difficult to remove and expensive to replace if you waste one (like I have). I have seen so many dirty carbs that a fuel filter would hve prevented. I must admit, that I do not use them on all my street bikes - no particular reason.
I only use premium gas - it makes me happy to do so. I have some hang-ups. JB
Last edited by residentg; 03-17-2010 at 10:53 AM.
03-16-2010, 07:56 AM
#10
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
ok heres where i am at now.
I tried to oil the k&n but now it seems to run worst and I couldn't get it to run good like i did before from covering the filter with duct take.
So i am looking going to take all you advise and get a stock air filter but DAMN are they expensive. Ron Ayers has it for $100. I couldnt image what my dealer would charge. Any suggestions where to get one or am i stuck paying $100?
I was thinking of pulling the carbs again and pulling the pilot jets, but where would i get the driver/tool to screw out the pilot jet? It is a circle with a flat spot on one side.
Also since i have the carbs out again i was thinking of checking the TPS sensor. It should be 500 ohms, correct? If I do i have to adjust do I cut off the old mounting screws and use new ones. The factory ones seem to have it so you cant just unscrew it.
any opinions or anything else i should check or do to the carbs while they are off again? So stock jetting is 175 front and 178 rear with #45 pilots, correct? I am at sea level (NJ) so would those jets be the same?
Thanks for all the help.. Very much appreciated...
I tried to oil the k&n but now it seems to run worst and I couldn't get it to run good like i did before from covering the filter with duct take.
So i am looking going to take all you advise and get a stock air filter but DAMN are they expensive. Ron Ayers has it for $100. I couldnt image what my dealer would charge. Any suggestions where to get one or am i stuck paying $100?
I was thinking of pulling the carbs again and pulling the pilot jets, but where would i get the driver/tool to screw out the pilot jet? It is a circle with a flat spot on one side.
Also since i have the carbs out again i was thinking of checking the TPS sensor. It should be 500 ohms, correct? If I do i have to adjust do I cut off the old mounting screws and use new ones. The factory ones seem to have it so you cant just unscrew it.
any opinions or anything else i should check or do to the carbs while they are off again? So stock jetting is 175 front and 178 rear with #45 pilots, correct? I am at sea level (NJ) so would those jets be the same?
Thanks for all the help.. Very much appreciated...
03-16-2010, 08:31 AM
#12
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
Oh this is the exhaust that is on the bike
http://www.exoticsportbike.com/vtr_10004.htm
No should there be bigger jets in there because of this?
wow, your right! i dont know what i was looking at then 
Thanks i rechecked and its $46
http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/...up/AIR_CLEANER
Thats much better..lol
http://www.exoticsportbike.com/vtr_10004.htm
No should there be bigger jets in there because of this?
Thanks i rechecked and its $46
http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/...up/AIR_CLEANER
Thats much better..lol
03-16-2010, 11:31 AM
#13
Banned
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
Posts: 5,942
ok heres where i am at now.
I tried to oil the k&n but now it seems to run worst and I couldn't get it to run good like i did before from covering the filter with duct take.
So i am looking going to take all you advise and get a stock air filter but DAMN are they expensive. Ron Ayers has it for $100. I couldnt image what my dealer would charge. Any suggestions where to get one or am i stuck paying $100?
I tried to oil the k&n but now it seems to run worst and I couldn't get it to run good like i did before from covering the filter with duct take.
So i am looking going to take all you advise and get a stock air filter but DAMN are they expensive. Ron Ayers has it for $100. I couldnt image what my dealer would charge. Any suggestions where to get one or am i stuck paying $100?
Yes that is the stock jetting. If it were mine, I would shim the needles .040-.060 and replace the pilots with #48s set at 1.5-1.75 turns out to start. If you don't want to change the pilots set the stock ones to 2.5-2.75 turns out to start.
03-16-2010, 03:24 PM
#15
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
Where would be a good place to get jets from, online or honda? Ronayers just has a 45 pilot. I think i might just want to order them so i know for sure what is in there because supposaly this was rejetted for the air filter.
This was just an observation but when the needles are installed in the vacuum piston there is some play or slop in the needle. Is this normal? I guess that is what the spring is for?
Just to make sure i do this correct, to shim the needle richer, i should put the shim between the needle clip and the vacuum piston and not the the needle clip and spring, correct?
03-16-2010, 03:25 PM
#16
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
03-16-2010, 03:41 PM
#17
Banned
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
Posts: 5,942
And most bike shps should be able to get them for you.
Yes the shims go in before you install the needle.
03-16-2010, 03:43 PM
#18
Banned
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
Posts: 5,942
03-16-2010, 03:46 PM
#19
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Way Out West
Posts: 2,547
http://www.ronayers.com/Search/N/687...-D10/Source/HO
Last edited by RK1; 03-16-2010 at 03:58 PM.
03-16-2010, 05:31 PM
#20
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Posts: 963
My thoughts on such problems is to think about what has happened. Bike runs good for years and then without any parts being changed then doesn't run good. That to me is not a reason to start looking at jetting changes. That is a fault that needs to be rectified.
If the bike has used a K&N filter for years then I would clean and re-oil that and continue using it. Why change something that has worked for so long? I understand that many people have not had success with them, but this bike ran well with it. Mine does too.
Same with jets. Unless something has changed on the bike why change the jets? If you change the filter then you may need a jetting change as well, but if the bike was jetted to suit the K&N then I would not change them.
Unfortunatley this bike is picky when it comes to airflow, so to try anything you need to have the airbox complete with the filter in it. Any experiments without it are likely to give you false information.
The petcock diaphragm can be replaced I think if it is faulty. Put a piece of hose on the fitting on the back (not the bottom) of the petcock and suck on it. If you get no resistance then it is faulty. If you can get vacuum and stick the hose to your tongue then it is working.
A clean filter and good plugs (new plugs would not hurt) will be a good starting point too. If you use the K&N it needs to be oiled properly (not too much).
If this stuff is all ok, then my gut feeling is the carbs to be honest. I would like to see you strip them down fully before you move on to something else.
If the bike has used a K&N filter for years then I would clean and re-oil that and continue using it. Why change something that has worked for so long? I understand that many people have not had success with them, but this bike ran well with it. Mine does too.
Same with jets. Unless something has changed on the bike why change the jets? If you change the filter then you may need a jetting change as well, but if the bike was jetted to suit the K&N then I would not change them.
Unfortunatley this bike is picky when it comes to airflow, so to try anything you need to have the airbox complete with the filter in it. Any experiments without it are likely to give you false information.
The petcock diaphragm can be replaced I think if it is faulty. Put a piece of hose on the fitting on the back (not the bottom) of the petcock and suck on it. If you get no resistance then it is faulty. If you can get vacuum and stick the hose to your tongue then it is working.
A clean filter and good plugs (new plugs would not hurt) will be a good starting point too. If you use the K&N it needs to be oiled properly (not too much).
If this stuff is all ok, then my gut feeling is the carbs to be honest. I would like to see you strip them down fully before you move on to something else.
Last edited by shayne; 03-16-2010 at 05:34 PM.
03-16-2010, 07:32 PM
#21
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
Great information guys, Thanks!
Your thoughts was mine too, I thought it need to be re oiled and it did need to be oiled. I oiled a k&n for the first time and i oiled it too much, just as you said not too. Because i was able to start the bike cold withoutt the choke and it actually ran great cold, til it warmed up. I definitly put too much oil on it and this proves (to me) that this bike is really picky with airflow, so i think its best for me to go with a stock air filter. I need some predictable and reliable settings so this bike wont have issues down the road.
As for the petcock, i made some progress. I actually took it apart and the diaphram was stuck seated. So i cleaned it all up while it was apart. Now it works as its supposed too.
Thanks again everyone for all the help. No i just wanna start over. This doesnt sound to complicated for me to accomplish all this. How about syncing the carbs? should there be any issues with this, does it need to be done?
My thoughts on such problems is to think about what has happened. Bike runs good for years and then without any parts being changed then doesn't run good. That to me is not a reason to start looking at jetting changes. That is a fault that needs to be rectified.
If the bike has used a K&N filter for years then I would clean and re-oil that and continue using it. Why change something that has worked for so long? I understand that many people have not had success with them, but this bike ran well with it. Mine does too.
Same with jets. Unless something has changed on the bike why change the jets? If you change the filter then you may need a jetting change as well, but if the bike was jetted to suit the K&N then I would not change them.
Unfortunatley this bike is picky when it comes to airflow, so to try anything you need to have the airbox complete with the filter in it. Any experiments without it are likely to give you false information.
The petcock diaphragm can be replaced I think if it is faulty. Put a piece of hose on the fitting on the back (not the bottom) of the petcock and suck on it. If you get no resistance then it is faulty. If you can get vacuum and stick the hose to your tongue then it is working.
A clean filter and good plugs (new plugs would not hurt) will be a good starting point too. If you use the K&N it needs to be oiled properly (not too much).
If this stuff is all ok, then my gut feeling is the carbs to be honest. I would like to see you strip them down fully before you move on to something else.
If the bike has used a K&N filter for years then I would clean and re-oil that and continue using it. Why change something that has worked for so long? I understand that many people have not had success with them, but this bike ran well with it. Mine does too.
Same with jets. Unless something has changed on the bike why change the jets? If you change the filter then you may need a jetting change as well, but if the bike was jetted to suit the K&N then I would not change them.
Unfortunatley this bike is picky when it comes to airflow, so to try anything you need to have the airbox complete with the filter in it. Any experiments without it are likely to give you false information.
The petcock diaphragm can be replaced I think if it is faulty. Put a piece of hose on the fitting on the back (not the bottom) of the petcock and suck on it. If you get no resistance then it is faulty. If you can get vacuum and stick the hose to your tongue then it is working.
A clean filter and good plugs (new plugs would not hurt) will be a good starting point too. If you use the K&N it needs to be oiled properly (not too much).
If this stuff is all ok, then my gut feeling is the carbs to be honest. I would like to see you strip them down fully before you move on to something else.
As for the petcock, i made some progress. I actually took it apart and the diaphram was stuck seated. So i cleaned it all up while it was apart. Now it works as its supposed too.
Thanks again everyone for all the help. No i just wanna start over. This doesnt sound to complicated for me to accomplish all this. How about syncing the carbs? should there be any issues with this, does it need to be done?
03-17-2010, 07:43 AM
#23
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
03-17-2010, 07:53 AM
#24
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
What do you use for a shim, just a small stainless steel washer, or is there some other high tech shim..lol
03-17-2010, 08:49 AM
#25
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,132
03-17-2010, 10:56 AM
#26
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NY State
Posts: 667
Radioshack sells packages of assorted small washer for $2, they work great as needle shims.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103391
JB
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103391
JB
03-18-2010, 09:09 PM
#27
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Posts: 963
Carb balancing requires a tool of some sort in my experience. I cannot do it by ear. Do some searching on here and you will find info on tools to buy, or make yourself cheaply to do the job.
03-18-2010, 09:44 PM
#28
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Way Out West
Posts: 2,547
Maybe start here...
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=21858
Last edited by RK1; 03-18-2010 at 09:48 PM.
03-18-2010, 10:38 PM
#29
Senior Member
Back Marker
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Newport, RI
Posts: 143
I thought I would chime in because while I'm not an expert compared to many of the others here, I have very recently gone through a fairly similar ordeal, so you can benefit from my experience.
First, yes, sycing your carbs is extremely critical. It has to be spot-on, or you will get occasional "carb farts" (pop-sneeze coinciding with brief loss of power), or just brief loss of power (like one missed stroke). I also would get a "clunk" occasionally that felt like metal hitting metal, though I don't know what it really was. Also, virtually *anything* you do to the carbs will knock the sync off just a little bit - the screw just doesn't have much friction keeping it in place. I swear that if you had the carb in your hand and just plain shook it pretty hard, the sync would change a little. Ok, maybe it's not quite *that* bad.
Here's another useful tip on carb syncing: You'll find that there's a vacuum fitting on the rear cylinder that drives the petcock valve. Get another one, and install it in the front cylinder instead of the screw that is currently there. The screw is incredibly difficult to get out without removing the carbs, and removing the carbs causes you to have to re-sync them. Chicken/egg, get it? So just put another vacuum hose on the new fitting, route it somewhere accessible, plug it, and leave it there. Similarly, cut the actual petcock vacuum tube somewhere equally accessible, and then re-connect it with a properly sized brass tube - pulling the petcock vacuum tube off of its fitting is also pretty hard. I have the split and the end of the other tube both right under the back left corner of the tank - I can sync my carbs without unbolting *anything*.
Also, a comment about removing the tank and running the bike with it off - don't bother disconnecting the tank at all. You have to unbolt it, yes. But the toolkit that comes with the bike has a funky U-shaped allen wrench that is actually there to lift the back of the tank up by putting it through the tank tangs and the frame's tank bolt hole. You tilt your tank vertical (w/ a pad to protect it from the frame), and bungie it to the back of the bike. The U-thing is a little sketchy, you have to either get used to it, or get an actual big honkin' u-bolt from a hardware store with nuts to keep it in place. This is very secure, and not having to disconnect the tank saves a ton of time.
Ok, it's already been said, but I second it - a dremmel is great for turning weird screws into normal screws; specifically the pilot adjusters and the TPS security screws. Best to do this with the carb out on a bench so they are all accessible, and so bits of metal aren't flying into your cylinders.
This one also has already been said but I second it - it is *very* easy to accidentally hook up the vacuum tube to the wrong nozzle on the petcock valve. Also, you can force-close the petcock valve, with a wrench, so if you did that at any point, then it's always closed. You can't tell which direction is which by looking at it, you have to search here.
And last, but not least - actually last but most, is the cleaning of the jets and emulsifier tubes themselves, and the passages in the carb body itself. For how long this bike has been sitting, it is likely that many of these passages are fouled *way* beyond what simply soaking them can take care of. You have to get creative with plugging up as many of the holes in a given jet or tube as you can while you blast aerosol carb cleaner through it to force the pressure out the remaining holes. Blasting the side holes *from* the side helps too. You have to look at all the side-holes and hold them up to a light source, and keep working at it until you can see light cleanly through every pair of holes. You also have to do the aerosol pressure trick with all the jet passages that are machined into the carb body itself. The pilot jet's passage is probably the hardest because it's got a wicked U-turn in it. Blast it from both ends (heh-heh... hey Beavis... heh).
Truth is, for how cheap jets and emulsifier tubes are, don't kill yourself trying to clean these.
Oh, yeah, and the factory plug wrench, if you can't find it, you can buy it all by itself from ronayers for not too much - less than $10 I think, certainly less than 20.
Here's another tip: if you need/want something fast and don't want to wait for the ronayers standard 5 days to fulfillment plus 2-3 days for shipping, you can call on the phone and request expedited shipping. For really tiny things like a washer, a vacuum fitting, a gasket set, a float valve, it really doesn't cost that much. The will overnight it from honda for an extra $5, and then overnight it to you for $10.
Oh, that reminds me, how smoothly do your float valves operate? One of mine was seized when I got my bike, I needed pliers to get it out, it somehow got corroded.
First, yes, sycing your carbs is extremely critical. It has to be spot-on, or you will get occasional "carb farts" (pop-sneeze coinciding with brief loss of power), or just brief loss of power (like one missed stroke). I also would get a "clunk" occasionally that felt like metal hitting metal, though I don't know what it really was. Also, virtually *anything* you do to the carbs will knock the sync off just a little bit - the screw just doesn't have much friction keeping it in place. I swear that if you had the carb in your hand and just plain shook it pretty hard, the sync would change a little. Ok, maybe it's not quite *that* bad.
Here's another useful tip on carb syncing: You'll find that there's a vacuum fitting on the rear cylinder that drives the petcock valve. Get another one, and install it in the front cylinder instead of the screw that is currently there. The screw is incredibly difficult to get out without removing the carbs, and removing the carbs causes you to have to re-sync them. Chicken/egg, get it? So just put another vacuum hose on the new fitting, route it somewhere accessible, plug it, and leave it there. Similarly, cut the actual petcock vacuum tube somewhere equally accessible, and then re-connect it with a properly sized brass tube - pulling the petcock vacuum tube off of its fitting is also pretty hard. I have the split and the end of the other tube both right under the back left corner of the tank - I can sync my carbs without unbolting *anything*.
Also, a comment about removing the tank and running the bike with it off - don't bother disconnecting the tank at all. You have to unbolt it, yes. But the toolkit that comes with the bike has a funky U-shaped allen wrench that is actually there to lift the back of the tank up by putting it through the tank tangs and the frame's tank bolt hole. You tilt your tank vertical (w/ a pad to protect it from the frame), and bungie it to the back of the bike. The U-thing is a little sketchy, you have to either get used to it, or get an actual big honkin' u-bolt from a hardware store with nuts to keep it in place. This is very secure, and not having to disconnect the tank saves a ton of time.
Ok, it's already been said, but I second it - a dremmel is great for turning weird screws into normal screws; specifically the pilot adjusters and the TPS security screws. Best to do this with the carb out on a bench so they are all accessible, and so bits of metal aren't flying into your cylinders.
This one also has already been said but I second it - it is *very* easy to accidentally hook up the vacuum tube to the wrong nozzle on the petcock valve. Also, you can force-close the petcock valve, with a wrench, so if you did that at any point, then it's always closed. You can't tell which direction is which by looking at it, you have to search here.
And last, but not least - actually last but most, is the cleaning of the jets and emulsifier tubes themselves, and the passages in the carb body itself. For how long this bike has been sitting, it is likely that many of these passages are fouled *way* beyond what simply soaking them can take care of. You have to get creative with plugging up as many of the holes in a given jet or tube as you can while you blast aerosol carb cleaner through it to force the pressure out the remaining holes. Blasting the side holes *from* the side helps too. You have to look at all the side-holes and hold them up to a light source, and keep working at it until you can see light cleanly through every pair of holes. You also have to do the aerosol pressure trick with all the jet passages that are machined into the carb body itself. The pilot jet's passage is probably the hardest because it's got a wicked U-turn in it. Blast it from both ends (heh-heh... hey Beavis... heh).
Truth is, for how cheap jets and emulsifier tubes are, don't kill yourself trying to clean these.
Oh, yeah, and the factory plug wrench, if you can't find it, you can buy it all by itself from ronayers for not too much - less than $10 I think, certainly less than 20.
Here's another tip: if you need/want something fast and don't want to wait for the ronayers standard 5 days to fulfillment plus 2-3 days for shipping, you can call on the phone and request expedited shipping. For really tiny things like a washer, a vacuum fitting, a gasket set, a float valve, it really doesn't cost that much. The will overnight it from honda for an extra $5, and then overnight it to you for $10.
Oh, that reminds me, how smoothly do your float valves operate? One of mine was seized when I got my bike, I needed pliers to get it out, it somehow got corroded.
03-18-2010, 10:42 PM
#30
Senior Member
Back Marker
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Newport, RI
Posts: 143
Oh, by the way, I have a brand new (used once) carb-sync gauge I'm happy to sell for $25+shipping. I decided to get one of the gucci Twin-Max ones after I bought this one. Not sure it was worth it, but I can't return it, and it's a little easier to use, so if you want the other one, let me know. It this one.
