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Hard starting...acts like low battery

Old Jun 14, 2009 | 02:40 PM
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Hard starting...acts like low battery

Stator checks out to ground. New R-1 rectifier conversion, and new stock battery. Pulled each fuse and looked for ground and D/C present. Guage cluster shows minor drain, power to odometer?

13.7 volts on battery before starting, while running charges at 14.2-14.8.

So, why's it act like it's out of juice after it cranks over a couple times OR after I run it on a short ride, stop to get gas.....it acts like the battery's dead.

Fish
Old Jun 14, 2009 | 05:01 PM
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Is the battery a piece of ...?
I mean theres all these people buying acid batteries and they cant figure out whats wrong.
Superhawk needs a GEL CELL battery not a lead acid battery ...
Old Jun 14, 2009 | 06:22 PM
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The stock battery that came with the bike whem I bought the bike new in Nov of 97 is an lead acid type. It when south after 7+ years. I figured ...well if the first one lasted that long......

Any how, isn't 13.7 a good voltage before starting? After setting for a couple days not used? Charging at 14 +.....

Lead or GEL.....will it make that much differance?

I may have got a bad battery. Need to have it checked for bad cell.

Fish
Old Jun 14, 2009 | 07:29 PM
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A gel cell battery is a type of lead acid battery. All the batteries I have ever put in my Super Hawk (or other motorcycle, for that matter) have been lead acid. Gel Cell batteries are good batteries, but I don't think this is the problem in this case.

I would check all connections thoroughly, and especially make sure the battery is well grounded.
Old Jun 14, 2009 | 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by killer5280
I would check all connections thoroughly, and especially make sure the battery is well grounded.

+1 Several other members have had corrosion problems with the cable terminal at the starter. I recently disconnected my battery and used automotive sandpaper on all the cable terminals... the battery + and - cables were more corroded than any of the others. This seems to have improved starter operation a bit. It sounds like I get faster rpm action.
Old Jun 14, 2009 | 11:35 PM
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Yup, and the starter switch too ( not the handle bar switch but the solenoid) .
corrosion kills them good and makes this symptom.
Old Jun 16, 2009 | 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by VTRFISH
Stator checks out to ground. New R-1 rectifier conversion, and new stock battery. Pulled each fuse and looked for ground and D/C present. Guage cluster shows minor drain, power to odometer?

13.7 volts on battery before starting, while running charges at 14.2-14.8.

So, why's it act like it's out of juice after it cranks over a couple times OR after I run it on a short ride, stop to get gas.....it acts like the battery's dead.

Fish
Mine was doing the same thing. I pulled the odometer fuse permanently, i don't know what the deal is with that draw other than memory, so I don't have that right now. For some reason, it seems to be drawing more than it should for memory.
Anyway, i put a new battery in from Advance Auto(stranded on the road) and it wasn't able to charge it longer than an hour and it failed to operate properly(same symptoms). I bought the OEM Yuasa and charged it according to instructions, put it in and it fried the rebuilt RR i just put in a week before. I bought an new RR from honda shop put it in and no problem anymore. Screwy **** i don't understand(electrical eludes me), but proper initial charge is probably crucial for long term.

As far as gel vs OEM, orig lasted 9yrs. on battery tender. However, maybe letting battery go that long wastes the RR prematurely???
Old Jun 16, 2009 | 12:50 PM
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Its actually very simple, lol.

Listen people ... Battery chargers are voltage jackhammers. Even the cheap little trickle chargers.

Not all but 99% are not filtered at all. All they needed to add was a fat capacitor or even some chokes to take the spike off the wave. But whats hitting your battery ( and the battery likes too ) is momentary DC. But look at the wave on a scope and the cheap battery chargers pulse has a sharp spike on the leading edges.
OK for a tank like a battery, but not the crystaline little diodes (20 amps max) in your stock R/R. While charging with many types of battery chargers, your R/R rectifier diodes heat up in the wrong way. Different than if you were running the bike, this damage to the R/R was very well documented back in the 80's I know of.
Honda warned all dealer service departments about charging batteries on bike.
We were instructed to remove the positive terminals from batteries getting a charge.
This obviously isolates the battery from the rest.
In reality you should do this on a car as well if you use one of those big *** welder sized chargers.

The only safe charger I personally know of (Im not trying hard) is the Yuasa gell cell charger, the autosensing one. About 50 bucks, and I promise you can bake your batteries with this for years and not hurt your R/R diodes.

Last edited by Circuit_Burner; Jun 16, 2009 at 01:04 PM.
Old Jun 16, 2009 | 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Circuit_Burner
OK for a tank like a battery, but not the crystaline little diodes (20 amps max) in your stock R/R. While charging with many types of battery chargers, your R/R rectifier diodes heat up in the wrong way. Different than if you were running the bike, this damage to the R/R was very well documented back in the 80's I know of.
Honda warned all dealer service departments about charging batteries on bike.

If your charger was putting out 14V DC unfiltered , then the peak voltage in the wave will be 14x1.414=19.8V. The peak inverse voltage for most diodes starts at about 50V so they can easily handle 20V peaks and will not heat up at all. The 20A rating you speak of, is the current rating in the FORWARD direction i.e stator --> R/R --> battery.
Old Jun 16, 2009 | 08:20 PM
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of course, but we arent hurting the diodes with reverse / inverse voltage.
Thats that part that will make you scratch your head.
Just disconnect the positive battery terminal when on-bike charging or run the risk.

Plus, the diodes in your stock honda R/R SUCK. Obviously engineered this way on purpose...
Old Jun 17, 2009 | 02:50 AM
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Because of the way a R/R works, you will send voltage forward through some of the diodes... IE 20V forward (or more depending on actual charge voltage)... They do NOT like that... (and no I'm not confusing V vs A here...) And yes, some of them will get the backwards spike and shrug it off...

And yes, Circuit_Burner is absolutely correct... The engineers at Honda used the cheapest possible components that didn't blow up on the test bench to build those R/R's... And then they sealed them in with minimal heat dissipation in a solid clump of resin... There is a reason they fail regularly...

It's not hard doing stuff the right way... Building a R/R with good components and a sink is easy... Sometimes it's even easier than spending the effort doing it the wrong way... So if it wasn't on purpose, at least it was done by an incompetent designer/engineer...

Last edited by Tweety; Jun 17, 2009 at 03:04 AM.
Old Jun 19, 2009 | 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by VTRFISH
The stock battery that came with the bike whem I bought the bike new in Nov of 97 is an lead acid type. It when south after 7+ years. I figured ...well if the first one lasted that long......

Any how, isn't 13.7 a good voltage before starting? After setting for a couple days not used? Charging at 14 +.....

Lead or GEL.....will it make that much differance?

I may have got a bad battery. Need to have it checked for bad cell.

Fish
I would have it load tested to determine cold cranking output.
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