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Clutchless upshifts?

Old Jul 15, 2008 | 02:57 PM
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Clutchless upshifts?

Do you guys upshift with or without the clutch? Or only over a certain RPM?

I tried doing this today, seems very smooth if I time it right and bump the shifter when I back of the throttle, even as low as 4,000 rpms.

The method I reading by Lee Parks is to keep pressure on the shifter prior to backing off the throttle, but that seems to shift it a little too early and harshly before the engine has a chance to slow down into the next gear.

What about wear and tear on the bike? If it drops right in with the same effort as using the clutch, I don't see how it could harm anything.

Old Jul 15, 2008 | 03:04 PM
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I use the clutch on 1-2 and 2-3 almost all of the time. I go clutchless after that most of the time.
Old Jul 15, 2008 | 03:06 PM
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Done properly I don't think there's more wear and tear doing clutchless upshifts. I always use the clutch for 1-2 (and it's still kinda rough).
Old Jul 15, 2008 | 03:21 PM
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In a car transmission you would be wearing the snycromesh gears shifting without the clutch. Motorcycle trans don't use syncros, but still some wear must occur. I don't see the advantage if you are not on the track.
Old Jul 15, 2008 | 03:22 PM
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I like shifting with out the clutch, and like what has been said it is really smooth if timed properly. I read in a moto mag that it does not hurt anything if done properly. Some of my friends swear that it will wear the lower gears out though. I usually use the clutch for the lower gears.
Old Jul 15, 2008 | 03:26 PM
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Most of the time I only clutch 1-2, if I'm just cruising around, I'll downshift without the clutch also. It takes some practice but can be done very smoothly .
Old Jul 15, 2008 | 03:33 PM
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The bike gears aren't synchronized?

I'll have to experiement with the clutchless downshifts, I hadn't tried that.

I figure whether or not I'm using the clutch I need to learn to match revs properly during shifts to keep it smooth.
Old Jul 15, 2008 | 03:37 PM
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I normally use the clutch on the street, unless I'm doing a WOT run.

On the track the clutch is a stop and go device. Well, not really. I use it for downshifting and preventing wheel hop when decelerating.

For clutchless upshifts it's kind of like a reverse throttle blip from wide-open. You only drop it a bit. I time it with the shift, rather than preloading the shift lever. You want to be sure the gears are unloaded before the shift happens.

I think it's beter for the transmission than excessively lazy shifts, where you can hear the dogs clunk.

If you watch the on-bike cameras on race bikes, you can see them use the clutch for downshifting, then let it out easily on corner entry.
Old Jul 15, 2008 | 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CentralCoaster
The bike gears aren't synchronized?

I'll have to experiement with the clutchless downshifts, I hadn't tried that.

I figure whether or not I'm using the clutch I need to learn to match revs properly during shifts to keep it smooth.
Syncro gears in a car trans are narrow toothed brass gears that line up with the thicker steel gears. Before syncro transmissions you had to "double clutch" to down shift and come to a COMPLETE STOP before shifting into 1st or it would grind.
I've never had an MC trans apart, but I know they don't have syncros. They use "dogs" to engage gears.
Old Jul 15, 2008 | 07:02 PM
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No clutch here. On the street I usually use it unless I'm going flat out, which is pretty much never. Once I hit 3rd, it stays there.
Old Jul 15, 2008 | 07:20 PM
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on the track i use the clutch up & down. the quick motion helps me keep my gear count. .

tim
Old Jul 15, 2008 | 08:01 PM
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i use the clutch in every gear no matter what, even when i wheelie. IMO, the clutch is obviously there for a reason, so i use it.
Old Jul 15, 2008 | 08:04 PM
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I use it most of the time, both up and down, but when you're really getting on it clutchless upshifts can be both faster and smoother than when using the clutch.
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