RoadManiac

hi all i replaced my cct's quite a while ago when is wasnt hot at all

the engine was cold when i did the cct swap to krieger ones everything whent fine and it ran like it did before only the clicking sound was gone so i was pretty pleased but now its really hot in holland and the sound is back
when it occurs it seems to misfire or drop in power but ever so little
i tightened the ccts up a bit and the noise is still there but maybe a little bit better
bike runs great beside the noise, because its only on constant throttle around 2000 or 4000 rpm it redlines great has lots of power it does backfire quite alot but i have almost open pipes (remus revolutions) dont know if its a full system or slip on

the strangest thing is when i did the ccts i broke one of the choke mounts wich i am not the only one that did that but i did ride it with one choke partially out thats the only time the noise wasnt there so you would think it was running lean but it backfires so thats telling another thing.

so is it still the ccts ?

or an exhaust leak ? but i never heard it sound like a clicking sound
its very hot right now so because of that ik makes sense that te pipe expand more

new plugs ?

to lean or to rich ?

Greetings

sailorjerry

If the bike is missfiring you will get a tick sound (chain slap) due to the nonfiring cyl allows the cain to go slack for a split second causing this noise.

1) check the condition of both plugs. (this will tell you lean or rich)

2) do a carb sync. ( my issue was front cyl was rich, rear was lean causing a missfire)

3) To check the exhaust let it idle, and stick your hand around any joints where two parts of the pipe meet, and where header enters the head, you will feel the exhaust leaking out.

RoadManiac

i the adjusted the ccts so i am convinced it cant be the cam chain thats slapping housing anymore

what does a misfire on a superhawk sound like so i can compare ?
faulty plugs can also make it misfire right ?

carb synch what exactly do yo mean by this
same or different jetting maybe a jet kit

its difficult to pin point this because i dont know the history of the bike
i dont know wat jetting it has if its been jetted in the past

and those plastic intake things (dont know the english name) with the screws that dont come out and cover the other four screws they are different sizes wich goes where i forget and i am geussing this wil make a difference wich carb gets more air ?

sailorjerry

1) The chain can still get some slack durring a miss fire, this will be a very violent metal on metal slap sound or even like taping something with a wrench type noise. it will only happen when the bike missfires.

2) Bad plugs can cause a miss fire, pull them and inspect, check to see if they are white in color (lean condition) or black in color/wet (rich condition) if one is wet and the other is not or is white, then post back and we can go from there.

3)The carbs on these bikes have to be synced, I think across the pond you guys may refer to it as balanced? This in sures that both carbs are pulling the right amount of fuel and air they need to work properly.

4) Dont worry about any jetting just yet, lets see if we can just figure out whats causing the noise and issue.

5) The plastic things you're referring to are the velocity stacks. Yes, one will be longer than the other, so that is normal.

7moore7

If it's not a consistent ticking, it's probably not CCT's being too tight or loose. A misfire or carb sneeze will sound like a tick sometimes if the slides slam open/close. If you broke a choke nut, you are likely running rich and need to figure this out like has been mentioned. Do not get tunnel-visioned because of the CCT install. Perhaps you broke the choke nut awhile back, but for some reason the choke needle hasn't shifted until now, and you are now running rich.

I *think* the long one is in front, but here's the sure way to tell: Each stack has an arrow on one of the tabs that lines up with an arrow in the airbox. There is only one way that the stacks can fit in the box if you line up the arrows. Now you don't ever need to know, just follow the arrows

RoadManiac

the choke nut was broken and then at first the noise was complety gone
then returned slowly and now i fixed the choke nut and it returned more


now the long one is in the back and short one in the front and the box still fits

what sailorjerry said about metal to metal slapping noise it doesnt sound like that at al

greetings from across the pond

7moore7

Line the arrows on the tabs up with the arrows in the box. There is only one way that the arrows can line up- that's what I meant by "fits". They physically fit either way, but the arrows only work in one orientation.


So is your choke nut fixed or broken right now?

Edit: an occasional tapping or clicking along with a drop in rpm's is still suggesting carbs or maybe electrical but not CCT's to me.

sailorjerry

If you can, upload a video or sound clip so we can hear the noise. Apparently neither of us are sure exactly what it sounds like.

RoadManiac

First off many thanks 7moore & sailorjerry for the help


my choke nuts are fixed with polaris ones also thanks to this forum

also my plugs are pretty old i am gonna change them pretty soon

its weird because at higher rpm & speeds the bike runs fine

i will switch the velocity stacks over tomorrow
i think when they are in the wrong order one carb gets more air then the other because one is longer...... so one carb gets more air less fuel etc.
but is this enough to cause the misfire ? or mixture problems.... out of sync

maybe run it with the choke little but on to test ?

greetings

RoadManiac

the noise is almost never there on idle but i will try to make a clip
just got a litte bulletcam for my gsxr for the track but sound may be a problem its gonna be a weird vid

7moore7

Ah ok... vid would be nice. But it's getting narrowed down!

Start with the basics like velocity stacks and doing a carb sync. Then you can definitely test by pulling the choke out just a little and seeing if it clicks more or less.

Plugs or coils may be getting old or something like that. It's always a good idea to check the grounds and the ignition wires and coils to make sure everything's tight and making a good connection.

RoadManiac

my bike has almost 50,000 km or 31,000 miles on it
i dont know if the plugs are that old but geussing the coils are,
might need to clean some contact points and new plugs

RoadManiac

i cleaned my carbs today and the velocity stacks are in the right place
i think the whole bike or 1 cilinder is running lean
when the engine was cold with choke fully on the bike runs great no noises and not as rough,
then with the choke off after 200 meters the noise starts slowly and then when the engine reaches operating temp the noise becomes more frequent some times more than other, with the choke back on its less but still there

but the confusing thing is when i let of the gas it backfires alot
sometimes its like machine gun fire behind my *** it disapears a bit when the engine is hotter

so i think a jet kit and a proper dyno set up ?

i got a vid to but its really hard to hear it so i am gonna get some second opinion on if its heard on the vid, and trying to post it later tonight

greetings

sailorjerry

If its making the noise with no choke the. When you pull the choke it gets better or does away then you're running lean. Perform the carb sync (carb balance) and retest from there.

RoadManiac

carb sync is this gonna make the difference or wil i need to go bigger with the main jet ? because its on low rpm range only the noise

and it seemed to run great with choke on & engine cold

sailorjerry

It will make a difference, and with out hearing the noise it's a great place to start that's easy work. If you have the front cylinder running rich and the rear running lean it can cause a predetonation or incomplete combustion a cylinder that is running lean runs much hotter and causes the lower amounts of fuel to burn quicker/ sooner. It can cause all of the symptoms you're describing, low power, noise, symtoms get worse as it gets hot, choking the bike helps. So if you're running lean on just one cylinder by pulling the choke you're giving that cylinder more fuel which will cause it to cool down and slow down the rate of predetonation.

Like I said its easy and a great place to start.

RoadManiac

that also can explain the backfire issue cause of one cilinder getting more fuel,
i am gonna do the sync as soon as i get a second vacuum connector
i am gonna do it with fluid and a ruler
but i will be needing a T piece right to connect de vacuum on the tank as wel the rear cilinder ? just making sure

and when adjusting the carb you only adjust the screw on the rear carb ?

sailorjerry

That very well could be the cause of a backfire.

You can go the route of a home made job which alot of guys do, and alot of guys also use the T-fitting. Im not sure how to hook it up that way becuase it not the way I do it.

I have a carb sync guage, and the way I do it is.

1) I start the bike and let it get warm.

2)Find the vacuum line to the diaphragm, and pinch it off with needle nose vise grips(with engine running), this allows the vacuum to keep the diaphragm open while you sync the carbs.

3) Turn off engine remove the vacuum plug from the front carb, and install vacuum fitting from my carb sync tool.

4) Hook the tool up to the front cyl and pull the diaphragm line off from the rear fitting, and hook the tool up there as well. then start engine let it get settled into a good idle and sync.

5) The sync adjuster is just above where the diaphragm line runs behind the fame, its towards the rear carb and is just a single 7mm screw.

7moore7

I recommend not doing this. You want vacuum to be activated on the petcock by leaving the line open (not closed). It will not affect your carb sync signal to have a couple of inches extra vacuum line.

You can also purchase an OEM "boost joint". This is the same part that is already on the rear cyliner.

sailorjerry

Page 57 of the manual or section 3-12, please read it, and if you still dont beleive me, try it for yourself and when the engine stalls and you spend 30 minutes tring to figure out why it wont stay running reread it again.... ask me how I know

By pinching the line you are keeping the vacuum trapped between the pinch in the line and diaphragm, if you leave it open the diaphragm will close slowy, and cause the bike to get starved for fuel.

Also if you were unclear of MY meathods, please reread my post. I do not use a T-fitting to do a carb sync on the hawk. And if left "open" as you have said is the best, it will not work seeing as how you need vacuum to keep the diaphragm open, which is why the line gets pinched off.


As for this, yes its the same thing, my carb sync guage just came with them.

7moore7

How about I just read it in general

... I didn't catch that you were not using a T-fitting.

There are two schools of thought, and I'm sure we're nit-picking here.

If you're running the sync tool directly to both cylinders and not to a t-splitter, you will have to cap the vacuum line like you said. I stand corrected.

The method that I use...not saying it is better or that you are not aware of it... allows me to sync my carbs without the need to pinch a vacuum in the line. It also lets the bike run in "real world conditions", as in, it is taking into account the vacuum tube running to the petcock when balancing the carbs. While I doubt this makes a difference, if one method is more accurate, it is this one.

I didn't make this method up, I has been documented for the VTR since before this forum was around...

RoadManiac

i am going to do it the el cheapo way because i got a "every thing breaksdown streak'' this needing new brake pads etc etc

but i was planning to conect 2 pieces of clear line to both vacuum adapters and the rear adapter a T piece to the petcock that is good wright ?

7moore7

Your two clear vacuum lines attach as follows:

End #1 --> Front cylinder boost joint (this is not stock, but installed and then capped off when the bike is running normally)
End #2 --> Vacuum line t-splitter (this is not stock, but is installed in the line that runs from your rear cylinder to your petcock and is capped off when the bike is running normally)

sailorjerry

HAHA, just because I am newer to the Hawk than you don't assume I dont know what I'm talking about. It makes an *** out of U and ME.

I couldn't say which way is better, or more effective, but your logic is good cause it does take into account the vacuum to the diaphragm, but at the same time that shouldn't matter unless you have a leak in the diaphragm because the vacuum is constant, not changing.

Both meathods work, I just don't use yours.

RoadManiac

I tried to synch my carbs with an cheap method like i see wide spread over alot of forums, but it didn't seem to work with my bike,
the fluid shot up one way and with minimal input it went complety the other way etc.
It was a disaster so i am going with a pro synch either going to buy or barrow one but i need it.
also i read on other thread some guy had almost the same issue he solved it with other pipes because he had problem with backpressure and my pipes are really big and open,
and i dont have any cash for other ones so i am going to run it alot richer with some bigger jets because it wil only run right with choke fully out/on

i was thinking to start with a 48 pilot jet and 182 main in front and rear 185 ? and work my way down or up from there, and a good carb synch

greetings florian

CruxGNZ

Sync your carbs first. Then start messing with the fuel after. Don't touch your exhaust cans either.

I used the two bottle method, because I was worried about the exact thing that happened to you. With the two bottle method, you have no chance of sucking in the fluid. My setup pictured below cost me ~$2.00 U.S. Dollars
The screw you use to sync the carbs uses very slight movements to make adjustments. You're doing fine. Just use a different method.

RoadManiac

took off my carbs today and you can definetly see some sign of carb backfire
the front one has black soot in the bottom of the carb so a carb sync is in order.
And gonna try slightly larger main jets, pilot jets are 48s,
mixture screws are back to stock they where 2 turns out so quite lean

cant figure out how to get the needles out of the slide

grtz

7moore7

take one of the screws that holds the spring and diaphragm cap on and screw it into that little hole at the back of the needle. Use that screw as a handle to wiggle/pull the needle cap out of the slide.

Like this:

RoadManiac

hi all
my problem is almost fixed
set up now is
50 slow jet
stock main jets
mixture screw 3 turns out
tps set

and it runs great nice power wheely in first almost no backfiring maybe a slight rumble,
and the carb farts or hiccups aren't complety gone but waaaayyyy less like in 5 or 10 min 1 or 2 and thats even without synching my carbs
but with choke out a bit it runs great to

so maybe 178 front and 180 rear and a synch ? or just the synch

greetings