CCT question...
07-25-2013, 03:01 PM
#1
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Superstock
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Seattle
Posts: 250
CCT question...
OK, I see that SH CCTs fail randomly, without warning. I bought mine not running afer sitting for 5 years, and I'm going to change both CCT units before riding it.
So here's the question: How come the SH has this design flaw, but the CCT seems to work well for so many other bikes?? I also have a VFR800, my daily driver, and on those forums, I have never heard of a CCT failure. There are threads about people replacing the CCT because their engine got noisy, but no catastrophic failures. So I don't quite get it.
If it's a design flaw, you would think a newer part would replicate the design from other bikes.
So here's the question: How come the SH has this design flaw, but the CCT seems to work well for so many other bikes?? I also have a VFR800, my daily driver, and on those forums, I have never heard of a CCT failure. There are threads about people replacing the CCT because their engine got noisy, but no catastrophic failures. So I don't quite get it.
If it's a design flaw, you would think a newer part would replicate the design from other bikes.
07-25-2013, 03:24 PM
#2
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 1,707
I have never heard of a CCT failure
Honda subsidised the VFR750 series with fitting cam driven cams after reliability issues on their earlier flagship VF750. Goodness knows why they went back to auto CCTs, but even Honda has accountants that win over engineers...
Much the same CCTs were fitted to other IL4s of the period as the VTR, but when they fail on four's there are other cylinders in the suck squash bang blow cycle providing a modicum of tension so they just rattle, rather than on the v-twin storm providing an opportunity for catastrophic failure when valves meet piston.
Still easily fixed by installing manual tensioners which I did after mine failed at 35,000 miles (a long time after Honda's warranty expired) at 30 mph on a steady throttle causing £500 of damage, 2 months on a loan bike, and a new front head.
Last edited by Wicky; 07-25-2013 at 03:27 PM.
07-25-2013, 03:28 PM
#3
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
OK, I see that SH CCTs fail randomly, without warning. I bought mine not running afer sitting for 5 years, and I'm going to change both CCT units before riding it.
So here's the question: How come the SH has this design flaw, but the CCT seems to work well for so many other bikes?? I also have a VFR800, my daily driver, and on those forums, I have never heard of a CCT failure. There are threads about people replacing the CCT because their engine got noisy, but no catastrophic failures. So I don't quite get it.
If it's a design flaw, you would think a newer part would replicate the design from other bikes.
So here's the question: How come the SH has this design flaw, but the CCT seems to work well for so many other bikes?? I also have a VFR800, my daily driver, and on those forums, I have never heard of a CCT failure. There are threads about people replacing the CCT because their engine got noisy, but no catastrophic failures. So I don't quite get it.
If it's a design flaw, you would think a newer part would replicate the design from other bikes.
There is nothing wrong with the CCT's in themselves... They don't fail more often on the VTR's than on any other Honda, really...
The difference is that on all inline engines you have more than one cylinder driving the cam's at all times, so when a CCT fails, you get noise, warning and shut the engine down without damage (unless you are really unlucky)...
On a V-twin, you have one cam shaft per cylinder... So when the CCT's do fail, the end result is catastrophic, since there are no other cylinders to keep the chain moving, and keep it from jumping... Ie, the engine self destructs...
07-25-2013, 03:36 PM
#4
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SuperBike
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Menifee, CA
Posts: 1,082
I would say the firing order has something to do with it. There are several SH members that are running stock tensioners at 60-100K miles with no problems. They do replace them at recommended intervals @30k miles.
Tweety and others have pointed to low oil levels, idling on the sidestand, excessive wheelies/stunting, excessive engine braking as additional causes of failure.
I have a set of Kreigers I haven't installed yet and I'm considering using oem. If anyone is interested the Kreigers are $50 shipped!
Crap Tweety beat me to it!
Tweety and others have pointed to low oil levels, idling on the sidestand, excessive wheelies/stunting, excessive engine braking as additional causes of failure.
I have a set of Kreigers I haven't installed yet and I'm considering using oem. If anyone is interested the Kreigers are $50 shipped!
Crap Tweety beat me to it!
07-25-2013, 11:11 PM
#6
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SuperBike
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New South Wales Australia
Posts: 1,544
I have kreigers in mine which I installed at 9,000Klms and whilst they are noisier than the OEM I know that they won't fail.
I have now got 18,000Klms and have only adjusted them once.
Piece of mind for a small cost!
I have now got 18,000Klms and have only adjusted them once.
Piece of mind for a small cost!
07-26-2013, 09:12 AM
#7
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Seattle
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Thanks for the info. I was already looking at the Kreigers, and I think I'm going to go with those.
Wicky, I'm sorry about your experience... so it may be true that your whole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others...?
Wicky, I'm sorry about your experience... so it may be true that your whole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others...?
07-27-2013, 11:09 AM
#12
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Superstock
Join Date: May 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 397
On his hawk the bolt backed out and you know the rest...
Apply some liquid gasket seal on the thread before winding in to seal around the thread to stop any oil creeping along, and if the locknut does loosen off it acts as a brake and slows it down from unwinding. But more importantly apply some under the locknut itself and make sure the nut is done up tight.
(:-})
07-29-2013, 02:44 PM
#16
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Posts: 250
Yeah, I know... I've always like the gear driven cams.... but now that I own one with them, I'm amazed at how noisy they are while riding. Anything fast enough to pick up my feet, and I can't hear the pipe at all, only the cam gears.
Oh well. At least I don't need to replace the CCTs on it, only the R/R.
Oh well. At least I don't need to replace the CCTs on it, only the R/R.
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