cct help
02-21-2007, 04:03 PM
#1
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cct help
I'm going to follow the honda manual for checking valve clearence I'm asumming this put each cyl.in tdc? my question is when I get to tdc on the cyl. I'm working on what order do I follow to remove the stock cct? take the center bolt out first then the other two bolts? I really need this to go as smooth as possible as I'm not very mechanicaly inclined and my local dealer is up to 65$ per hour!!!! all help is greatly appreciated
p.s. the manual describes making a stopper tool does this relieve tension on the tensioner??
Thanks,Neil
p.s. the manual describes making a stopper tool does this relieve tension on the tensioner??
Thanks,Neil
02-21-2007, 04:54 PM
#2
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Neil,
I'm not a guru or anything, but since I'm first on the scene...
Your signature says you have APE ccts. These would be aftermarket units.
OE ccts are spring-loaded, so that's why you would need the stopper tool. The APEs however, don't use a spring at all. I don't think you would need to completely remove either type of cct, just relieve the pressure that the cct is exerting on the cam chain. With the APEs, this would just involve rotating that particular cylinder to TDC, then loosening the locknut at the base of the cct shaft and then backing out the center bolt of your cct.
You probably want to mark the shaft of the cct somehow before backing it out, so you know how far to tighten it when you're done. Probably best to re-adjust your APEs while you're at it anyway.
I'm not a guru or anything, but since I'm first on the scene...
Your signature says you have APE ccts. These would be aftermarket units.
OE ccts are spring-loaded, so that's why you would need the stopper tool. The APEs however, don't use a spring at all. I don't think you would need to completely remove either type of cct, just relieve the pressure that the cct is exerting on the cam chain. With the APEs, this would just involve rotating that particular cylinder to TDC, then loosening the locknut at the base of the cct shaft and then backing out the center bolt of your cct.
You probably want to mark the shaft of the cct somehow before backing it out, so you know how far to tighten it when you're done. Probably best to re-adjust your APEs while you're at it anyway.
02-21-2007, 05:02 PM
#3
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sorry let me clarify I'm replacing my stock cct's with ape cct's I just got ahead of myself on my signeture!! so to remove the stock cct's I should make a stopper tool or if I'm at tdc can I just un-bolt and take out?
02-21-2007, 07:43 PM
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Careful
This is a very do-able project, but requires care. The cylinder that you are removing the stock cct and installing the APE cct on MUST be on TDC.. So take your time. There are good "walk throughs" on the forum. If your bike is low mileage like mine you will feel a freedom in the engine after changing them out. I removed the rear cylinder valve cover to check the cam alignment to assure myself that I had tdc, did the rear first.. When you have tdc... you can just unbolt stock ccts and remove and put APE's on.. Follow the forum info..it works.. on the front cylinder I just lifted the cover..hard to remove..lifted enough to see cams...I searched forum got all the info I needed...printed them..along with shop manual..good to go...If you can't find what you need..let me know I will try and direct you okay...
Take Care
Dave
Take Care
Dave
02-21-2007, 08:29 PM
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This is a very do-able project, but requires care. The cylinder that you are removing the stock cct and installing the APE cct on MUST be on TDC.. So take your time. There are good "walk throughs" on the forum. If your bike is low mileage like mine you will feel a freedom in the engine after changing them out. I removed the rear cylinder valve cover to check the cam alignment to assure myself that I had tdc, did the rear first.. When you have tdc... you can just unbolt stock ccts and remove and put APE's on.. Follow the forum info..it works.. on the front cylinder I just lifted the cover..hard to remove..lifted enough to see cams...I searched forum got all the info I needed...printed them..along with shop manual..good to go...If you can't find what you need..let me know I will try and direct you okay...
Take Care
Dave
Take Care
Dave
Thanks for the post Dave, I picked up a used set of APE's off ebay back in the fall. I too will be installing them soon.
So you commented that your SuperChicken felt like the engine ran smoother after installing them. I already have the second, third, forth (whatever version) generation Honda CCT's, and am looking forward to getting the goos stuff in there.
I will be yanking both valve covers and it is time to go back in and check the valve clerances and it has been about 15 K since i last checked them.
02-21-2007, 08:38 PM
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CCT's
Hey Guys
My "firestorm" had 5000 miles on it. When I was turning the engine over to find tdc..it was hard to turn. There was no deflection on the chain even at tdc.. After removing stock cct's and installing APE's the engine spun free with proper setting on APE's. I had done a baffleectomy, shimmed needles, set tps as well, new stock air filter. When started the engine snapped up in rpm quicker...Friction was less with manual cct's set properly. Might be less noticeable with more miles (wear) on cam chain..
Dave
My "firestorm" had 5000 miles on it. When I was turning the engine over to find tdc..it was hard to turn. There was no deflection on the chain even at tdc.. After removing stock cct's and installing APE's the engine spun free with proper setting on APE's. I had done a baffleectomy, shimmed needles, set tps as well, new stock air filter. When started the engine snapped up in rpm quicker...Friction was less with manual cct's set properly. Might be less noticeable with more miles (wear) on cam chain..
Dave
02-22-2007, 06:29 AM
#7
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The tools makes it so you can gradually release tension on the device (it screws in clockwise and winds back the spring loaded tensior - a small flat blade will work but you just have to hold it there. If you don't do that, removing the two securing bolts will work but the thing will be 'loaded' and be pushing back out at you as your are removing it. Definitely take the valve cover off and use a sharpy to mark the cam chain and sprocket so you know the chain/sprocket doesn't move during the process and change the valve timing. Others have suggested using rip ties to secure chain to sprocket - the point is knowing the stay in place and the chain doesn't move. Once the CCT is off there is quite a bit of slack, even on the small segment between the two sprockets.
bill
bill
02-22-2007, 02:19 PM
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When the cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke the cam lobes are both off the valve buckets. In this position there is no pressure on the cam and therefore the cam chain. So you do not have any concern of the chain skipping a tooth.
It is the valve springs exerting force on the chain that causes them to jump when you remove the CCT. The extra slack in the chain allow it to move. There is no pressure from the springs at TDC on compression, and this is the best spot to remove your CCT's.
As suggested you can cable tie the chains, however this requires removal of the valve covers. I prefer to use the shortcut of removing one bolt on the front valve cover to enable you to see the cam lobe, and therefore determine position of the cam, and compression stroke. This works well.
In this case, as the owner has the covers off anyway so using the shortcut is not really an issue. In this case it is best to have it at TDC on compression.
It is the valve springs exerting force on the chain that causes them to jump when you remove the CCT. The extra slack in the chain allow it to move. There is no pressure from the springs at TDC on compression, and this is the best spot to remove your CCT's.
As suggested you can cable tie the chains, however this requires removal of the valve covers. I prefer to use the shortcut of removing one bolt on the front valve cover to enable you to see the cam lobe, and therefore determine position of the cam, and compression stroke. This works well.
In this case, as the owner has the covers off anyway so using the shortcut is not really an issue. In this case it is best to have it at TDC on compression.
02-22-2007, 03:34 PM
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thanks guys for all the input I figure if I'm going to a battle I want all the wepons I can get. My head covers are loose and ready to come off I'm just waiting for a full day to work. I don't want to be rushed!! I searched cct's but never found enough info to print anything as far as steps of procedure.
Shayne, I'm assuming that if I follow the valve clearance section of the honda manual that will put each cyl. I'm working on in tdc as you would put the feeler guage between the valve lifter and the cam lobe correct??
My buddy works for a honda shop and set up a time I can talk to a mechanic tommorrow, as I can have no mistakes!!
if anyone would like some pics of the procedure I'll try my best to get good photos My bike is pretty tore down and I can still barely reach the front ****!!!
Thanks again guy's I appreciate all the advice. worst case there will be alot of parts on e-bay!!!!
Shayne, I'm assuming that if I follow the valve clearance section of the honda manual that will put each cyl. I'm working on in tdc as you would put the feeler guage between the valve lifter and the cam lobe correct??
My buddy works for a honda shop and set up a time I can talk to a mechanic tommorrow, as I can have no mistakes!!
if anyone would like some pics of the procedure I'll try my best to get good photos My bike is pretty tore down and I can still barely reach the front ****!!!
Thanks again guy's I appreciate all the advice. worst case there will be alot of parts on e-bay!!!!
02-22-2007, 07:30 PM
#10
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I would have to check the manual to be absolutely positive on this, but I think you are probably right there. To check both valves at once would mean both valves closed, which would only be on the compresssion stroke (thinking, thinking). So this would be the same as the CCT change position (I think).
I don't have my manual handy, but this should be right. Have a quick look in your manual in regards to changing a CCT, it should be the same piston position. It is possible valve check poistion is different for some reason so have a look first.
I don't have my manual handy, but this should be right. Have a quick look in your manual in regards to changing a CCT, it should be the same piston position. It is possible valve check poistion is different for some reason so have a look first.
02-22-2007, 08:10 PM
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sorry guys , Right now I'm acting as a sponge on this thread . but is there any way, if someone feels like typing a little more 
that you could explain cct,ape,tdc etc. just tryin to learn amap
that you could explain cct,ape,tdc etc. just tryin to learn amap
02-22-2007, 09:34 PM
#12
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cct- cam chain tensionerape- american performance engineering-makers of ccts
tdc-top dead center-piston location in stroke
etc-etcetera-and so forth
02-22-2007, 09:58 PM
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so pretty much this all entails things with the heads off (I havent gotten that far yet)thankfully . but thanks for the explanation. and why do they say the cct's go bad is that a model (vtr1000)thing or an engine thing 1000 vtwin layout thing?
02-22-2007, 10:13 PM
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seems the 'Hawk ccts cause damage when they let go but a lot, maybe most, Jap bikes with automatic ccts have cheesy ccts. some models get hydraulic ones and will actually over pressurize them and over tension the cam chain causing pretty severe damage. or so I've heard. I won't mention (GSXR) any names.
02-25-2007, 06:24 AM
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well guys I'm done with the cct swap it went fairly smooth. I used the method of checking valve clearence to find tdc and it worked!!! I did the front first because space was limited and I have no pateints. It helped me to remove the coolant hose from the thermostat housing. The rear was easy I got that done in ten minutes.The bike fired right up and ran fine I may have to adjust them in the spring, but that seems fairly simple, I basically turned them in hand tight then about a quarter turn. I tried backing them out with engine running but heard no noise and my wife was bitching about the exhaust smell in the house as I was working in the basement!!! Shayne your a genuis I removed my head covers to see what I was doing but it took me longer to re-install it then the whole swap!!! I'll just remove one or two bolts and peek under to check cam lobes if there is a next time!! Thanks to everyone who added there opinions all help was appreciated.
Thanks,Neil
Thanks,Neil
03-31-2007, 08:43 PM
#17
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No removal of valve covers to find TDC
I just ordered some APE manual tensioners tonight, and after reading these posts about slipping cam chains and the need for TDC, I think I have an idea that can help you find TDC without removing anything but the spark plugs.
Acquire a plastic or rubber hose that is a press-fit into a spark plug hole. cut it so you can have one end in your mouth while you manually turn the engine over. You should be able to blow through the hose until both valves are closed and you to feel the piston start to come up on the compression stroke forcing air into your mouth. Then remove the hose and using a bore light or other method, determine when the piston is at the top of its travel.
That would be TDC. Should save some time if you're only replacing the CCT without adjusting the valves.
Acquire a plastic or rubber hose that is a press-fit into a spark plug hole. cut it so you can have one end in your mouth while you manually turn the engine over. You should be able to blow through the hose until both valves are closed and you to feel the piston start to come up on the compression stroke forcing air into your mouth. Then remove the hose and using a bore light or other method, determine when the piston is at the top of its travel.
That would be TDC. Should save some time if you're only replacing the CCT without adjusting the valves.
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