uchi

My buddy finished setting up the carbs on my bike. We used the crappy dynojet kit in it. He's got it running well but its still a little chuggy down low. I'm not carb smart so I'm going by what he told me to ask. He said he had the shim the crap out ofthe needles and its still not running right so I need to know what else we can do. His parts books aren't showing him much so were turning to here. What are my options? The bike runs great he had to drill out the jets in it to make it run good but the needles are the problem. Does factory pro make a needle we can use?

residentg

most folks here are running 48 pilots. the stock front and rear needles are different, not sure about the DJs.

8541Hawk

Actually most run the stock #45 pilots but I am a big proponent of going one up on the pilot and leaving the mains stock.

Now for the OP's issues. The first red flag is the need to drill out the mains.... not really a good idea but that is just my opinion.

Then the giant hole in the mid-range, have you modified the airbox and what air filter are you running?

Well that's it for a start.

Cheers,
Mike

RK1

uchi;

My first thought is that maybe your friend thinks he knows more about jetting carbs than he actually does.

Dynojet needles are adjusted by placing the e-clip in one of the six grooves on the shaft of the needle. Don't understand why anyone would want to "shim the crap" out of them.

I think it makes more sense to replace jets for about $4 each rather than drill them. That way you know what you've actually done.

The stock pilot jets (aka "slow jets") are #45. Some people go to #48 and are happy with the result but most re-jetted bikes run perfectly well with the #45.

Dynojet says if you install one of their kits and find the bike runs better with a larger pilot jet, that means you're compensating for not having set up everything else properly.

I don't know. I just know my VTR runs perfectly with the Dynojet kit and #45 pilots.

mikstr

My bike has been running a DJ since very early on and has been running flawlessly through various stages of mods ( to this day I challenge anyone to show me a VTR with sharper engine response). I would suggest it is not the DJ kit that is crappy but the chap who tuned it improperly. Drilling out the mains? WTF!!!! The alarm should have gone off for you at that point!

uchi

well hes a licensed honda mechanic for almost 15 years now, the guy took a bike that barely ran and made it run extremely well. the only issues the bike has is when it gets hot below around 3000 or so rpm it gets a little chuggy, other than that when the temps are below 100 (212) it runs fine, just when she gets over that. again i may have missed something int he message from him and may have posted it wrong. the dj kit i bought from here was incomplete and when john had the bike he basically ordered half of the components needed to make it run. aside from the low rpm chugging when it gets hot the bike runs flawlessly, it pulls clean all the way to the limiter in higher gears doesnt hesitate doesnt do anything it shouldnt, its just when it gets hot at lower rpms. what should i suggest for him in this situation?

also hes got the special drill bits to open up the jets, the bike needed them open, it was running lean and the jets he needed werent in the kit. theres no airbox mod, im running a paper filter, shortened jardine high mounts that have had the insides modded and the pair systems been removed. also there are no holes no flat spots nothing as i roll through the rpms, its clean and very smooth all the way through.

thetophatflash

I've run Dynojet for the last 26 years and they have worked flawlessly. Last year I added a Flo Commander and that made fine tuning a piece of cake.

Tweety

To me it seems like a typical IL4 tuner doing a V-twin tune problem... Not trying to reflect badly on the guy (I'm guessing it's the john who has also posted here?) But I have seen it times and times again... Their experience tuning IL4's is basically working against them...

The VTR doesn't respond well to being tuned for the top end... The result is that it feels like a IL4 but with choppy bottom, just like you describe it, pulls clean and feels fine as long as you rev it...

Instead tune it with a slightly rich idle, a wee bit lower on power at the top end and you get a punch in the middle of the powerband that makes you ask yourself what you where doing before... The bottom then becomes clean and grunty, the middle has a much wider area where you get loads of torque and the top end rolls of further down than an IL4 but with a less sharp roll of...

The middle of the powerband that felt "fine" before is now several steps beyond "fine"...

It's a question of having to fight the urge to raise that top number... An instinct most tuners have to suppress to make a VTR sing... The reason is partly the character of a big twin, partly because the honking big carbs sitting underneath that airbox is a wee bit particular as they are probably on the limits of what is practical for this engine... The reason being that theymake a great balance between being able to go touring, and being able to produce bbig fun... All in one package...

I'd start with getting a set of #45 or #48 jets in there (unless the drilling was to make the #45's into #48s?) and then keep your hands of them and tune from there...

uchi

thanks for the info guys, ive got a dynojet kit in both of my race quads and they both seem to run fine with them with the exception of the stroker i have in one of them that seems to foul a plug if i just cruise for too long at a set rpm.

so what should i say about the needle then when i talk to him again? and the guy doing the carbs wasnt john who worked on the bike, he was only able to get it so far, my buddy korry is doing the carbs for me, hes talented with bikes to say the least and im going by what he said to the best of what i can remember.

Tweety

Well tell him to stick a #48 pilot and stock main jet or alternatively #45 pilot and one size up on the main in there... Then set up according to manual and fine tune from there... It probably goes against his instincts... But believe me it works... I listened to some of these guys when I started fiddling... And it goes against common "truths" as most other tuners told me... But it works and I have fine tuned mine and other VTR's like this... And it beats the snot out of what several of them had done by shops before with decidedly more exotic setups... Both on paper and in real world rideability...

BTW I also use a FC and it works... It doesn't gain you anything that isn't already there, it just makes it possible to find all that is really there...

mikstr

what are you running for pilots Markus?

Tweety

I have all that written down in my logbook in the shop... But I have to much other use for my brain than keeping all that in there... But from memory, last setup is with #48 pilots...

mikstr

great, thanks

uchi

thanks for the help, ill copy and paste the info over to him and hopefully we can achieve a great end result without it costing me anymore money, lol

comedo

The needle that came with a Factory Pro kit I put in a number of years ago was a #1110e5-62s-40tv9_ti. They list an optional needle that is a bit richer: #1108e5-62s-40tv9.

residentg

Wow! I missed the part about drilling the jets - not a good idea. You can't get it perfect unless you have $10k worth of equipment - just buy the correct jets and be safe. I used to drill out Briggs and Stratton jets for my gokarts because there were no other jets to buy. You do it by hand with numbered drill bits. I would never do that for a bike carb. Maybe get a new jet kit and start over, I think that is what I would do.

uchi

Thanks for the part number comedo. Thanks for the help guys ill pass the rest of the info along to him.

uchi

ive been doing my reading, the factory pro site is a bit of a bitch to navigate to say the least, but from what im reading theyre saying that unless the tps is set to 500 ohms that low rpm cruising will not be smooth and will be impossible to attain, so i think im gonna follow the guide on here and check mine when my regulator comes in this week.

shayne

To reiterate what tweety has said to some extent, the mains are the first thing to get right, but it is easy to have too small jets in there. I have seen tuners using 165's etc to set the AFR just right, but the bike will not ride well. If yours have been drilled then what size are they now????????? I would buy some 180 -182's and try them as a starting point. This is a common size in a lot of bikes.

The main jets will have some effect on the whole rev range, that is how a CV carb works. Your mains could be the problem, so get them back to what we all know will be close and try the needles in about the 4th clip position from the top. They should have one shim underneath them.

Hopefully that will have you pretty close.

uchi

thanks for the help guys, please dont think im being difficult its not my intention

i message my buddy who set the carbs up about the main sizes and ill post them up when i get a reply from him. i am going to set the tps tonite or tomorrow as it hasnt been done and while the bike is still apart i might aswell do it and then we'll get working on the mains. ill try to keep this post going with updates, perhaps itll help someone out in the future who runs into a similar situation

mikstr

I have to disagree. Based on all the "miracle cure" testimonies related to this very adjustment, I tried it and went back to teh OEM setting (well over 800 ohms if I rmember correctly). With the tps set at 500, I saw no benefit whatsoever (no added smoothness, no improved fuel economy or engine response). In fact, what I did notice was that the engine responsive became lazy, not quite what I was seeking. Also, even at the higher setting, my VTR cruises no problem at any speed. Try it if you like, but you may not get teh miracle cure you`re expecting.

uchi

I think I remember readin that in the other post. I guess it worjs for some but not others. Ill try it just to have the piece of mind about it. Also the 45s were drilled to 1hat he said is almost a 48. So I'm gonna order some 48s just to make sure they're correct and swap them out.

Hawkagain

Mikstr, Your results to the Holy Grail TPS adjustment are more inline with what I would expect for a properly jetted machine. A slight increase in static timing might compensate for a poor mixture but little else. I even wonder about that. I admit that I do not know how sophisticated the Honda firmware is but many ECUs do a calibration of the TPS at startup and there is often a note in the manual to not step on the gas while starting. If the ECU does do a cal at startup the TPS setting would be almost irrelevant.

uchi

well i reinstalled the regulater today as my old one died and was making noise the last half hour of my ride, and also adjusted the tps. it was set to 818 ohms, i was able to get it to 588, she wouldnt turn anymore. fired it up, she ran. put everything back together again fired it up, gave it a minute or two to warm up and the throttle response feels alot better, shes definatly alot snappier now and alot more eager to rev than before. unfortunatly the weather here has been terrible the last few days and i likely wont get to go for a ride on it until tomorrow to know if my issues have been resolved or if theyre better or what. so lets hope for the best

killer5280

I agree. Adjusting the TPS on mine made no discernible difference.

mikstr

"no discernible difference" would be an improvement over what I experienced....