Bike wont start
02-22-2007, 11:18 AM
#1
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Bike wont start
1998 SuperHawk 23k. Never had a problem with it. Small drip from leaky crush washer on drain plug. By small I mean like a quarter size drip a month. Left a small spot of coolant on the floor in October. Couldnt find leak, and hadn't leaked since.
I rode it 2 weeks ago. It started up great. Ran great. Was about 20 degrees out. I put fresh gas in it. Rode around 40 miles.
1 week later, -10 degs. Wont start. Battery seems pretty weak. Gave up and figured I would start it when it warmed up.
Last Sunday, see larger puddle of coolant on left side of bike. Not huge, less than a half pint. The bike has radiators on both sides. About 10 degrees. Thought that was odd...
Monday, try to start it. Turns over weird. Almost too easy. Exhaust is coming out. It doesnt start up. It's carbed, but usually if I choke it, dont give it gas, it will start up. It doesnt sound like its popping off like it usually does. It usually sounds pretty throaty when it tries to start. This isnt the case. No backfiring either. The starter is turning the engine over because there is exhaust coming out both pipes, however there is a crossover pipe in the exhaust. Check the oil, and nothing registers on the site glass. There is no oily residue on the tire or either of the exhaust pipes. No spots on the floor really. The anti-freeze that was on the floor was bright green, not with oil mixed in it. I didnt change the antifreeze this fall. It looked in good shape and I haven't had a problem with it the last winters.
Now guess the problem if you can. I am going to change the oil, filter and crush washer. Pull the fairings off and look for the coolant leak.
I rode it 2 weeks ago. It started up great. Ran great. Was about 20 degrees out. I put fresh gas in it. Rode around 40 miles.
1 week later, -10 degs. Wont start. Battery seems pretty weak. Gave up and figured I would start it when it warmed up.
Last Sunday, see larger puddle of coolant on left side of bike. Not huge, less than a half pint. The bike has radiators on both sides. About 10 degrees. Thought that was odd...
Monday, try to start it. Turns over weird. Almost too easy. Exhaust is coming out. It doesnt start up. It's carbed, but usually if I choke it, dont give it gas, it will start up. It doesnt sound like its popping off like it usually does. It usually sounds pretty throaty when it tries to start. This isnt the case. No backfiring either. The starter is turning the engine over because there is exhaust coming out both pipes, however there is a crossover pipe in the exhaust. Check the oil, and nothing registers on the site glass. There is no oily residue on the tire or either of the exhaust pipes. No spots on the floor really. The anti-freeze that was on the floor was bright green, not with oil mixed in it. I didnt change the antifreeze this fall. It looked in good shape and I haven't had a problem with it the last winters.
Now guess the problem if you can. I am going to change the oil, filter and crush washer. Pull the fairings off and look for the coolant leak.
02-22-2007, 01:49 PM
#2
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Leaks could simply be hoses need tightening.
You said battery was weak and then continue to say it turns too easy; sounds conflicting. Really cold there, a freshly charged battery would do wonders. Engine stop switch set to run? I never use it (key only) so I sometime forget to check that and it's been accidentally bumped to off.
You said battery was weak and then continue to say it turns too easy; sounds conflicting. Really cold there, a freshly charged battery would do wonders. Engine stop switch set to run? I never use it (key only) so I sometime forget to check that and it's been accidentally bumped to off.
02-22-2007, 04:59 PM
#3
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Thanks Bling.
Tonight I got to work on it a little bit. I think the battery is shot. I put a charger on it. I pulled it out and its the original battery. Bike is a 98.
The switch is on the on position. I do the same thing you do. That is almost what it sounds like. Tonight I changed the oil. There was no antifreeze in the oil. I could not see where any antifreeze has leaked out but it hasnt leaked any more since sunday. I took some video of it turning over, even with the charger on it. I will get them posted up on youtube and link ya when they load.
heres one...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b85WahU8RRM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWUpTVgd5RE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCmc-anY7DU
they take a while to load so check back in a while if they dont work right away.
Tonight I got to work on it a little bit. I think the battery is shot. I put a charger on it. I pulled it out and its the original battery. Bike is a 98.
The switch is on the on position. I do the same thing you do. That is almost what it sounds like. Tonight I changed the oil. There was no antifreeze in the oil. I could not see where any antifreeze has leaked out but it hasnt leaked any more since sunday. I took some video of it turning over, even with the charger on it. I will get them posted up on youtube and link ya when they load.
heres one...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b85WahU8RRM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWUpTVgd5RE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCmc-anY7DU
they take a while to load so check back in a while if they dont work right away.
02-22-2007, 07:01 PM
#4
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Videos load. What the heck is that background noise? Camera sitting on the charger? LOL.
Yeah, bike sounds like it turning over fast enough to start but no combustion. Next, I'd check the spark, if that's good and healthy on both leads, then check for fouled plugs. If they are good, I'd check the fueling system next.
Yeah, bike sounds like it turning over fast enough to start but no combustion. Next, I'd check the spark, if that's good and healthy on both leads, then check for fouled plugs. If they are good, I'd check the fueling system next.
02-22-2007, 11:22 PM
#8
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Sounds stupid, but make sure you don't have a vacume issue in the gas tank. This could keep gas from flowing to the carbs. Pop the top on the tank if you haven't already done this.
I would guess the leaks are just normal loose hose clamps. mine have to be tightened occasionally. Water hoses leak more in extreme cold weather than they do in the heat.
Sounds to me like she is turning over the same spped as mine does. I would for sure replace a battery that is that old. You are just asking for a battery to go bad and burn-up your voltage regulator.
Try opening the tank cap and let us know what happens.
Eliminate the stupid stuff next like fuse, spark at plug, fuel to the plug (should be wet).
I usually run 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and water; however i sometimes run straight distilled water and water wetter.
I wouldn't think you have a busted block.
if the gas cap trick doen't work pull the front plug and verify fuel is getting to the plug and or make sure no green liquid comes out of the cylinder.
I would guess the leaks are just normal loose hose clamps. mine have to be tightened occasionally. Water hoses leak more in extreme cold weather than they do in the heat.
Sounds to me like she is turning over the same spped as mine does. I would for sure replace a battery that is that old. You are just asking for a battery to go bad and burn-up your voltage regulator.
Try opening the tank cap and let us know what happens.
Eliminate the stupid stuff next like fuse, spark at plug, fuel to the plug (should be wet).
I usually run 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and water; however i sometimes run straight distilled water and water wetter.
I wouldn't think you have a busted block.
if the gas cap trick doen't work pull the front plug and verify fuel is getting to the plug and or make sure no green liquid comes out of the cylinder.
03-16-2007, 11:56 AM
#9
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I replaced the battery. No change. I havent had a chance to dig too much but I have an inkling that it isnt getting fuel. Does that bike have a fuel pump? I went to this site and checked out the microfiche online and it doesnt have one on there that I can find. I have tomorrow off work with nothing to do so I am going to see if there is fuel and spark at the engine like you suggested. There is no fuel coming out of the exhaust and no smell of gas. I popped the cap before I read this a few times actually because I thought of that same thing. Gas smells good and there is plenty of it in there. The tank hasnt been removed or anything so its not like there would be a pinched line on it. If there is a fuel pump, is it electric? If so, maybe there is a blown fuse or relay? When I hit the start button, I hear clicking from a relay in the box where the passenger would sit. So I know its getting the right signal from the ignition switch. I will have more details tomorrow when I have time to dig into it. It has yet to leak any more coolant since this post.
fyi link to microfiche 1998 vtr 1000f
http://216.37.204.206/wps/Honda_OEM/...?Type=12&A=215
is #34 the fuel pump or what is that?? under fuel tank chart.
http://216.37.204.206/wps/Honda_OEM/...=13&A=245&B=42
fyi link to microfiche 1998 vtr 1000f
http://216.37.204.206/wps/Honda_OEM/...?Type=12&A=215
is #34 the fuel pump or what is that?? under fuel tank chart.
http://216.37.204.206/wps/Honda_OEM/...=13&A=245&B=42
03-16-2007, 04:02 PM
#10
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No fuel pump, if you want to know if the carb receive fuel, take a small flat screwdriver and loosen the lowest screw of the fuel bowl (looks like a small oil pan with a nipple) and the fuel should pour out, if it does you can rule out fuel issue, you can try to collect it to see if there is water in it, check these plugs for wet foul, is the exhaust smell gas ?? With the plugs out at least you can ground them and see if you get a spark. Blow air in the cylinders to remove gas vapors. Put it all back together and try again.
03-22-2007, 03:50 PM
#11
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ok so I finally got to diggin into it today. I pulled the wire off the front cyl and stuffed a good spark plug in it and grounded it on the block. nice bright blue spark. I already put a new battery in it last week. I pulled the tank off. its got plenty of fuel. I pulled the right line off the petcock under the tank. No fuel came out. Bone dry. I am trying to pull the left line off the petcock but it's really hard to remove. I turned the fuel off and on and nothing came out of the open line on the petcock. Isnt there a diaphram or something in there that controls the fuel supply and reserve??
03-22-2007, 04:16 PM
#14
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sigh... I just talked to my dad and he told me to get some short fuel line and put it on the petcock and try sucking fuel out of the petcock. I guess I will do that maybe tomorrow after work. It's getting dark out and Im hungry. Thanks Scooby.
03-22-2007, 04:43 PM
#15
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There is a small vacuum line from under a carb grommet on a cylinder. It runs to the other side of the fuel valve (nuts side) just make sure this line is hooked up. And still check if the fuel bowls are filled with gas.
03-22-2007, 10:52 PM
#17
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Just checking because this has happened MANY times in the past. I don't think it's been mentioned in this particular thread....
Ensure the small line going to the petcock is NOT hooked up to the nipple on the bottom. It goes to the nipple on the back (seat side), and is hard to see unless you look for it.
[edit] What I just wrote only clarifies what gboezio said. Sorry to be redundant.
Ensure the small line going to the petcock is NOT hooked up to the nipple on the bottom. It goes to the nipple on the back (seat side), and is hard to see unless you look for it.
[edit] What I just wrote only clarifies what gboezio said. Sorry to be redundant.
03-24-2007, 04:19 PM
#21
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well today wasnt a good day for me or the bike. my dad came over this am and picked it up with the trailer. he got home and called to tell me the bike fell over in the trailer. gulp.... its an enclosed snowmobile trailer and the tie down eyelets are staggered and not straight across from each other. usually isnt a problem but it was today. anyways, now the tail is scratched, exhaust can is scratched, turn signal is broken, and the brakes are messed up. i just bled them and put fresh fluid in last fall, so i think i have to do that again. i think air got in the lines from layin on its side. the rear brake is sticking now too. ugh... just shoot me.
03-24-2007, 04:40 PM
#22
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lol u may just want to sell the bike. sounds like the bike gods does not want u to ride that bike. I really hope that u get it going. its got to be killing u to know that u got something u cant ride. Its bad if u are makeing payments on it to and it just sets there. Just to bad that the payment book dont set there
03-24-2007, 05:12 PM
#23
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luckily i paid cash for the bike 3 years ago so thats not an issue. motorcycling is my life tho and this is really killing me. i have another bike that is broken too so i am completely out.
oh and about the bike gods? well i think im just paying my dues... i put over 15k on it this summer/fall/ winter. for minnesota, thats pretty good. over 25k on it with only tires, chain, sprockets, oil and oil filter put into it!
oh and about the bike gods? well i think im just paying my dues... i put over 15k on it this summer/fall/ winter. for minnesota, thats pretty good. over 25k on it with only tires, chain, sprockets, oil and oil filter put into it!
03-24-2007, 05:42 PM
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hope you get it running w/o to many problems!! about the brakes I went to auto zone and bought a 30$ mighty-vac tool and it worked great the lever is better than it ever was and it's so fast I bled both front and rear brakes then flushed the clutch line/resivior since it looked like I was running motor oil for clutch fluid!!! just my .o2
03-24-2007, 05:44 PM
#25
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yeah I did that at a friends shop this fall. that was the way to do it. hopefully it will pull out all the air in the lines. thanks a ton neil. if you have any suggestions on rear undertails, I would appreciate that in my other post in cosmetic mods. :-)
03-24-2007, 09:56 PM
#26
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I hope your luck changes here soon. I know how you feel, in 2005 I had a horrible accident. My brother rear ended meat 40mph. I was laid up for a couple of weeks, and my bike was a mess.
When I finally got my bike put back together it wouldn't run. I took it to Country Motor Sports ( my local dealership ) 3 times..... each time they told me they fixed it, and they never did. All it was, was a vaccum line ( that we both being myself and the mech. ) put no the wrong fitting on the back of the fuel petcock (Hawkrider's suggestion). All I did was swop the line around and it fired right up. The shity thing of it is it took me most of the 2006 riding season to finger it out. So I hope you have better luck then mine.
When I finally got my bike put back together it wouldn't run. I took it to Country Motor Sports ( my local dealership ) 3 times..... each time they told me they fixed it, and they never did. All it was, was a vaccum line ( that we both being myself and the mech. ) put no the wrong fitting on the back of the fuel petcock (Hawkrider's suggestion). All I did was swop the line around and it fired right up. The shity thing of it is it took me most of the 2006 riding season to finger it out. So I hope you have better luck then mine.
03-25-2007, 06:17 AM
#27
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I know how it feels, one day I parked my new shiny ZX-9 on the driveway, and went inside, blah blah blah kaboom ??? UH could not see my mirrors anymore. I don't know how this stupid event could damage so much stuff. And the worst were my friends that were saying that I dropped the bike. Bad days, but you'll get over it, Start searching flea-bay already for spare parts.
03-25-2007, 07:05 AM
#28
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luckily the plastics arent too bad. I popped the turn signal back together for the moment. dont know if that will hold. Dad polished out the exhaust and its all good now. just gotta get that fuel figured out, the braked fixed now, and the undertail fixed. heading over there today to work on it. i will keep ya up to date and maybe take pics if ya want.
sorry about your disaster Johnny. I hope ya smacked him around a bit when ya got back to health.
that sucks gb... i think friends can really be the worst when it comes to this stuff huh?
sorry about your disaster Johnny. I hope ya smacked him around a bit when ya got back to health.
that sucks gb... i think friends can really be the worst when it comes to this stuff huh?
03-25-2007, 02:07 PM
#29
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Ok so here is the update. Dad and I are at a loss here I think.
pulled both plugs. both are dry. they are ngks with quite a few miles on them so I am goign to replace them. the gap is pretty big on them but we knocked it down a little bit and cleaned them up. Cant get new ones on a sunday. Air filter was dirty. We cant get it started by pouring fuel in the carbs, or starting fluid. we took the air box cover off, and those slides on the carbs are closed. They dont open at all unless you manually push them back. Is that normal? (its the slides, not the butterflies in the carbs.) When we drained the gas tank and poured some in a cup to pour into the carbs, there was water settled in the bottom of the cup. quite a bit of it actually. We poured the gas in and tried starting fluid with out even a pop or backfire. The spark on the plugs is a white color, and it is firing alot. We are thinking it might be the timing of the spark causing the issue. is there a computer that controls the spark timing? we pulled the ignition fuse and that is good also. We also tried checking the spark when the kill switch is on vs off. That all works properly. We checked the compression too. It has compression. We checked that petcock with a vacuum tester thing and that works great also. Im guessing its getting fuel so we need to see what controls the timing....
any ideas now anyone????
pulled both plugs. both are dry. they are ngks with quite a few miles on them so I am goign to replace them. the gap is pretty big on them but we knocked it down a little bit and cleaned them up. Cant get new ones on a sunday. Air filter was dirty. We cant get it started by pouring fuel in the carbs, or starting fluid. we took the air box cover off, and those slides on the carbs are closed. They dont open at all unless you manually push them back. Is that normal? (its the slides, not the butterflies in the carbs.) When we drained the gas tank and poured some in a cup to pour into the carbs, there was water settled in the bottom of the cup. quite a bit of it actually. We poured the gas in and tried starting fluid with out even a pop or backfire. The spark on the plugs is a white color, and it is firing alot. We are thinking it might be the timing of the spark causing the issue. is there a computer that controls the spark timing? we pulled the ignition fuse and that is good also. We also tried checking the spark when the kill switch is on vs off. That all works properly. We checked the compression too. It has compression. We checked that petcock with a vacuum tester thing and that works great also. Im guessing its getting fuel so we need to see what controls the timing....
any ideas now anyone????
03-25-2007, 05:39 PM
#30
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Well get those new plugs, the slides are normally closed so it's normal, drain all the tank, carb fuel bowl to get the water out, use a clear container and get rid of the water and keep the old gas for the lawnmower. Blow air in the spark plug holes to clean the cylinders and install the new fresh plugs, it should fire right up.
