Chemtooler

1998 hawk
After my latest round of improvements, I have encountered starting problems.
After short trips 3-15 miles the bike will not start and acts like the battery is dead.(I have not ridden it any further since the latest work)
I was able to jump start it once, and the other time I charged the battery and it started fine. I was guessing the R/R, so I ordered a new one from electroSport and replaced the original non-finned unit. Today it was the same thing. After my commute home the bike was difficult to start and acted like the battery was weak.
The battery is only 3 months old and the only other thing I can think of is a bad stator, but it checked out ok with voltmeter. (following motovoltage test diagram).
So now I am thinking it might be the Eastern Beaver relay kit I just put on. Is it possible that the head light is drawing more current with the relays and running down the battery? I did change the headlight, it is still a 65w (a new wagner Truview BP9003TV2) which from my understanding is the same as a H4 bulb.
I disconnected the Eastern Beaver and will try again tomorrow.
Should I look at the stator?

Tweety

You were guessing on the R/R... Not measuring?

And the battery was not replaced when the R/R was replaced?

What are your charging voltages now? With and without the relay kit since you are suspecting that...

Try to answear those questions and you should atleast have a few leads to follow...

lazn

Also a bad R/R can kill a nice shiny new battery.. So do test the battery too. Is it still under warranty?

Chemtooler

Well, a 1998 with the original non fined R/R in Florida heat, I was going to replace it for peace of mind.

OK voltages:
Off: 12.75 V
idle: 14.62 V
5000 rpm: 14.47 V

all of which appear to be OK according to the electrosport fault finding flow chart.

lazn

Yes, those all look good. The R/R that is in there now isn't the problem, nor is the stator. Unless you have something draining the battery when the bike is off, I'd say it is a bad battery. (And I don't see how the Eastern Beaver wiring could be a problem)

Chemtooler

Yes, I am beginning to think it might be the battery as well. When I start the bike the battery voltage dropped below 9.60 volts, which I was told means it has a bad cell. However, when I start it again, it stays above 9.60 and even up to 10.11 volts when it has the starter load.

PS> Thanks for all the help so far.
I will hook up the Eastern Beaver set-up again and check the voltages with it installed tomorrow.

nuhawk

Check the connector under your *******!

Chemtooler

Just went for a short test ride. Still the same problem, weak battery after ride. I think my battery has a bad cell. It is still under warranty, so I will try to get a replacement.

nath981

I had that kinda **** going on. Went through 2 batteries and two R/Rs before I got it sorted out. I know When I bought a new Yuasa and charged it according to the instructions,went to hook it up and fried a new R/R. I connected the pos terminal first as per usual. When I went to hook up the ground, the R/R started smoking. Before I could disconnect, it was too late. I was later informed via a thread on this forum that the R/R is overly sensitive to this method. I guess your supposed to hook up the neg post first to avoid frying the R/R. Anyway, before I hooked up the pos cable, I held it on the post with my finger to see if there was going to be any smoke from the R/R. It was OK so, keeping it against the terminal, I slid the bolt in and tightened without allowing it to move away from the terminal. Also, the first battery that went south because it wasn't given the proper initial charge. There is a thread somewhere discussing the particular issue I just described.

Chemtooler

I am still lost....
I put in a new battery and still have the same problem: the battery is weak after a ride, and only has enough juice to start the bike twice before it just cannot turn the engine.

Just to review:
New R/R, new battery, stator check out, and voltages at idle and 5000 rpm are all ok.

I did a leak down check and found the odometer was pulling some current, which is normal, but I pulled the fuse to see it that helps.

I cleaned all contacts on the battery, frame, fuses, starter relay, engine ground, and on the starter.

I don't think it is a short because I it does not appear to be a problem when the bike sits, just when it runs.

Now I am starting to question everything. Could I have the APE CCTs too tight? would this make the engine harder to crank?
Could it just be a starter going bad and shorting out when starting?

I don't know. Please offer any suggestions--thanks.

lazn

Well you could mount one of these: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=95779 to see if the voltage remains good while riding..

As for hard to crank, that'd be slow cranking, not low voltage.

nath981

the odometer will pull a small negligible amt., but no serious drag. Did you have the battery load tested? Because as stated in my earlier post, new battery doesn't necessarily mean good battery.

Chemtooler

The new battery is a megaboost from cycle gear. It has a lifetime warranty. I could not find a YUASA without having to order one. I went with a megaboost when I took back a durabost which was only 3 months old. I don't know much about the megaboost - do they have a bad reputation?

nath981

I don't know, but I would have it load tested. Who put the initial charge on the battery? This can be critical. Like i said above, I had the same issue, and 2 batteries and 2 R/Rs later it was resolved. PIA

Chemtooler

I did the set-up and charge on the megaboost the cycle gear did the set-up on the duraboost.
I added the acid and let it vent for 30min. then sealed it and charged it overnight at 1.5 amps/hour. With my charger.

nath981

sounds right to me. if memory serves me right, I pushed the acid container onto the top of the battery allowing the acid to trickle into the battery. let it sit for several hours and, with the acid container still on top, hooked up the Battery Minder and let it do its thing til it went on maintenance, maybe a day? then let it sit for a while, removed the filler container and pressed on the permanent cap strip an then installed. According to an electrically savvy forum member, you're supposed to hook the ground up first while isolating the pos terminal to prevent it shorting on something and hook it up last.

I don't know, but you have to eliminate the obvious by not assuming the battery is okay by having it load tested, esp since it appears to be weak after running. You checked the stator. If it's okay, then I would try a new R/R to see if it worked correctly. As far as I can tell you, that's all there is barring some mystery drain which you already checked. I'm sure if you took it to a Honda shop, they would be able to diagnose the problem, but according to a local Honda Shop employee, they often experiment similarly?

lazn

Load test of the battery is next.. you can take it to Autozone if needed to get that done for free.

revhead1957

You say the bike won't turn over after a short trip after the battery has been charged.
Have you checked to make sure the problem is not in the starting circuit? e.g. check solenoid, cable connection on the front of the starter motor, starter motor itself.
The odds of 2 new batteries being DOA is small.

Chemtooler

While I am still working to sort out the battery problem, I found a new problem. Gas in the oil. I took the tank off and petcock flows fuel without a vacuum. So I just ordered the petcock rebuild kit.
I am going to keep parked until I get the oil changed out and the petcock fixed.
Then I will see about the battery/starting problems.
Oh the joys of owning an older motorcycle.

lazn

You also have a stuck float if you are getting gas in your oil.. Since the floats will stop the the gas in the carbs if they are working..

Also Rev might be right, a bad connection at the starter will do the same as a bad connection at the battery for starting.