Adjusting Manual CCT's
01-28-2010, 09:43 AM
#1
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Adjusting Manual CCT's
So, as many of you know, my bike is very close to running perfect. I do have (however), what I think is an unusually noisy front head. What I want to know is, can I adjust my CCT's while the bike is not running? Is there different tension at different times of the revolution? Can/should it be adjusted while the bike is running? I haven't even checked it as to finger tight or where it is now. I'm just not sure what to do. I do know I'm not taking it to that shop to ask! Before anyone points to 20 other posts or tells me "SEARCH" I have read most of them and they really only address install, not adjustment. At least the one's I've seen.
01-28-2010, 10:16 AM
#2
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Well I just did it not running to finger tight plus 1/4 turn.. Wasn't noisy at all. (in fact far quieter than the auto CCTs were)
The reason they say to do it running is that depending on where in the stroke the engine is the tension on the chain will be different (spring pressure on the lobes of the cams and what direction the cams are pointing) so by doing it while running you will eliminate this variable. I just did it at TDC compression, and also eliminated that variable.
The reason they say to do it running is that depending on where in the stroke the engine is the tension on the chain will be different (spring pressure on the lobes of the cams and what direction the cams are pointing) so by doing it while running you will eliminate this variable. I just did it at TDC compression, and also eliminated that variable.
01-28-2010, 11:59 AM
#3
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So, as many of you know, my bike is very close to running perfect. I do have (however), what I think is an unusually noisy front head. What I want to know is, can I adjust my CCT's while the bike is not running? Is there different tension at different times of the revolution? Can/should it be adjusted while the bike is running? I haven't even checked it as to finger tight or where it is now. I'm just not sure what to do. I do know I'm not taking it to that shop to ask! Before anyone points to 20 other posts or tells me "SEARCH" I have read most of them and they really only address install, not adjustment. At least the one's I've seen.
And to answer the questions... No, you can not adjust the CCT's with the engine not running... As lazn said, the pressure is different in every part of the stroke... You make the basic adjustment in TDC, then tune it while running... Yours are already setup to basic level and running...
The only way to adjust them is to listen to them... Get the engine up to operating temperature, then kill it shortly and loosen the locknut... Start the engine and make small, small adjustments both ways and at the point where there is less noise you lock it in place and it's done... Repeat for the other CCT if neccesarry... Note that it will make a little noise when the engine is started cold... That's normal...
01-28-2010, 02:39 PM
#5
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Ok, I don't know if the shop put some locktite or something on the nut but I can't move the nut independantly from the bolt with my fingers. I can barely move it independantly with some plyers (I don't have a 16mm wrench :/) and even so, I'd be worried about going to tight. It is the front cylinder so it is kind of a pain to get to in the first place. Any advise other than, go buy a 16mm wrench and break em apart so it moves independantly? It seems really hard to do anything on the front with my fingers, I can barely get em in there!
01-28-2010, 03:45 PM
#8
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The lock nut is 14 mil. the bolt (nut attached to bolt at top) is 16 mil. Anyway, I'm a bit skiddish to change it too much. I changed it a bit but no sound difference.
01-28-2010, 07:25 PM
#9
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It might be that the valves need shimming.. I know yours is a very low mileage motor, but it could have been shimmed wrong from the factory, or when reassembled post kaboom. (though wasn't that the other one)
Or it may just be a noisy motor signifying nothing.. Without another to compare it to it's hard to know.
Or it may just be a noisy motor signifying nothing.. Without another to compare it to it's hard to know.
01-28-2010, 10:39 PM
#10
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I'm hoping to meet up with another guy from this forum that lives near me this weekend. I want to compare sounds. To answer your question "though wasn't that the other one", No, it was the front one!
Last edited by ranchomice; 01-28-2010 at 11:09 PM.
01-30-2010, 04:13 PM
#11
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So, I made the adjustment with no change at all. I got the bike warm, turned it off, loosened the locknut, fired the bike and made small adjustments both ways. At the point where I was at a full turn (tighter) and started to feel tension on the wrench I backed off. I'm scared to go to tight! Loosening did nothing either so I placed it close to where it was originally. How much of an adjustment (for those who've done it) should it be? 1/4 turn, half turn, one and a half turn? Maybe I'm just not used to a noisy twin but, to me, directly over the tank while riding, I hear, in time with the revs, a tick or light knock almost like a car sounds with an exhaust leak. Hopefully I get to meet up with mhaisten tomorrow and get an idea what it should sound like.
01-30-2010, 06:08 PM
#15
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I had originally done a good finger tight. Noticed the drop in idle and sounded a lot quieter. I was concerned about the drop, so I loosened the lock nuts. When the idle reached the same as before the installation, I didn't like the noise. I retightened by ear and rpm. Final position was probably about a half turn in from finger tight (as tight as can be done with your finger tips). I also had checked the tension on the rear chain before removing tensioner and the final was slightly more than with stock tensioners.
01-30-2010, 06:29 PM
#16
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Just a thought Ranch-o, but you did find the diaphragm installed incorrectly,yes? Well, there is another "noise" associated with the hawk, clacking slides, the long timers on here have mentioned it several times, and when I cleaned my carbs, I was able to tell that I didn't have something just right when I manually operated the slides, one closed faster/snappier than the other, like a screen door with a properly set closer, set it wrong and the door "slams" closed or bounces 2-3 times and then doesn't fully catch, set it right and it closes smartly and catches cleanly, Follow? Easy enough to do a sanity check on if ya know what I mean.. like I say, just a thought.
01-31-2010, 05:39 AM
#18
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My experience FWIW.
My front cam chain started rattling before I had 5k miles on the bike. Not noticeable at idle or acceleration, but I'd hear it at steady rate cruising and louder when I backed off the throttle.
Installed the rear manual, adjusted finger tight and it was fine.
Did the same with the front and it rattled like all hell at idle.
Adjusted it in with engine running until the noise went away, but remember, I didn't have noise at idle with the OEMs.
Went for a ride and had the same rattle at cruise and backed off throttle.
I started cranking it in about a 1/8 turn at a time then going for a ride until the rattle was gone. Had to go for quite a few rides. I think I ended up with a good three quarters turn past finger tight.
Seems to be different for each bike and in my case each cylinder. I don't know why.
Another thing;
A full 360 degree turn on shaft only moves it a tenth of an inch, so if yours needs a bit more past finger tight I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
One more another thing;
In my experience, the carb slides clackin' don't sound anything like the cam chain slappin'.
My front cam chain started rattling before I had 5k miles on the bike. Not noticeable at idle or acceleration, but I'd hear it at steady rate cruising and louder when I backed off the throttle.
Installed the rear manual, adjusted finger tight and it was fine.
Did the same with the front and it rattled like all hell at idle.
Adjusted it in with engine running until the noise went away, but remember, I didn't have noise at idle with the OEMs.
Went for a ride and had the same rattle at cruise and backed off throttle.
I started cranking it in about a 1/8 turn at a time then going for a ride until the rattle was gone. Had to go for quite a few rides. I think I ended up with a good three quarters turn past finger tight.
Seems to be different for each bike and in my case each cylinder. I don't know why.
Another thing;
A full 360 degree turn on shaft only moves it a tenth of an inch, so if yours needs a bit more past finger tight I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
One more another thing;
In my experience, the carb slides clackin' don't sound anything like the cam chain slappin'.
01-31-2010, 05:52 AM
#19
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RK1, agreed... They sound nothing alike... But since I haven't listened to the bike and rancho isn't sure what noise it is... well...
The only real way to be sure... carbs make noise at idle, but you won't hear them while running... CCT's will like you said make the most noise when you let off the throttle...
The only real way to be sure... carbs make noise at idle, but you won't hear them while running... CCT's will like you said make the most noise when you let off the throttle...
01-31-2010, 08:34 AM
#20
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Ranchomice,
I have the same ticking that shows up after she warms up. Its like a tick that pulsates slightly. Swapped the ccts and still around. Going to do the valves and see what that does. Maybe i need to go back to the front cct and tighten more. Its all part of loving this bike though for me. Crawling around it,tearing it down looking for that one elusive little noise,cussing at her when you screw something up or it just isnt quite right. Then you get get out on the road and you cant imagine life without that throttle in your hand... But anyway, I rode all summer with that tick and no problems yet. I still want to track it down though. If you figure something out let us know.
I have the same ticking that shows up after she warms up. Its like a tick that pulsates slightly. Swapped the ccts and still around. Going to do the valves and see what that does. Maybe i need to go back to the front cct and tighten more. Its all part of loving this bike though for me. Crawling around it,tearing it down looking for that one elusive little noise,cussing at her when you screw something up or it just isnt quite right. Then you get get out on the road and you cant imagine life without that throttle in your hand... But anyway, I rode all summer with that tick and no problems yet. I still want to track it down though. If you figure something out let us know.
01-31-2010, 04:07 PM
#21
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So, I met with mhaisten today and discovered what a superhawk should sound like. Mine isn't even close and I'm almost ready to give up on it. His motor makes almost zero noise other than the whine. I have 4k into it now and it's still not right. Mike from the bay area helped me out a ton and sorted out the carb issues and much more. I really don't think this is a cct issue. I think it's a valve issue or something like that. Compared to mhaistens bike, mine sound like it has a knock that follows rpm, at idle, acceleration, decel, cruising, all the freaking time! I guess I have to take it back to the shop that can't put one back together and tell them they need to make it right. I gave them a huge chunk of change and it's not right.
Last edited by ranchomice; 01-31-2010 at 04:27 PM.
01-31-2010, 05:09 PM
#22
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I have to say, it just is not right. I am no SHawk expert, but the noise is loudest when you are sitting on the bike. I heard Rancho pull into the parking lot and it got my attention right away. It sounds the same as when my Jeep gets way low on oil and the valves clatter. When we left, I knew when he pulled up behind me at a light because I could hear it. The shop that did the work has done both good and bad work in the past. There is another shop in town that put the new motor in my bike. Hopefully they can give some guidance and then he can go back and get i done right.
Get her fixed and then we can go ride.
Get her fixed and then we can go ride.
01-31-2010, 06:08 PM
#23
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you said something about exhaust leak. did you check to see if you had a leak where the header mates with exhaust port of the head...if there is one you,will deff hear the valves tic. if you don't put the exhaust on just right,and use new gaskets, you will have leaks.
02-01-2010, 02:09 AM
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02-02-2010, 02:01 PM
#28
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Rancho,
I still have the "stupid noise" after screwing with the ccts and trying different oils blah blah blah... Damp rag on the exhaust didnt do it either. Going to tear into the valves soon and see what that does. If one of us beats the other to it lets make sure and share any progress. I do have to say though that i had the noise all summer and rode like there was no tommorow all summer and into late, late fall with no mechanical failure of any kind. Still stumped bro...
I still have the "stupid noise" after screwing with the ccts and trying different oils blah blah blah... Damp rag on the exhaust didnt do it either. Going to tear into the valves soon and see what that does. If one of us beats the other to it lets make sure and share any progress. I do have to say though that i had the noise all summer and rode like there was no tommorow all summer and into late, late fall with no mechanical failure of any kind. Still stumped bro...
02-02-2010, 04:12 PM
#29
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I went to a different shop and they brought up a few things. He even mentioned the possibility of a stretching of the cam chain upon CCT failure. It sounds higher (to me) right in the valve area. He seemed to think it could be deeper in the mptpr. I'm taking it back to the original shop after confronting them on all the things I found wrong after getting it back. I'll keep in touch dshakes.
02-02-2010, 11:11 PM
#30
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I'd say it's unlikely but possible on the chain stretch... The valevs are definetly more vulnerable... It does however stretch over the miles so if the bike is high mileage it could be somewhat stretched...
