1st-2nd Gear Shift Issue/Neutral Pop
05-31-2013, 11:44 AM
#1
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3
1st-2nd Gear Shift Issue/Neutral Pop
Hey guys - I'm new to the forum and just purchased a '00 Super Hawk with 24500 miles. Wonderful riding and sounding machine, love it. I replaced the oil and filter (genuine Honda) and took it out for a ride. I noticed the 1-2 up-shift is noticeably harder/rougher than any other up-shift. If I rev out 1st gear and shift it usually engages 2nd gear just fine. However, about 10% of the time it will engage 2nd gear, then within a second later will pop into neutral, causing huge revs under power.
I'm an experienced rider, this is my 18th motorcycle and my 3rd sport bike. I've never had this problem on any previous bike. I've tried changing my shifting technique with no improvement.
I've read on this forum that this may be from bent shift fork(s). I've also read that removal of the engine is not necessary to replace the shift forks. Is this true? I've done quite a bit of wrenching and am prepared to replace the shift forks if necessary, but want to avoid removing the engine and splitting the cases if possible. Your comments and advice is appreciated.
I'm an experienced rider, this is my 18th motorcycle and my 3rd sport bike. I've never had this problem on any previous bike. I've tried changing my shifting technique with no improvement.
I've read on this forum that this may be from bent shift fork(s). I've also read that removal of the engine is not necessary to replace the shift forks. Is this true? I've done quite a bit of wrenching and am prepared to replace the shift forks if necessary, but want to avoid removing the engine and splitting the cases if possible. Your comments and advice is appreciated.
05-31-2013, 12:47 PM
#2
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 466
What oil did you replace the old fluids with? I have read on here that the SH requires the proper oil more than other bikes, like I said not from personal experience I went over the top on my oil changes and use repsol. This may be something for you to explore further.
05-31-2013, 12:55 PM
#3
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3
I used Honda GN4 10W-40 as recommended in the service manual.
05-31-2013, 02:00 PM
#4
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 506
As you've already stated, I'd suspect shift forks are worn. Check the knowledge base for the downloadable .pdf shop manual. I've never had to swap the shift forks on my hawk, so no first hand experience on my part either.
05-31-2013, 02:22 PM
#5
Administrator
MotoGP
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kempner, TX
Posts: 4,402
hmmm, I've only had one VTR engine apart.. so far from an expert on this motor....But I can not visualize replacing the shift forks without splitting the cases.. and the service manual directs the same...
There might be a way of course...but not that I can think of......
OP, if you have a link to the post, thread, write up that says it can be done.. that might help others weigh in on the feasibility...
That said.. the 1-2 shift is the hardest, most likely to result in some gear clacking of all others on this bike. It's not a smooth transmission.. IMHO... the Aftermarket Factory Pro shifter kits help.. but even then.. it's not GREAT, but it does get better.
Might try a different oil as well, just for testing.. I know I can tell by the way it shifts when I need to check my milage and need for an oil change... Try a full synthetic oil .. lots to choose from..
There might be a way of course...but not that I can think of......
OP, if you have a link to the post, thread, write up that says it can be done.. that might help others weigh in on the feasibility...
That said.. the 1-2 shift is the hardest, most likely to result in some gear clacking of all others on this bike. It's not a smooth transmission.. IMHO... the Aftermarket Factory Pro shifter kits help.. but even then.. it's not GREAT, but it does get better.
Might try a different oil as well, just for testing.. I know I can tell by the way it shifts when I need to check my milage and need for an oil change... Try a full synthetic oil .. lots to choose from..
Last edited by E.Marquez; 05-31-2013 at 02:25 PM.
05-31-2013, 02:28 PM
#6
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
I have replaced the shift forks... I'd say doing it without splitting it is highly unlikely... And even if you manage, it's probably easier and faster to split the engine anyways...
05-31-2013, 03:20 PM
#7
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Back Marker
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 156
I totally understand you, and understand that your more experienced than most...do you do this: I learned from a pro racer type guy to keep the pressure on the shifter until you let the clutch out, the gear may slide in when the clutch begins to engage. Just a thought. Maybe the previous owner did a lot of clutchless shifting?
One thing I read about when I purchased mine in 99 was the 1st and second gear clunk, and how our bikes don't like to take off the line, there's that clutch chatter that other bikes don't exhibit.
One thing I read about when I purchased mine in 99 was the 1st and second gear clunk, and how our bikes don't like to take off the line, there's that clutch chatter that other bikes don't exhibit.
06-09-2013, 06:23 AM
#9
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 972
Another thing that helps, and this has applied to every bike I've owned (hydro or cable actuated), is give the clutch lever a strong extra quick squeeze. Also keep an eye on what rpm it likes to shift at and stay with that.
05-15-2014, 02:34 PM
#11
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Squid
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin
Posts: 48
I'm having the same issue right now on my 2000 with 30k miles. Going from 1st to 2nd is becoming a bigger and bigger pain in the *ss quite rapidly. It seems to get worse when the bike warms up. Most of the time it just wont even go to 2nd gear, its not that its slipping out of gear once it gets in. At least half of the time the 1st to second just results in a nasty chatter sound and neutral. Need to do some more city riding where I'll need that shift more but my last trip was really frustrating at every stop. Oil will be changed sometime in the next couple of weeks but it feels way to stubborn to just be that...
05-15-2014, 03:59 PM
#13
Amateur Hour, Every Hour
Squid
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 95
I put in Mobil 1 10W-40 4t and it definitely helped, but it is still a beastly toe-up to 2nd. For me it's worse the higher RPM and I've started to shift from 1st to 2nd around 3600 RPM while keeping throttle rock solid (don't let off at all when you pull clutch).
What he said
I drained & bled the clutch with new Lucas DOT 4 and there was an improvement, not major, but the lever feels smoother and the shifts are a touch gentler.
What he said
I drained & bled the clutch with new Lucas DOT 4 and there was an improvement, not major, but the lever feels smoother and the shifts are a touch gentler.
Last edited by TboneNast; 05-15-2014 at 04:04 PM.
05-15-2014, 04:17 PM
#14
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Squid
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin
Posts: 48
I've only had the bike for a month so that's something I have yet to do, not sure if the PO had done anything like that. I'll probably do that all in one go then, oil and clutch. Might need to fidget with the aftermarket rearset too a bit, feels sloppy and pulls pretty far down to 1 and all the ups as well...
Thanks for the quick replies fellas
Thanks for the quick replies fellas
05-15-2014, 04:28 PM
#15
Amateur Hour, Every Hour
Squid
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 95
P.S. When you drain clutch res all the way and refill, make sure to slowly pump-prime the clutch lever at least 10 times before opening the bleed valve even if you have a bleeder gun/kit. Also, on my bike the clutch bleeder needed to be opened a full half turn before it was effective. Don't just crack it.
P.P.S. Go Pack Go!
P.P.S. Go Pack Go!
Last edited by TboneNast; 05-15-2014 at 04:31 PM.
05-28-2014, 06:05 PM
#16
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 134
Thielb the rear sets prob do need some adjusting yet to get your gear shifts smoothed out. Like I told you I installed those over winter and only got to ride it about 30 miles before selling it so I know they need some fine tuning as is expected with those rear sets.
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