regarding helmets and the article in Motorcyclist magazine
03-21-2006, 08:19 AM
#31
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Hello. My name is Doug and I'm a recovering Arai snob.
I got my first HJC about 6 months ago. It's the flip up design (cl-max). The shield doesn't move unintentionally and the detents are, in fact, quite firm.
First impression on fit/feel after it arrived was to send it back. But I hate sending stuff back so I wore it. After about 3 good rides it broke in perfectly and felt as good as any arai/shoei I've had in the last 15 or so years. The quality of the materials is tad lower than the premium boys but not much.
On one all day ride at my last gas stop, I needed to call home with my ETA. I tried to use my cell phone with my helmet on since a) the flip up front was out of the way and b) it's so comfortable (transparent) that I kind of forgot I had it on! OK, I was tired too..... :-)
I got my first HJC about 6 months ago. It's the flip up design (cl-max). The shield doesn't move unintentionally and the detents are, in fact, quite firm.
First impression on fit/feel after it arrived was to send it back. But I hate sending stuff back so I wore it. After about 3 good rides it broke in perfectly and felt as good as any arai/shoei I've had in the last 15 or so years. The quality of the materials is tad lower than the premium boys but not much.
On one all day ride at my last gas stop, I needed to call home with my ETA. I tried to use my cell phone with my helmet on since a) the flip up front was out of the way and b) it's so comfortable (transparent) that I kind of forgot I had it on! OK, I was tired too..... :-)
03-28-2006, 05:06 PM
#33
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Squid
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Posts: 51
Re: regarding helmets and the article in Motorcyclist magazi
I'll thank this thread for making me give a second's thought to my current helmet, a 7 year old Arai Renegade. It was long overdue for replacement, and after reading this thread I researched the helmets everyone was talking about (Scorpion, etc.)
In my history, the most comfortable helmets for my head were always Shoei, and after trying one one at a bike show a couple of months ago, I was sold on the brand again.
The other helmets may be great, but on ebay I scored a new RF1000 for $279. I see no reason to save $100 and get a Scorpion when I know I'm getting one of the best designed helmets available that is light, quiet and comfortable. At the $400 price point I agree, I'd have a harder time justifying the RF but there are deals on the good stuff if you're willing to look.
A helmet is the last piece of equipment (after tires) that I'd be willing to skimp on.
In my history, the most comfortable helmets for my head were always Shoei, and after trying one one at a bike show a couple of months ago, I was sold on the brand again.
The other helmets may be great, but on ebay I scored a new RF1000 for $279. I see no reason to save $100 and get a Scorpion when I know I'm getting one of the best designed helmets available that is light, quiet and comfortable. At the $400 price point I agree, I'd have a harder time justifying the RF but there are deals on the good stuff if you're willing to look.
A helmet is the last piece of equipment (after tires) that I'd be willing to skimp on.
03-28-2006, 08:55 PM
#34
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Re: regarding helmets and the article in Motorcyclist magazi
Glad to hear you got what YOU wanted.
Trust me, I don't believe that what is "right" for one guy is necessarily "right" for the next.
I don't view the Scorpion as a skimp when it comes to helmets. If I did, I would NOT have bought it.
I tend to put a lot of stock in the Motorcyclist tests. My engineering classes have lead me to question energy transfer in very hard helmets. The Scorpion did well in the tests and that was one of the reasons I opted for that helmet.
Regardless, we ALL get to take advantage of some outstanding skid lids at a range of prices.
I hope you (or any of us!) never have to put our helmet to the test!
Trust me, I don't believe that what is "right" for one guy is necessarily "right" for the next.
I don't view the Scorpion as a skimp when it comes to helmets. If I did, I would NOT have bought it.
I tend to put a lot of stock in the Motorcyclist tests. My engineering classes have lead me to question energy transfer in very hard helmets. The Scorpion did well in the tests and that was one of the reasons I opted for that helmet.
Regardless, we ALL get to take advantage of some outstanding skid lids at a range of prices.
I hope you (or any of us!) never have to put our helmet to the test!
03-28-2006, 09:09 PM
#35
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Re: regarding helmets and the article in Motorcyclist magazi
Hijack......Brian A, where is Trussville, AL.??....I am originally from LA, Lower Alabama...lol....Foley/GulfShores area.... Sorry bout the hijack, but the dadgum pm never works......lol
03-28-2006, 09:10 PM
#36
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Re: regarding helmets and the article in Motorcyclist magazi
Oh, and I use the HJC Kast....like it a lot, very comfy, looks great, paid $129 online....DOT/Snell .......need to put a chin pad in, orhterwise it is fine.....
03-28-2006, 10:27 PM
#37
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Re: regarding helmets and the article in Motorcyclist magazi
I've spent many fun weekends in your old stomping grounds.
03-29-2006, 08:50 AM
#38
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Squid
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 51
Re: regarding helmets and the article in Motorcyclist magazi
Glad to hear you got what YOU wanted.
Trust me, I don't believe that what is "right" for one guy is necessarily "right" for the next.
I don't view the Scorpion as a skimp when it comes to helmets. If I did, I would NOT have bought it.
I tend to put a lot of stock in the Motorcyclist tests. My engineering classes have lead me to question energy transfer in very hard helmets. The Scorpion did well in the tests and that was one of the reasons I opted for that helmet.
Regardless, we ALL get to take advantage of some outstanding skid lids at a range of prices.
I hope you (or any of us!) never have to put our helmet to the test!
Trust me, I don't believe that what is "right" for one guy is necessarily "right" for the next.
I don't view the Scorpion as a skimp when it comes to helmets. If I did, I would NOT have bought it.
I tend to put a lot of stock in the Motorcyclist tests. My engineering classes have lead me to question energy transfer in very hard helmets. The Scorpion did well in the tests and that was one of the reasons I opted for that helmet.
Regardless, we ALL get to take advantage of some outstanding skid lids at a range of prices.
I hope you (or any of us!) never have to put our helmet to the test!
Agreed. In rereading my post, I shouldn't have implied that the Scorpion was inferior. I think being genetically programmed to brands from an early age led me to the Shoei as my first helmet
Ride safe,
Warren.
03-29-2006, 09:05 AM
#39
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Re: regarding helmets and the article in Motorcyclist magazi
Hey, that's cool Warren.
How's the riding in New Guinea?
Is motorcycling popular with the Aboriginal crowd?
:wink:
How's the riding in New Guinea?
Is motorcycling popular with the Aboriginal crowd?
:wink:
03-30-2006, 09:42 AM
#40
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Squid
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 51
Re: regarding helmets and the article in Motorcyclist magazi
It used to be fun but there's too much damn traffic now. Ever since the Abos were offered inexpensive credit, everone's zipping around on Duc 999s and Japanese luxury cars.
Actually, I'm in Los Angeles. I went for the most obscure flags I could find
Actually, I'm in Los Angeles. I went for the most obscure flags I could find
04-05-2006, 02:43 PM
#41
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Squid
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 64
Glad to hear you got what YOU wanted.
Trust me, I don't believe that what is "right" for one guy is necessarily "right" for the next.
I don't view the Scorpion as a skimp when it comes to helmets. If I did, I would NOT have bought it.
I tend to put a lot of stock in the Motorcyclist tests. My engineering classes have lead me to question energy transfer in very hard helmets. The Scorpion did well in the tests and that was one of the reasons I opted for that helmet.
Regardless, we ALL get to take advantage of some outstanding skid lids at a range of prices.
I hope you (or any of us!) never have to put our helmet to the test!
Trust me, I don't believe that what is "right" for one guy is necessarily "right" for the next.
I don't view the Scorpion as a skimp when it comes to helmets. If I did, I would NOT have bought it.
I tend to put a lot of stock in the Motorcyclist tests. My engineering classes have lead me to question energy transfer in very hard helmets. The Scorpion did well in the tests and that was one of the reasons I opted for that helmet.
Regardless, we ALL get to take advantage of some outstanding skid lids at a range of prices.
I hope you (or any of us!) never have to put our helmet to the test!
FWIW, I just replaced my Arai Signet GT with a Shoei TZ-R. I tried the Z1R that did the best in the mag testing, and it surprisingly fit. Still, it felt like a $79 helmet.
I was very upset when Arai did the no mail order thing. That immediately meant that I would have to pay MSRP. Ummm... no thanks. I tried the Shoei TZ-R, and it fit like a glove. I was able to get it for just over $200 at work, which made my wallet happy. It's wonderfully comfortable, and I'm confident regarding the safety it offers. The Motorcyclist article did make me really think hard about my helmet purchase.
Jeff
redsuperhawk
04-05-2006, 04:31 PM
#42
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Depends on the model, the cheaper Scorpion was actually better than the more expensive Scorpion. Since Shoei didn't send helmets how do you know they're any better? I have a KBC who didn't participate either so your guess is as good as mine. I still not 100% sold on the article's test but the KBC passes the dot snell and euro standards which is why I liked it. Not a lot of helmets pass all of those.
04-05-2006, 04:55 PM
#43
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Laurel, MD
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In the simplist terms, if Motorcyclist's assumptions were correct, most anyone wearing a Snell helmet and crashing between 35 and 50 mph would be dead. The real world data simply doesn't support the assumptions on which they based their hypothesis.
Most of you guys are too young to remember when helmets didn't work. It was obvious.
Most of you guys are too young to remember when helmets didn't work. It was obvious.
04-05-2006, 05:04 PM
#44
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Squid
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 64
Depends on the model, the cheaper Scorpion was actually better than the more expensive Scorpion. Since Shoei didn't send helmets how do you know they're any better? I have a KBC who didn't participate either so your guess is as good as mine. I still not 100% sold on the article's test but the KBC passes the dot snell and euro standards which is why I liked it. Not a lot of helmets pass all of those.
Also, FWIW, when I had my one major get off, I was wearing a Shoei RF200. I'd like to think that my brain is still normal after it.
Jeff
redsuperhawk
04-05-2006, 05:38 PM
#45
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[quote="redsuperhawk";p="19910"]
The Shoei fit beautifully and that's why I went with it.
04-05-2006, 07:43 PM
#47
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Re: regarding helmets and the article in Motorcyclist magazi
Basically, after all of my thoughts about the article, I decided to plain and simply go with what fit my head the best. Yes, I have no idea how the Shoei would have fared in the MC tests. I'm ok with that.
My whole process was, once Arai no longer would sell mail order, I wasn't buying an Arai. I know fit is of supreme importance, and that's why they don't sell mail order. But I would go to the IMS show just about every year and get fitted by Bruce Porter, the rep who handles all of the racers helmets.
Another large factor in my buying a Shoei is that we sell them where I work. (I'm part of the web dev team at Dennis Kirk.) That said, if we didn't sell a single helmet that fit me properly, I wouldn't have bought a helmet from there. It also didn't hurt that I was able to get it for $240 including a dark shield.
In a nutshell, what the Motorcyclist article did for me was to think about my helmet purchase more than normal. That, and it gave me the realization that the cheaper DOT only helmets just might be a decent lid. It got me to at least try on a Z1R, and not think that all helmets besides Arai and Shoei are pieces of junk.
Jeff
redsuperhawk
My whole process was, once Arai no longer would sell mail order, I wasn't buying an Arai. I know fit is of supreme importance, and that's why they don't sell mail order. But I would go to the IMS show just about every year and get fitted by Bruce Porter, the rep who handles all of the racers helmets.
Another large factor in my buying a Shoei is that we sell them where I work. (I'm part of the web dev team at Dennis Kirk.) That said, if we didn't sell a single helmet that fit me properly, I wouldn't have bought a helmet from there. It also didn't hurt that I was able to get it for $240 including a dark shield.
In a nutshell, what the Motorcyclist article did for me was to think about my helmet purchase more than normal. That, and it gave me the realization that the cheaper DOT only helmets just might be a decent lid. It got me to at least try on a Z1R, and not think that all helmets besides Arai and Shoei are pieces of junk.
Jeff
redsuperhawk
04-05-2006, 08:00 PM
#48
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I think it sucks Arai doesn't allow mail order. I don't know about the rest of you but I always try stuff on somewhere first and then get it online, unless the local guy is close on price.
It's hard to refuse a good deal, but like I said I was just being the devil's advocate.
04-05-2006, 08:17 PM
#49
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Re: regarding helmets and the article in Motorcyclist magazi
I just went back and re-read the article. Funny how folk's opinions and perspectives differ.
I really LIKE their tests, as they seemed to apply a more "real world" approach and less of a pure "laboratory" approach.
In case someone has yet to see it:
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/hatz/
I spent last weekend riding and absolutely LOVE the Scorpion EXO 400.
Best helmet I have ever owned. Comfort, for my head, is outstanding.
I continue to hope I never put it to the ultimate test!
I really LIKE their tests, as they seemed to apply a more "real world" approach and less of a pure "laboratory" approach.
In case someone has yet to see it:
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/hatz/
I spent last weekend riding and absolutely LOVE the Scorpion EXO 400.
Best helmet I have ever owned. Comfort, for my head, is outstanding.
I continue to hope I never put it to the ultimate test!
04-06-2006, 06:17 AM
#50
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Squid
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That's cool, I like to do that too!
At the very least, everyone here has to admit that the Motorcyclist tests provided a start for a very interesting discussion. Just about every motorcyclist I've talked to in person or on forums like this know about that article.
At the very least, everyone here has to admit that the Motorcyclist tests provided a start for a very interesting discussion. Just about every motorcyclist I've talked to in person or on forums like this know about that article.
07-15-2006, 12:45 AM
#52
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Squid
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13
After reading through all the previous replies I just had to laugh a little (not at anyone imparticular though). Simply put, I've never put much thought into buying a helmet other than how it fits me and how comfortable it is. DOT? Snell? I could care less.
Now with that said, I do have 2 cents to share on the controvercial subject though Its not motorcycle related. WIth the war in Iraq the military has learned that the suspension system in 98% of their helmets is insufficient, resulting is a very high rate of concussions when a soldier takes a hit to the head (debris, not a bullet). Most of these helmets are of a Kevlar/polymer mix and have a rather hard exterior shell due to the overall thickness. The old "web" style liner (similar to the WWII to Viet Nam era steel pots) just doesn't offer the protection needed (duh!).
The military is now in the process of upgrading their helmets to a newer style suspension system that includes substancial padding and bolstering to better protect the soldiers from concussions.
So where am I going with this? Simply put, the interior design of the helmet IMO will play a much more significant role in protecting you than the shell ever will. I have never seen a SNELL or DOT approved shell fracture under "normal use", so the material or harness to me is of little consequence. However, the interiors ability to cushon the blow and slow down the motion of your head inside it is critical to prevent head traumas.
Now with that said, I do have 2 cents to share on the controvercial subject though Its not motorcycle related. WIth the war in Iraq the military has learned that the suspension system in 98% of their helmets is insufficient, resulting is a very high rate of concussions when a soldier takes a hit to the head (debris, not a bullet). Most of these helmets are of a Kevlar/polymer mix and have a rather hard exterior shell due to the overall thickness. The old "web" style liner (similar to the WWII to Viet Nam era steel pots) just doesn't offer the protection needed (duh!).
The military is now in the process of upgrading their helmets to a newer style suspension system that includes substancial padding and bolstering to better protect the soldiers from concussions.
So where am I going with this? Simply put, the interior design of the helmet IMO will play a much more significant role in protecting you than the shell ever will. I have never seen a SNELL or DOT approved shell fracture under "normal use", so the material or harness to me is of little consequence. However, the interiors ability to cushon the blow and slow down the motion of your head inside it is critical to prevent head traumas.
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