Bicycle Road Blocks
01-16-2011, 12:41 PM
#1
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Bicycle Road Blocks
Riding out to our favorite Sunday Morning breakfast spot (more like a road house) my wife and I encountered a group of 100 to 150 spandex clad road bicyclists on Live Oak Canyon Road...a narrow 2 lane twisting road that eventually climbs a 1/4 mile long steep hill before dropping down to Cook's Corner.
As we approached the first 10 or so riders (the rear of the group as it turns out), they were respectfully single file and staying to the right. Then we came up on a Honda Civic that was trapped behind the bulk of the group. It was a huge hoard, and they all were being slowed down by the riders in front of them riding 3, 4 and even 5 abreast as they started to climb the steep hill. One idiot was riding directly in front of the Civic's left headlight.
We had to slow down so much that I had to put a foot down at one point. I'm revving my engine (street baffles removed, so it's LOUD) and the car is honking. I finally see an opening and get around the car. Then I can hug the double yellow to pass the jerks, who are still 2, 3 and 4 abreast, blocking 1/2 to 3/4 of the lane, while peddling up the hill at 5 to 10 mph max.
We pull in at Cook's, and my wife tells me that as she went to follow me around the Civic, he started to pull out to pass as well. But my wife honked, and he pulled back in. He would have had nowhere to go anyway, since there were no gaps big enough for his car to pull back into the lane. I don't blame him for the close call, and neither did my wife. He was trapped behind them much longer than we were.
Then the topper is that when the mega gaggle (I call groups of bicyclists gaggles, since like geese they move as one) came charging down the hill to the STOP sign, they all blow through the STOP sign doing at least 20 mph.
My rant to bicyclists..."Get out of the way, or get a motor!!!"
By the way, I ride a mountain bike, and when I'm on the street I keep to the right, watch out for cars, and obey stop signs. AND I DON'T WEAR SPANDEX!
As we approached the first 10 or so riders (the rear of the group as it turns out), they were respectfully single file and staying to the right. Then we came up on a Honda Civic that was trapped behind the bulk of the group. It was a huge hoard, and they all were being slowed down by the riders in front of them riding 3, 4 and even 5 abreast as they started to climb the steep hill. One idiot was riding directly in front of the Civic's left headlight.
We had to slow down so much that I had to put a foot down at one point. I'm revving my engine (street baffles removed, so it's LOUD) and the car is honking. I finally see an opening and get around the car. Then I can hug the double yellow to pass the jerks, who are still 2, 3 and 4 abreast, blocking 1/2 to 3/4 of the lane, while peddling up the hill at 5 to 10 mph max.
We pull in at Cook's, and my wife tells me that as she went to follow me around the Civic, he started to pull out to pass as well. But my wife honked, and he pulled back in. He would have had nowhere to go anyway, since there were no gaps big enough for his car to pull back into the lane. I don't blame him for the close call, and neither did my wife. He was trapped behind them much longer than we were.
Then the topper is that when the mega gaggle (I call groups of bicyclists gaggles, since like geese they move as one) came charging down the hill to the STOP sign, they all blow through the STOP sign doing at least 20 mph.
My rant to bicyclists..."Get out of the way, or get a motor!!!"
By the way, I ride a mountain bike, and when I'm on the street I keep to the right, watch out for cars, and obey stop signs. AND I DON'T WEAR SPANDEX!
01-16-2011, 01:08 PM
#2
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Dont stereo type too much there are bad apples in every group of people and if you haven't noticed when in groups bad behavior can spread to others who would normally not behave that way in smaller groups.
Truthfully its usually a matter of respect and a lot of riders don't respect driverss much anymore, that attitude has been spurred on because the riders feel drivers don't respect them so they spread disrespect back. Someone somewhere will have to end the cycle, but honking and driving too close just to "send" a message is not the answer it only generates more conflict and incidents. I am not saying the riders are "right" riding in groups 4 or 5 across but legally they are allowed to be there just like you.
I have done a lot of training on bicycles by myself hugging as far right as is safe and have been nearly clipped many times when cars purposefully have tried to "send" a message. I was doing my best to not inconvenience anyone and that is how I was treated. It is not a rare occurrence either just about every time out on the road for any ride longer than a few miles. In big groups like you encountered most likely these riders train solo and the pent up frustration with this type of highway abuse done by some drivers builds enough that when they finally have numbers they become more aggressive. Again not saying its right but it should be treated no differently then children acting out, and since you are an adult after all and if in a car basically in a weapon no action should be taken. Just my two cents the disrespect of riders is not called for but they physically will cause you little harm other than inconvenience and offense.
Truthfully its usually a matter of respect and a lot of riders don't respect driverss much anymore, that attitude has been spurred on because the riders feel drivers don't respect them so they spread disrespect back. Someone somewhere will have to end the cycle, but honking and driving too close just to "send" a message is not the answer it only generates more conflict and incidents. I am not saying the riders are "right" riding in groups 4 or 5 across but legally they are allowed to be there just like you.
I have done a lot of training on bicycles by myself hugging as far right as is safe and have been nearly clipped many times when cars purposefully have tried to "send" a message. I was doing my best to not inconvenience anyone and that is how I was treated. It is not a rare occurrence either just about every time out on the road for any ride longer than a few miles. In big groups like you encountered most likely these riders train solo and the pent up frustration with this type of highway abuse done by some drivers builds enough that when they finally have numbers they become more aggressive. Again not saying its right but it should be treated no differently then children acting out, and since you are an adult after all and if in a car basically in a weapon no action should be taken. Just my two cents the disrespect of riders is not called for but they physically will cause you little harm other than inconvenience and offense.
01-16-2011, 02:51 PM
#3
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I am a spandex wearing cyclist and a motorcyclist as well. I sometimes ride in large groups and we try to get out of the way whenever possible (listen and you'll hear riders yelling "car back!") but when the road is winding with poor visibility we will purposely take the lane and spread out for our own safety. Drivers will often make questionable passes, sometimes downright dangerous passes. With a "hoard" blocking them they will reluctantly stay back until a safe pass can be made. If you were to go over the double yellow to pass a group of cyclists and find car coming at you in the oncoming lane before you were past the cyclists, you would drive into and very likely kill the cyclists before risking a head-on with another vehicle, every time. Cyclists aren't the only slow moving traffic to contend with (large trucks, farm equipment) but we are far and away the most vulnerable to careless driving.
I don't know what the motivation of the group you encountered was but they were probably just out enjoying the road like we all do.
I don't know what the motivation of the group you encountered was but they were probably just out enjoying the road like we all do.
Last edited by davidka; 01-16-2011 at 02:54 PM.
01-16-2011, 03:24 PM
#4
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Well, they are free too enjoy the road, they are however not free to blow through stopsigns, or block the road... Even if the purpose is to increase their own safety...
I fully understand that they are vulnerable, I'm frequently in the same position, but breaking the rules doesn't solve the problem... It just causes another one...
This summer I encountered a similar situation... In this instance the group of bike riders actually caused a near fatality, by ignoring the stopsign and forcing a car to evade them, hitting another car in the process, the passenger of which needed to be airlifted of to get surgery...
I was at that intersection in my car, and after seeing to that an abulance was on the way and others where helping that passenger, I was the one that rather forcibly put the lead cyclist in the ditch when he refused to stop about 2 miles from the location and hauled him back to have a conversation with the police officers... Not something I recommend as I got a minor fine for it, but the end result was that 5 of the bicyclists lost their licences, 2 got it suspended and some 20 of them where fined... The lead guy lost his licence and can't get it back for 24 months and he got three months in jail...
His explanation? Well, he was used to cars not sharing the road with him, so he felt like he was entitled to disregard some of the rules... That was why he disregarded the stopsign, and the 20 something group just followed... That's also why he refused to stop and talk to me once I caught up to him (by getting out of the car and trying to flag him down)... He did however choose not to hit the side of my car when I cut infront of him and nailed the brakes blocking the road completely...
The moral? Yeah, you are vurnerable on a bicycle... But that doesn't mean you can't cause incidents that get others hurt... I suggest you re-think your strategies for staying safe, and stick to the rules... Work on changing the rules instead...
Because trust me on this... I will do my utmost not to hit any bicyclist... But if the bicyclists by his own actions put me in a situation that forces me to choose him or a head on collision, well his loss... If he created the situation, he get's to partake in the effects...
I fully understand that they are vulnerable, I'm frequently in the same position, but breaking the rules doesn't solve the problem... It just causes another one...
This summer I encountered a similar situation... In this instance the group of bike riders actually caused a near fatality, by ignoring the stopsign and forcing a car to evade them, hitting another car in the process, the passenger of which needed to be airlifted of to get surgery...
I was at that intersection in my car, and after seeing to that an abulance was on the way and others where helping that passenger, I was the one that rather forcibly put the lead cyclist in the ditch when he refused to stop about 2 miles from the location and hauled him back to have a conversation with the police officers... Not something I recommend as I got a minor fine for it, but the end result was that 5 of the bicyclists lost their licences, 2 got it suspended and some 20 of them where fined... The lead guy lost his licence and can't get it back for 24 months and he got three months in jail...
His explanation? Well, he was used to cars not sharing the road with him, so he felt like he was entitled to disregard some of the rules... That was why he disregarded the stopsign, and the 20 something group just followed... That's also why he refused to stop and talk to me once I caught up to him (by getting out of the car and trying to flag him down)... He did however choose not to hit the side of my car when I cut infront of him and nailed the brakes blocking the road completely...
The moral? Yeah, you are vurnerable on a bicycle... But that doesn't mean you can't cause incidents that get others hurt... I suggest you re-think your strategies for staying safe, and stick to the rules... Work on changing the rules instead...
Because trust me on this... I will do my utmost not to hit any bicyclist... But if the bicyclists by his own actions put me in a situation that forces me to choose him or a head on collision, well his loss... If he created the situation, he get's to partake in the effects...
01-16-2011, 04:27 PM
#6
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I agree, cyclists should not blow stopsigns. Given the consequence another driver paid, I am glad to hear they were punished even though by US law, they were only responsible for a failure to stop, hardly a license suspension worthy offense (I have a buddy who totaled his car avoiding someone who blew a stop and he was not able to hold that driver responsible for anything, he was told "you should have hit him"). Had I witnessed that, as a cyclist, I would have done the same thing as you.
The rolling road block, we'll have to disagree. Breaking that rule does not create the situation I mentioned, only the driver that chooses an unsafe pass can do that. The other choice is to wait a minute or two until a safe pass can be made. If the driver chooses the former and finds themselves in a position where they have to make that choice, they will be solely responsible. Not hitting objects in your (whoever the driver is) car is a core competency that we are all held to as drivers. I should add that for my part, it's never a goal to hold up traffic, only to hold the lane until a pass that's safe for all parties can be made. I always wave/thank drivers for their patience with us.
The rolling road block, we'll have to disagree. Breaking that rule does not create the situation I mentioned, only the driver that chooses an unsafe pass can do that. The other choice is to wait a minute or two until a safe pass can be made. If the driver chooses the former and finds themselves in a position where they have to make that choice, they will be solely responsible. Not hitting objects in your (whoever the driver is) car is a core competency that we are all held to as drivers. I should add that for my part, it's never a goal to hold up traffic, only to hold the lane until a pass that's safe for all parties can be made. I always wave/thank drivers for their patience with us.
01-16-2011, 04:57 PM
#7
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Also as I mentioned earlier, the tail end of the group was riding single file and spaced out about 5 to 10 yards apart while staying to the right of the lane. I applaud them for having road courtesy. My wife, following me on her SV, even said she gave them a "thumbs up" for riding courteously. Come to think of it, they may have even been a separate group...and a far wiser one.
Last edited by VTRsurfer; 01-16-2011 at 04:59 PM.
01-16-2011, 06:07 PM
#8
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I agree, cyclists should not blow stopsigns. Given the consequence another driver paid, I am glad to hear they were punished even though by US law, they were only responsible for a failure to stop, hardly a license suspension worthy offense (I have a buddy who totaled his car avoiding someone who blew a stop and he was not able to hold that driver responsible for anything, he was told "you should have hit him"). Had I witnessed that, as a cyclist, I would have done the same thing as you.
The rolling road block, we'll have to disagree. Breaking that rule does not create the situation I mentioned, only the driver that chooses an unsafe pass can do that. The other choice is to wait a minute or two until a safe pass can be made. If the driver chooses the former and finds themselves in a position where they have to make that choice, they will be solely responsible. Not hitting objects in your (whoever the driver is) car is a core competency that we are all held to as drivers. I should add that for my part, it's never a goal to hold up traffic, only to hold the lane until a pass that's safe for all parties can be made. I always wave/thank drivers for their patience with us.
The rolling road block, we'll have to disagree. Breaking that rule does not create the situation I mentioned, only the driver that chooses an unsafe pass can do that. The other choice is to wait a minute or two until a safe pass can be made. If the driver chooses the former and finds themselves in a position where they have to make that choice, they will be solely responsible. Not hitting objects in your (whoever the driver is) car is a core competency that we are all held to as drivers. I should add that for my part, it's never a goal to hold up traffic, only to hold the lane until a pass that's safe for all parties can be made. I always wave/thank drivers for their patience with us.
Granted, blocking the lane alone doesn't create the conditions for a head on collision... But if you do it enough times, logic says that drivers will get pissed of and pass you even more aggressively, resulting in the situation you are trying to prevent... Definitely counterproductive... Especially if the view is clear like in VTRsurfers case... Like I said, there are other ways for cyclists to increase their safety, that isn't breaking any rules... That way is not the right one...
01-16-2011, 07:37 PM
#9
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I always find it interesting how when something is technically legal, it is argued that it is not wrong to do it... As others have said, the bikers were probably looking out for their own safety or just trying to get a good workout in and had no ill intentions of the motorists. But bottom line is that they were causing a great deal of inconvienence to others and seemed to have no intention of being courteous. Sure, they had the right to be there, but stopping the thought process there seems so uncompromising.
I've had my fair share of encounters with motorists disliking or even just naive of bikers. Had a riding partner clipped on his front wheel as a girl cut in front of him to pull into a gas station while we were riding a pretty good pace. He somehow stayed upright and I've never seen someone 180 so fast on a bike to chase her down. Turns out the girl didn't even know that she brushed him b/c she was on her phone. So needless to say the "bad apple" motorists didn't help his view of them.
I heard somewhere "When I'm walking, I hate vehicles, and when I'm driving, I hate pedestrians, but no matter what I'm doing, I hate cyclists."
I've had my fair share of encounters with motorists disliking or even just naive of bikers. Had a riding partner clipped on his front wheel as a girl cut in front of him to pull into a gas station while we were riding a pretty good pace. He somehow stayed upright and I've never seen someone 180 so fast on a bike to chase her down. Turns out the girl didn't even know that she brushed him b/c she was on her phone. So needless to say the "bad apple" motorists didn't help his view of them.
I heard somewhere "When I'm walking, I hate vehicles, and when I'm driving, I hate pedestrians, but no matter what I'm doing, I hate cyclists."
01-16-2011, 07:52 PM
#10
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I don't know how many times I've been walking into Trestles carrying a surfboard and had a cyclist blast by me, 1 foot away, hauling *** downhill. The path into Trestles is also the only cycling route between San Clemente and Oceanside. It's very busy with cyclists and I look over my shoulder frequently, moving to the side when a cyclist is approaching. But I've never had one blowing by me yell, as a courtesy, "on your left". It's just whoosh, and they're gone. If I had swung my board sideways, the cyclist would have gone down, and I would have a damaged surfboard.
I see a lot of arrogance and "I'm in the Tour de France" attitude with cyclists, around here anyway.
And by the way, my wife and I watch the Tour de France, and the Tour of California, every year on TV.
01-16-2011, 08:06 PM
#11
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ugh. I will start off by saying I am a cyclist- but I am a competitve cyclist- meaning I am on a pro/am race team- I race and traing year round with my team- and when we are on a training ride (20 or so of us) and we encounter a large group of freds (name for weekend warior riding groups) they are annoying as hell- they seem to have a sense of entitlement to the road and show little respect for traffic- they r the ones who give all of us a bad rap- but I will tell u this- most of those Fred riders are SCARY as all get out- the lack skills amd crash at the drop of a hat- so my bit of advice- is where as it might suck going slow - just deal with it until there is a clear road to pass on- following too closely is a bad idea because they have a strong propensity to crash- and are a bunch of nerds- be smart- if it is a road that u wouldn't pass a slow movie truck on- don't pass a slow moving group of nerds-
Cheers
Craig
Cheers
Craig
01-16-2011, 08:21 PM
#12
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I feel like that's gotta be a metaphor for something...
And yeah, I hear ya. I don't race and most of my rides are solo (so pretty much the opposite of your level of competition) but some o dem nerds are dang crazy. Full on team outfits (for people who aren't on a team) crack me up too, although the "spandex" is a must. There was a time when I thought basketball shorts was plenty but after doing anything in a chamois there is no going back. I'm not embarrassed to admit the same for the short running shorts... but that's another story
And yeah, I hear ya. I don't race and most of my rides are solo (so pretty much the opposite of your level of competition) but some o dem nerds are dang crazy. Full on team outfits (for people who aren't on a team) crack me up too, although the "spandex" is a must. There was a time when I thought basketball shorts was plenty but after doing anything in a chamois there is no going back. I'm not embarrassed to admit the same for the short running shorts... but that's another story
01-16-2011, 08:57 PM
#13
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Since I only ride a mountain bike (KHS XC 704r with SID air full suspension), I wear shorts and a long sleeve t-shirt in warm weather, and Levis and a sweatshirt in cold weather. And I always wear a helmet when doing single track. Otherwise it's a baseball cap. Hey I grew up in the '50 when we rode and crashed our bikes with no gear...What's a bicycle helmet?
My wife and I just did an night time ride around the neighborhood after the Ducks game. We wore our headlights and light colored sweatshirts (it's 66 degrees out right now). And when a car approached us from behind, we moved over towards the curb in single file. We don't have a death wish when we ride our bikes.
My wife and I just did an night time ride around the neighborhood after the Ducks game. We wore our headlights and light colored sweatshirts (it's 66 degrees out right now). And when a car approached us from behind, we moved over towards the curb in single file. We don't have a death wish when we ride our bikes.
01-21-2011, 05:36 AM
#15
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cyclist around here have attitudes, they are under the assumption that they are fast moving pedestrians. not all i have encountered are bad, however quite a few are. there are very few strait aways on our roads making passing a group hard, they don't seem to mind that they hold traffic for miles with there 8mph climbing speed. they need to learn to share the road.. i move over to let sport bikes by when in a car..
out riding with my brother on hwy 276 one day, we past a cyclist on the climb and started down the mountain, got caught behind a slow car and the cyclist caught up to us, we were both riding in the left part of the lane so to pass as soon as possible. the cyclist passed my brother and my self on the right and tried to pass the car also.. he got pissed when every one sped up and then slowed(curve) and my bother squeezed him for try the same passing technique. shot my bro a bird. then ranted about it at the cycle shot at the bottom.
out riding with my brother on hwy 276 one day, we past a cyclist on the climb and started down the mountain, got caught behind a slow car and the cyclist caught up to us, we were both riding in the left part of the lane so to pass as soon as possible. the cyclist passed my brother and my self on the right and tried to pass the car also.. he got pissed when every one sped up and then slowed(curve) and my bother squeezed him for try the same passing technique. shot my bro a bird. then ranted about it at the cycle shot at the bottom.
01-21-2011, 06:30 AM
#16
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When Snowboarding became popular snowboarders got to be unpopular with skiers for being reckless and rude. It occured to me shortly after that these guys (the snowboarders) were just jerks, and it would not have mattered if they were on snowboards or skis. I think the same thing applies here. Some of em' are just jerks.
01-21-2011, 06:55 AM
#17
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During the time I've followed and been a member of this forum, I've read threads that addressed "when was the last time you ran from the cops?", "what's the loudest pipes available?", and "aren't all Harley riders pukes?".
As an avid road bicyclist (in spandex) and motorcyclist I can sympathize with both camps. There are jerks in every profession and hobby. But it's the jerks from other tribes we can't stand. A trend of self-centered and irresponsible behavior has taken root in our culture and like a noxious weed, it's growing out of control.
As an avid road bicyclist (in spandex) and motorcyclist I can sympathize with both camps. There are jerks in every profession and hobby. But it's the jerks from other tribes we can't stand. A trend of self-centered and irresponsible behavior has taken root in our culture and like a noxious weed, it's growing out of control.
01-21-2011, 08:58 AM
#18
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At least in Arizona it is illegal to impede the flow of traffic.
So the "bicycle road block" would be illegal.
And more dangerous really.. Unless the road was literally 8 feet wide per lane all that blocking someone in like that does is **** them off. Move over and let the vehicles past.
So the "bicycle road block" would be illegal.
And more dangerous really.. Unless the road was literally 8 feet wide per lane all that blocking someone in like that does is **** them off. Move over and let the vehicles past.
01-21-2011, 09:25 AM
#19
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Earlier this week my wife and I were riding our mountain bikes around Mission Bay in San Diego. We were biking along the Bayside Boardwalk and came to the crossing at W Mission Bay Drive (4 lanes wide + bike lanes). When we got the green light there were about 6 cars coming to a stop, and one spandex clad cyclist who didn't appear to be slowing down. As I started to cross, I slowed down in front of him. He yelled "GET OUT OF MY WAY!". He then proceeded to blow the red light with 6 car drivers going, "WTF".
I should cut him some slack though. His 6 foot + frame probably isn't strong enough to start peddling from a dead stop.
Are some of these guys suffering from "roid rage" or what?
I should cut him some slack though. His 6 foot + frame probably isn't strong enough to start peddling from a dead stop.
Are some of these guys suffering from "roid rage" or what?
01-21-2011, 10:15 AM
#20
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Dont stereo type too much there are bad apples in every group of people and if you haven't noticed when in groups bad behavior can spread to others who would normally not behave that way in smaller groups.
Truthfully its usually a matter of respect and a lot of riders don't respect driverss much anymore, that attitude has been spurred on because the riders feel drivers don't respect them so they spread disrespect back. Someone somewhere will have to end the cycle, but honking and driving too close just to "send" a message is not the answer it only generates more conflict and incidents. I am not saying the riders are "right" riding in groups 4 or 5 across but legally they are allowed to be there just like you.
I have done a lot of training on bicycles by myself hugging as far right as is safe and have been nearly clipped many times when cars purposefully have tried to "send" a message. I was doing my best to not inconvenience anyone and that is how I was treated. It is not a rare occurrence either just about every time out on the road for any ride longer than a few miles. In big groups like you encountered most likely these riders train solo and the pent up frustration with this type of highway abuse done by some drivers builds enough that when they finally have numbers they become more aggressive. Again not saying its right but it should be treated no differently then children acting out, and since you are an adult after all and if in a car basically in a weapon no action should be taken. Just my two cents the disrespect of riders is not called for but they physically will cause you little harm other than inconvenience and offense.
Truthfully its usually a matter of respect and a lot of riders don't respect driverss much anymore, that attitude has been spurred on because the riders feel drivers don't respect them so they spread disrespect back. Someone somewhere will have to end the cycle, but honking and driving too close just to "send" a message is not the answer it only generates more conflict and incidents. I am not saying the riders are "right" riding in groups 4 or 5 across but legally they are allowed to be there just like you.
I have done a lot of training on bicycles by myself hugging as far right as is safe and have been nearly clipped many times when cars purposefully have tried to "send" a message. I was doing my best to not inconvenience anyone and that is how I was treated. It is not a rare occurrence either just about every time out on the road for any ride longer than a few miles. In big groups like you encountered most likely these riders train solo and the pent up frustration with this type of highway abuse done by some drivers builds enough that when they finally have numbers they become more aggressive. Again not saying its right but it should be treated no differently then children acting out, and since you are an adult after all and if in a car basically in a weapon no action should be taken. Just my two cents the disrespect of riders is not called for but they physically will cause you little harm other than inconvenience and offense.
01-21-2011, 10:29 AM
#21
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While I don't have anything against bicyclists in general, and I used to really enjoy riding a bike as a kid, I do think they cause unneeded expenses to the Government.
"In 2000, bicycle transportation was a mode that 0.89% of Phoenix commuters utilized, down from 1.12% a decade earlier."
http://www.bikesatwork.com/carfree/c...5&show_rows=25
Followed by: "The cost of installing a bike lane is approximately $3,100 to $31,000 per kilometer ($5,000 to $50,000 per mile), depending on the condition of the pavement, the need to remove and repaint the lane lines, the need to adjust signalization, and other factors." http://www.walkinginfo.org/engineeri...ay-bicycle.cfm
And for just Phoenix: "You’ll find more than 500 miles of dedicated on- and off-street bike lanes, routes and paths." http://phoenix.gov/transportation/ar...ing/index.html
So assuming the cheapest option of $5000 per mile, that was $2,500,000 (two and a half million dollars) for .89% of the population (less than 1%). Of course not all of that 500 miles was at the cheapest install, not to mention the special considerations for bicyclists on public transportation etc etc etc. Perhaps a bike road tax to even out the burden would be fair??
"In 2000, bicycle transportation was a mode that 0.89% of Phoenix commuters utilized, down from 1.12% a decade earlier."
http://www.bikesatwork.com/carfree/c...5&show_rows=25
Followed by: "The cost of installing a bike lane is approximately $3,100 to $31,000 per kilometer ($5,000 to $50,000 per mile), depending on the condition of the pavement, the need to remove and repaint the lane lines, the need to adjust signalization, and other factors." http://www.walkinginfo.org/engineeri...ay-bicycle.cfm
And for just Phoenix: "You’ll find more than 500 miles of dedicated on- and off-street bike lanes, routes and paths." http://phoenix.gov/transportation/ar...ing/index.html
So assuming the cheapest option of $5000 per mile, that was $2,500,000 (two and a half million dollars) for .89% of the population (less than 1%). Of course not all of that 500 miles was at the cheapest install, not to mention the special considerations for bicyclists on public transportation etc etc etc. Perhaps a bike road tax to even out the burden would be fair??
01-23-2011, 06:17 AM
#23
Member
Squid
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 91
!!. i ride bicycles but not on the roads anymore, unless i have to.. i believe the bicycles should have the same laws as cars and motorcycles while on the road.. i know Amish buggies do.. they have to pull to the side and let cars by when they back up traffic. why not all slow moving objects on the road?
01-24-2011, 08:14 AM
#25
Senior Member
Superstock
Superstock
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 321
So assuming the cheapest option of $5000 per mile, that was $2,500,000 (two and a half million dollars) for .89% of the population (less than 1%). Of course not all of that 500 miles was at the cheapest install, not to mention the special considerations for bicyclists on public transportation etc etc etc. Perhaps a bike road tax to even out the burden would be fair??
What percentage of Pheonix AZ's total transportation budget does $2.5m represent?
Anything that is not part of a motor way cannot be considered solely a bicycle trail but a multi-use trail for bikes, runners, walkers, skaters, etc. That starts to represent far more than the .89%.
07-13-2011, 06:16 PM
#26
99 superhawk
Superstock
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: jasper Ga.
Posts: 256
if it ain't got a motor that can do faster than 35mph then get it over period.....A very simple rule to follow if you wish to save your spandexed butt. Oh and as for the comment on the "highway use" uhmm seems to me this is the law you are not allowed on a highway if you cannot maintain min speed of 35mph (this means no exception due to the awsome hill you are climbing). Sorry but as most people out here in the real world I have very little patience for a glob of "pedelers" that hog up the road and congest traffic. I grew up when you saw a car you got out of the way it was only "common sense" that every kid knew and respected.
I will add this, if thier is to be some sort of rally (gaggle) then I think they should have some sort of permit just like a group of bikers have to have (same for same) then plan that rout in advance and have markers or something out to warn other traffic they are doing such , thus allowing other traffic to choose another rout. Not sit and tie up the road. What if there is an emergency and a car (whatever) needed to get past to get the the doctor but encounters this gaggle? most act like you don't exist let alone if you honk (they would only feel your simply annoying them). Baqck to the old ways I say "get off if you see a car or motor vehicle ".
I will add this, if thier is to be some sort of rally (gaggle) then I think they should have some sort of permit just like a group of bikers have to have (same for same) then plan that rout in advance and have markers or something out to warn other traffic they are doing such , thus allowing other traffic to choose another rout. Not sit and tie up the road. What if there is an emergency and a car (whatever) needed to get past to get the the doctor but encounters this gaggle? most act like you don't exist let alone if you honk (they would only feel your simply annoying them). Baqck to the old ways I say "get off if you see a car or motor vehicle ".
07-13-2011, 07:07 PM
#27
Umm...I'm awesome. Duh...
Squid
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: daytona beach, fl
Posts: 87
there's a bunch of those "Lance Armstrongs" around here and they are all duchbags. i ride a beach cruiser around ponce inlet on the beach and the roads that parallel it and theres tons of gaggles that ride around there. its ridiculous. i mainly just ride on the sidewalk when there is one and when not just stay closest to the right of the road i can seeing as how im in geriatric land. i had this one spandex queen dude come fly up from behind me and pass but when he passed he clipped my handlebar and sent me into a ditch. now theres no traffic around at all so it wasnt like he couldnt move over. all them ******** are self involved vain ****** who probably have a mirror on their handlebars so they can see how badass they look. i ride my beach cruiser just about everyday this time of year over the bridge and along the beach with my baggies no shirt flips and a backpack of beer and have had no problems at all with cars coming close to send a point or anything like that. so their "lashing out" theory, at least here, might not hold any water
07-13-2011, 09:03 PM
#28
Senior Member
Back Marker
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 201
They are free to enjoy the road, but they have laws that they need to follow, like staying as far to the right as practical. And, unfortunatly, the majority of riders here in SoCal seem to think that the road belongs to them, so they ride in the middle of the lane, and refuse to get out of the way.
07-14-2011, 03:16 AM
#29
Member
Squid
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: El Segundo, CA
Posts: 69
They are free to enjoy the road, but they have laws that they need to follow, like staying as far to the right as practical. And, unfortunatly, the majority of riders here in SoCal seem to think that the road belongs to them, so they ride in the middle of the lane, and refuse to get out of the way.
The only side note to this is that I came from Salt Lake City to L.A. There are a lot of road bike riders there as well and the ratio of idiots/jerks riding bicycles is a lot higher than the car driving population.
07-14-2011, 04:21 AM
#30
Retired- but not tired!
SuperBike
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,478
As an avid road bicyclist (in spandex) and motorcyclist I can sympathize with both camps. There are jerks in every profession and hobby. But it's the jerks from other tribes we can't stand. A trend of self-centered and irresponsible behavior has taken root in our culture and like a noxious weed, it's growing out of control.
I am guilty of : driving a car, riding motorcycles, bicycles (road+mountain) and inline skating on the streets. I see all forms of behavior from fellow users of each and occasionally I have made some stupid choices too, risking my own skin or someone else's unnecessarily. I am trying to act like a grown up so I stop at every stop sign, and actually wait at red lights with cars when I am on my bicycle or skates.
In my town last year a bicyclist riding alone was killed by a high school kid who reached under his dashboard when his flip-flops got caught on his brake or gas pedal. The bicycling community of course expressed all the outrage you'd expect to hear which then set off the car driving community who have witnessed behavior described in the first post here. Well when I suggested to my fellow bicyclists we own a bit of the problem of animosity/ignorance/impatience from drivers you'd have thought I shot the Pope. The vile blowback from fellow bicyclists was crazy.
We are all too caught up in self righteousness and moral indignation at what "the other guy" does. Stupid is everywhere you don't have to look too far, heck some days you can find him in the mirror... Hence there are times when a lot of us don't behave the way we'd like to be treated if the situation were reversed.
