http://www.jsonline.com/business/64352232.html

http://www.wherethepoweris.com/news_article.asp?id=1335

http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/C...p?locale=en_US

http://www.buell.com/en_us/

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/bu...uell-dead.html

http://www.answers.com/topic/harley-davidson

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufactur...otorcycle.html

In 1993 I met with Erik in his office after a tour of the plant. I was there because 49% of Buell was being bought by HD and he finally would had some money to hire some engineers. It was interesting when I asked Erik what the long term impact on his company HD would have. His responses were telling. I later interviewed with the HD man who was coming on-board. Can’t remember his name but I think he is now upstairs at HD.

Comparing the US auto industry to Buell is not quite apples and oranges but when Erik sold out completely and then stepped back as primarily head of design, the writing was on the wall.

Rotax I’m sure is surprised! Maybe they will play a factor in what becomes of their partnership, or some other Euro consortium. Kind of reverse MV Agusta. Which was my dream bike when I was a mere boy and the Count was still in charge.

 

It is sad to see them go. They are amazingly quirky and niche just like the superhawk. Most people just dont get the love of these types of bikes. I have a friend that rides one and the thing has never let him down and was always right there when we went riding. Now on the other hand. The 1125 was 6 feet wide and hard to fit into normal parking spaces.... Kinda killed the edgy cool looks for me. I had the chance to take one out on a track in the last 6 months for a demo... It was stupid quick with tons of tourqe. It was as powerful as the ducati streetfighter i had rode earlier. But after 1 lap it started cutting out.... Lap 2 it was done and rolled to the infield.... and died that slow painful death of many other buells.

 

Wow!

Well I heard a rumor about this last week but I didn't put any faith in it.

For what its worth I think that Buells have allways been the black sheep. Sportsbike style with an anchor for a motor. Great innovation, functional new ideas.

Then I saw the 1125R and my attitude changed. With the Rotax motor they couldnt go wrong. Finally a motor that fits the rest of the bike. With the faring kit it looks GOOD too!

I am saddened to see that Buell has closed its doors. I wish HD would have put more of there $ into Buell.

Saddened

 

Thanks for being honest.

So you have no problem bashing a product that you have no experience with, even if it is actually a good product?

It takes decades to remove the stink of bad products PRECISELY because people keep regurgitating crap whether it's true or not. It goes the other way with all these import brand leghumpers. Brand loyalty or disloyalty is just plain stupid.

 

I have to jump in here.

GM, FoMoCo & Chrysler can build world beaters (but they don't) but I still wouldn't buy one because of the totally negative experiences I had with American dealerships from all three brands that I had to interact with because of company leasing. Eighteen years of being lied to, cheated on with service and buck passing has left a bitter taste where pride in the USA should be.

Wave the flag if you must but GM dealers and service managers won't see me in their shop again.

"They all do that". (Then let me borrow that one over there for an hour. "NO!")
"It comes from the factory with that noise".
"Those parts are on back order". (I finally got called three months after the lease expired)
"The guy who can fix it is on vacation". (And never came back)
"Your transmission needs rebuilt". (It was actually front wheel bearings)

Our company owner and the fleet contractor were patriotic and bought American for field service and sales. Cost a fortune in down time and maintenance because of greed and incompetence at the dealer level. I finally got a stipend for a car, bought an Accord and never looked back.

There is no emotion in money. What is GM stock selling for now?

Call me an 'import leghumper' but I actually get to point B when I need to be there.

 

I am not waving any flags!!!

I'm simply saying don't knock it until you've tried it (or at least done your research.) I completely agree that you should buy the best thing for your money and conscience. Yes, it is unfortunate that the big 3 rode the wave of brand loyalty for so long, and it has finally bit them in the ***. But if people keep riding the wave of everything imported is the shiznit, they'll soon find there is nothing domestic left to purchase.

FWIW, I bought a new F150 in 2005 and loved it except for a few warranty issues that came up. But every experience at both dealerships I went to was a bad experience. It was the primary reason for me selling it 2 years later. I didn't see the point in paying for a warranty if they were unable/unwilling to repair it. (I have no experience from another brand to compare with.) Also I didn't want to be stuck 10 years from now trying to fix this unnecessarily overcomplicated crap myself (that would've applied to any brand of newer vehicle though). I "traded" it for a 1969 Chevy pickup and never looked back. I don't need or want automatic climate control and seat belt chimes and all that other b.s.

Everyone here seems sad that Buell is gone, but how many of you bought one? How many of you considered buying one before getting something else? (I didn't either.) It seems like everytime Buell comes up in the groups I ride, it's the butt of a joke, unless an actual Buell rider happens to be around, then it's all compliments. It seems like the general concensus is that "American Sportbike" was always an oxymoron. Well, it definitely is now.

 

This is perhaps one of the more accurate things I've read in a long time and I couldn't have said it better myself. THANK YOU!

 

Central - I think you and I are more similar in opinion than you think. Do I celebrate the decline of the american automotive industry? Absolutely not. Do I blindly believe the playing field is level with the all the subsidies Asian manufactures receive from their respective governments? Let alone the drag of the UAW?
There is no such thing as "fair" - only the loosers whine about that.
I have owned two fords the last, a 96 Taurus LX with the upgraded 200 V6. This car was vastly less refined than the '94 Accord that preceded it. The best thing I can say about it was it was I got it for 50% of new list coming off a 2 yr lease, it was not horrible and it lasted me the 100,000 miles of commuting miles that I needed it for. The 99 Accord that replaced it was far more refined.
I fault the engineers more than the assemblers, but then they were probably designing to a fairly low cost point - either that or they were incompetent.
I have never designed a car, but I think I could write the marketing spec of what the interior should be. Cheap switchgear, hard tactile plastics, exposed fasteners, etc. This car did not have to be crappy, but it was.
Brand loyalty? A bit - but that was learned over time. was I happy the Honda's were better? No. But I was happier with the Hondas.
I have nothing against Buell, I think their bikes looked interesting. I am sorry they are gone - but no, I never bought one either...

 

But I will also agree that the sad thing now is that after building the same goddamn stuff for years they now think they can come out with some better models and immediately turn things around. It doesn't work that way... It takes time. But the constant assumption that everything domestic is **** and everything foreign is holy gets old after awhile. My brothers brand new Acura broke down more in 4 or 5 years than my 1972 Corvette did in over 30 years and almost 300k miles. My 1990 Taurus ran like brand new with 160k miles on it and I've never had a major failure with ANY of the domestic cars my family has ever owned, and we keep **** for a long time and too many miles too. Yes I happened to get a smoking deal on a like new 10 year old Toyota and guess what? There are websites full of all the engine problems and "this should be a recall" so like I've said before these things are ALL shitboxes. It also needed a bunch of warranty work right after I got it, the shocks were shot, the EGR was bad, etc, etc...the parts also cost about 4 times as much as my Ford did. I still say if you take care and do proper maintenance on any car, especially from the last 10 years or so onward it'll last forever.

 

For those of you who haven't, read Lee Iacocca's autobiography. It's very interesting and so is he. Alot of kids don't realize while we were pouring money into rebuilding Japan and defending their country they could spend all their money on developing their auto industy.

It's still inexcusable that GM and Ford and Dodge have been around as long as they have and don't produce higher rated products. I grew up around Chevy's but I put the most faith in Ford for the future. And while I used to waive the banner at this point in my life I buy what's best for me.

 

Oh and again in the interest of fairness I can write quite an essay on the horrible service and **** ups and lies from a few simple courtesy oil changes from JM Lexus-the so called largest Lexus dealer in the world. They kept giving me more free services to apologize until I finally told them to **** off and that I'd never bring my car there again because every time it was something else. Give the car back to me with a huge gash in the door, with the plastic engine undertray HANGING off in the street. They tried to tell me the ******* car wash did it! Its BOLTED with SIX bolts into the FRAME! They were ALL gone! The other side of that is that my uncle for years owned BMW's, Jags, Mercedes, and maybe 10 years ago was up for another new car and Caddy, BMW, Mercedes, etc all treated him like **** and Lexus kissed his *** and he never owned anything else but an LS Lexus after that simply because of the way he was treated. So it goes both ways.

Yes I like to take pride in what's made here but I don't care WHERE you go you're going to find morons and idiots, whether it be at the Pontiac dealer or the Honda or the Lamborghini dealer.

 

I've got nothing against HD bikes or the guys who ride them. And I might have bouight a Buell if the 1125s came out before I bought my VTR.

I think Eric Buell is a genius who did amazing things considering that the stupid ***** who run Harley Davidson forced him to compete in the 21st century sport bike market with an engine essentially designed in the 1930s and more suited for agricultural equipment than a modern motorcycle.

What if HD had supported Buell developing or sourcing a liquid cooled motor 10 or 15 years ago instead of 25 years after every other sport bike on the planet had radiators?

 

Machines break, and sometimes for no apparent reason. So I get that comments here about how long one brand lasted one individual are really meaningless. I also do not blame the manufacturer for the occasional idiots found in a dealership. Those employees are local to an area and might even say more about the local town than about the auto mfg.
What TICKS me off was the design stupidity (from the owners perspective) of my Fords vs Hondas I owned. Yhe 96 Taurus I mentioned above - the maintenance called out changing the auto trans fluid and filter every 15000 miles. ??? Sup with that? Ok, NP I change my own oil, how hard can auto trans fluid be? Well, turns out there is no drain on the pan. Next it turns out there is about 20 tiny bolts (there were either 6mm or 8mm) holding the pan in place. Final insult? The freekin fluid level is above the pan height so when you loosen the bolts tranny fluid leaks out everywhere.
How about spark plugs? granted I only had to do it once, but that was enough to **** me off. I had to remove most of the intake manifold and associated parts to get to the back three plugs.
How about side mirrors? Hondas had folding mirrors since the 80's. Not my Taurus...
What was good about the Taurus? Mine in '96 it listed for $22k+ and yet two years later I bought it with 35k miles for $10,500. Good for me - don't know about the original owner...
I sold it for $2400 2-1/2 years later with 140k miles with a ticking starting in the valves.
I would like to buy American, but I won't pay for crap. I look for some sign of intelligence in the design.

 

That is the design standard. Why add a drain plug (extra cost and another potential leak point) when the entire pan has to come off anyways for changing the filter? If they put just a drain plug on there people would be draining the fluid and not changing the filter (and then blaming Chevy/Ford/Whoever for their transmission going out at 120K.)

That's because Japan regulations require it. U.S. doesn't. Plus the folding mirrors of the 80s looked like ***, so I'm sure consumer would have demanded the fixed mirrors here anyways until the more modern designs that look better. I've seen exported Corvettes from the 80s, they did have folding mirrors, and it looks like ***. I'm also guessing that meant no power & defrost option.

 

Design standard??? Whose friggin standard? 15000 miles??? that once a year for most folks. it is rediculous. People seem to get their oil AND FILTER changed and still have an oil drain plug.
Apparently you do have a different opinion.
I won't put up with that crap. Time proved that even the US consumer wouldn't put up with it.
Stop defending marginal designs.
Why is it that until the mid '90s EVERY american designed car had a dash designed by one person and door panels by another? Close the door and it looked stupid or worse covered a speaker. Audi fixed that in 1985 by designing dashes that mated to door panel trim. Why does US Auto design FOLLOW others? and by decades.
The Japanese only copied (initially) but at least they copied quickly and intelligently.
The domestics have STARTED to get some of thier act together over this past decade - but unfortunately it was too little too late to weather this past year.
I am an American. I would like to be proud of my countries design and manufacturing. It pisses me off that the German automotive design is the best and Japanese in number two.
I won't subsidize crap when I have a choice. Get it right and I will buy it. So will others.

 

Is your engine oil filter in the drain pan? BTW all those little bolts are used on stamped steel pans to keep the gasket compressed and prevent leaks. Try installing one at each corner and see how far you get.

Not having transmission drain plugs is what killed the American auto industry? Sheesh. As for the rest, you're just generalizing, which is exactly the problem. I wouldn't even call it that really, as generalizing implies it's generally true. I had no complaints about the door panels on any of my older American cars. The only one that doesn't match is my 69 chevy pickup, but maybe that's because the interior isn't made of molded plastic. It also isn't a thousand degrees inside like any new car after sitting in the sun so all that plastic/foam/vinyl/soundproofing soaks up the heat and takes 20 minutes of blasting the a/c to cool it down. And now finally the Prius comes with a solar-powered ventilation system for $3600 to keep the car cool while parked in the hot sun. Genius.

 

it's hard to build a good reputation but easy to build a lousy reputation. for decades japanese cars were regarded as junk. it took a long time of designing and building good cars before toyota and honda overcame this. they earned it. gm, chrysler, and ford took the easy road... guess what, i still have only had NA vehicles!

buell. this is too bad. it seems to me that bike manus have to have a bottom line to survive but they shouldn't forget all else. are they bike people, or business people, or both?

harley is a joke. they sold out with their brand on everything from beer to kids dolls. status symbols for lawyer, doctors, everyone but real bikers. the few real bikers out there on harleys should be ashamed of the situation. i wonder if they're embarrassed to think they might look like a poser themselves!

 

I heard that the 1125 is selling here in WI for half retail. Shops are trying to just get them out the door.

 

I bought one of the original tube-frame Buells new in '97. I loved to ride that S-1 everywhere as a commuter, also saw double duty as a weekend long distance ride. Not as much top end or refinement as my 'hawk, but a damn good bike nonetheless. Threw a ton of mods at it due to the ease of wrenching on the archaeic old lump of sporty motor and really enjoyed it. Kinda like riding a American hotrod interpretation of a Ducati monster. Met Erik Buell in 2000 at a Battletrax event here in Mi. and was impressed with his drive and determination in working to see his dream succeed. I am truly saddened that h/d is now abandoning sportbikes especially due to the fact that it is one of the few types of bikes that are not currently stagnating in sales numbers as cruisers are. I hope that Erik and co. find a place to land on their feet in this unstable economy.

 

long story short, automotive arguments aside, no I never bought a buell, yes I considered them but anybody who does any research will see that the buell only has 3 advantages over a hawk: weight, brakes and torque. other than that, the hawk is comperable or superior in every other way. so of course I didn't buy one. I did appreciate them, and got smoked by a rotax buell at my last trackday so they got the goods. too little too late I guess. I have family members who ride harley. I have no motive to hate them other than straight cold objectivity. and that's enough. oh and people don't always say harley's suck because that's what they were told by someone else. the reason people have been saying harley's suck for so long is because THEY HAVE SUCKED FOR SO LONG! they have always been bad. and they are still bad. bring up your acceptions to the rule if you want but that's all they are. the RULE is: harley sucks *** and probably always will. deal with it. God bless america and watch over the absolute garbage we produce.

 

You're saying they probably always will suck ***? How is that "straight cold objectivity"?

I'm guessing your family members that ride Harley's don't think they suck. But of course, they're biased, and you're not.

 

Wow this conversation just gets more and more intelligent doesn't it? Since that's the RULE please enlighten us-what exactly does a bike have to do to "suck ***?" I guess a dyna wide glide "sucks ***" because it won't turn a competitive lap time? "Sucks ***" compared to what? I worked at a Harley rental shop some years back. I never thought much of Harleys before that simply because they weren't my style and I never had much opportunity to ride them. Had a ton of fun riding them, and still love to whenever I get the chance. Sure they're different and need to be ridden a little different-they aren't sportbikes. Don't ever remember one of the bikes ever having any kind of mechanical issues besides when some fool would occasionally crash one. And swap from a Japanese cruiser and the quality and craftsmanship is just a step up on the Harley-PERIOD. They make Japanese cruisers feel "cheap." Kinda like swapping from my friend's Ducati made my Superhawk feel cheap. I'll let you in on a little secret...besides those who are a little more mature and open minded (usually those over 21 who went to college & don't post up on here asking if their superhawk will beat their buddies GSXR because they don't care), to much of the rest of the sportbike community a SUPERHAWK sucks ***. It's old, it's slow, etc, etc, blah, blah. Yet we love them because for what WE like they suit us just fine. I don't need some kid on his hayabusa to "educate" me on "how much better" his bike is because it makes 180hp. I can't stand that youtube comment mentality where what "I" like rules and everything else sucks ***. And yes I think the guys who ride Harleys who think everything else sucks are jackasses too. I won't even acknowledge your last assinine statement. I know how hip it is nowadays to knock everything that comes out of this country.

 

Actually if you read Consumer Reports you'll see that while new American cars have around twice as many reported problems as new Japanese makes do, GERMAN cars have twice as many reported problems as American cars do. I think it's safe to say the quality of the materials used is better than both American and Japanese cars, but you're paying for it. As far as "reliability" goes they're no better than anyone else. And as far as performance goes last time I checked the ZR1 and the CTS-V were about the fastest things out there around a track compared to their rivals. Still I think a new M3 exudes a build quality not to be found in a Corvette-at least in the interior, which is where most people spend most of their time. And I think the cheap feeling interiors in many American cars have gone a long way in carrying over to people's impression of the rest of the car.

 

Consumer goods are designed to wear out, and to go out of style. This keeps the consumer coming back for more.

How else would the economy function?