divingindaytona

I ran across this article this morning, I found it interesting.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Harley...11150.html?x=0



"The company reported a 7.7 percent decrease in retail motorcycle sales worldwide, including a 9.4 percent drop in the U.S."

So there sales drop but there income climbs. How does this happen? Must be all those accessories and t-shirts.

PUSHrod

Did you read the story?

The profits came from their 'Financial Services Division' and concessions from staff.

Translation: They screwed their customers with their loan interest rates and terms. And they screwed their labor force on compensation. Remember now, this was the crew that got nailed for screwing their stockholders with insider trading.

I am soooo glad I never got that tattoo.

Big ick factor in Milwaukee.

joe6pack

I agree PUSHrod, HD was once an American icon, now a symbol of everything that's wrong with American capitalism and the power of advertising. Still sort of want the small Buell Thunderbolt though, amazing they discontiunued their most innovative and attractive line of motorcycles.

calitoz

Shitty attitudes creates shitty products

7moore7

It does kind of give a weird impression of the brand when they discontinue their only innovation related product line. Buell did some pretty cool things with a small team and ancient engine.

I think the view of the brand is significantly different for many different people. It definitely has changed for me over the last couple of years, as my involvement in motorcycles has changed. I genuinely put them in the same category as, say, an F-150. Maybe not the fastest but made from American steel and very durable. Maybe had a few screw ups over the years, but in general a damn good truck and worth the extra price. I even though their true to their roots feel made them appealing because they didn't mess around with gimmicky technology to have a good product. Most people don't ride motorcycles, so this and the bad boy aura are often not disputed...

I remember watching a documentary about the V-rod and thinking that Harley was pulling out all the stops, until years later I later realized that their "innovative" technology was a decade or two old (water-cooling, anyone?). Wait, Japanese companies try to make their bikes vibrate more to feel like a Harley, while they are trying to make a smoother engine? A 1400cc motor pumps out all of 51hp? and at $7K for a used bike? These things didn't sound weird to me before, but now aren't what I'd go for. If I had $7k and no interest in learning about motorcycles, a Harley wouldn't look much different than a Yamaha. Except (still thinking in terms of F-150) it's the patriotic thing to buy...

Ok, I lied, some F-series are built in Canada, Toyotas assembled in San Antonio, and everyone's toys are made in China. I guess my whole point is that it is interesting how much perception of something dictates what it is, and how Harley is trying to feed off of that rather than actually make a product to be proud of in terms of advancement and contribution to the world of motorcycling. I would have liked to see more money thrown at Eric Buell- something their cruisers and competition would benefit from!

All you ancients probably have a much more developed vision, but I'm bored at work and my mind is on the motorcycle

autoteach

If you think that nay of this crap is made from american steel, get a clue. Talking with the scrap yards lately and the demand for their metal isnt here, its in china. China is buying the scrap, making new metal, and selling it back here. Gives you an idea of how little we make anymore.

trackdayhawk

HD threatened their employees in both Milwaukee, WI and York, PA (most people aren't aware that York is their primary assembly plant) with plant closings and relocations to other states. They were able to get huge labor cost concessions from the workers, and even bigger tax savings from WI and PA. Amazing, that a company so based on tradition, would have left Milwaukee, and chased the buck to AL, SC, TN, etc, etc.

7moore7

autoteach, I agree- they can't get even the most basic parts made with the quality control that should be part of any company with a history as long as theirs. What I was trying to get at was the difference in the perception of an All-American strength that they convey and the actual cult-like group that they are.

I was just speaking from a viewpoint that I had as late as two years ago before I knew anything about motorcycles other than the clutch was operated by the hand (clutches belong to the foot, damnit!) Don't get me wrong- I never really felt the need to belong to a group that had to tattoo their own brand on their arms in case they forgot which bike was theirs after a night of bar drinking... only to find that they all had the same one.

Maybe I should have just let joe6pack summarize my thoughts- I should really get to something I do better...

autoteach

moore, After I wrote it I realized that you might take my comment personal, but I meant it for everyone. HD, like many, is outsourcing ALOT of work. Steel in the states is coming from the states, but is made in China. It's a shame.

7moore7

Ha, no I wasn't offended, just trying to tie my discussion better to the thread. I have a tendency to not clearly finish my thoughts very well. And this is when I'm sober.

nath981

strange company: HD chose to dissolve Buell at a loss rather than selling for millions to canadians. Then gave back MV Augusta back to previous owner for a dollar after paying millions for it. How would you feel about that if you were an employee taking cuts in wages/benefits and then seeing them wasting money that should have been yours? Now they won't release patents for Buell parts/technology like they're protecting valuable secrets for some kind of progressive, high tech company at the leading edge of their industry. Weird ****!

divingindaytona

Yep I did, read the story. The comment about accessories and t-shirts was made in jest.

The money that H-D made was primarly made by threatening there workforce. They told the employees that they had to reduce their wages or H-D would fold.

If you buy into all of there marketing crap well, good for you. If you think a H-D is made in america, think again.

There was an article that I read a while ago about H-D shopping for a new place to set up shop, in India.

Oh and by the way who engineered the engine for the v-rod? Porsche was hired.

PUSHrod

Joke

Why didn't the faithful buy the V-rod?

'Cause Sears doesn't sell a metric crescent wrench with which to work on it.

FL02SupaHawk996

I like to wrench so I've always wanted to get a used little 883 Sporty and convert it to a 1200 cc torque monster, but every time I run into another a-hole HD poser it turns me off to them again. It's a shame that a few morons who own & ride Harleys act like they are God's gift and spoil it for the rest of us by being such ******...

redmanmbz

That's why I chose buy and ride the SH, still has the two jugs, more HP and a great sound.

CANADAVTR

Ya know - when I came from the UK 8 years ago to live in North America, I had a dream of owning a HD. Then I saw the association to the image and snobbery, and soon changed my mind.
After a series of road bikes I ended up with a VTR and a Buell Lightning. Then HD pulled the plug on Buell, which immediately became unsellable! But it is a great bike...so much tech in such a small package.
Now I have a Victory Vegas, big V twin, bags of grunt without the HD stigma,,,,and soooo reliable.
That said, you cannot beat the VTR for power and value..

nath981

and you're tellin us that huh? you're singing to the choir here but we don't mind. haha

On another note, how come you left the UK and how did you decide on Toronto if it's something you care to address?

VTRsurfer

I bought a "Harley tariff beater" in 1986, a CB700SC Nighthawk S in Red White and Blue, by the way.

Harley had gotten the Feds to impose a 49% tariff, beginning in 1984, on all import motorcycles of 750cc or more displacement. So the Japanese came out with 700cc models.

My Nighthawk S, with a SuperTrapp full stainless 4 into 1 system, was a kick in the *** for 5 years and 48,000 miles. It's the only I-4 I've owned.

nath981

I knew they imposed the tariff(another gov't bail-out in the faux capitalistic system), but I didn't know it was that severe-49%, wow!

Funny coincidence, in 1985 I bought a leftover red white and blue 1984 1000cc Honda Interceptor from a dealer north of Houston, but don't remember that it was that expensive. It even came with two matching red w.and bl. Bell helmets.

steener

I work for Caterpillar in Peoria, IL. All the Union boys whine about Cat moving production to right to work states or overseas. I will gladly share this article with them and ask when they will be putting their Harley's up for sale to support their Union brothers.

VTRsurfer

The Big 4 from Japan probably spread the extra cost throughout their product line, or even took a loss, as the Japanese car makers have been known to do. Plus the tariff was reduced substantially each year, and was designed to last only 5 years.

The main point is that tariff or not, I would never have bought a Harley back then. My friends and I kept saying that if Harley produced the XR750, some of us might consider buying an H-D.

Bottom line is that the Japanese just made a better product that was more reliable and more in line with what we wanted to ride. But Harley did come out with the Evolution engine during that time, which led them into the black (no pun intended) again.

And nath, wouldn't it be nice to have those gear driven cams, like in the 1000 Interceptor, in our VTR1000F's.

nath981

oh yeah! Except that they had some issues with soft cams which they replaced for nothing on mine thankfully.

and i found a pic of my 84 interceptor and a link to one of our illustrious members, JD.

http://corey.cabler.com/bike.html

CANADAVTR

Hi Nath, ...well I came to Toronto coz I had a job offer with a global power tool manufacturer (Bosch). I'd worked for them in England and the offer to come here to Canada was intruiging!
I left 4 years ago as I tired of corporate life, crap, stress and hassle...so now I work for a Canadian crowd....motorsports related. We love Canada! Great place to live and work...

nath981

right, a lot of nice people. I used to run through Canada and met quite a few Canadian truckers when i was driving. Always cherished these relationships.
Glad it worked out well for you.