Topless Airbox
08-11-2010, 07:52 AM
#1
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Location: Lithia, FL
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Topless Airbox
I'm attempting to make this age old mod work, but I'll need help from you carb tuning gurus!
particulars:
STG1 motor
billet long velocity stacks
K&N filter
no snorkel or top on airbox
no plastic heat guard around the carbs
195 front main
200 rear main
55 Slow Jets
3rd position from top for needle clip
2.25 turns out on pilots
It cranks and idles nicely but there are issues with mixture up top...
I've put just over 100 miles the fresh STG1 motor and it makes good power down low, but after 5K RPMs it seems to ramp up more slowly and stumbles at 7K RPMs. This seems to be more pronounced when motor is warmed up.
I'm guessing the mixture is just too rich after 5K RPMs and suspect it may be caused by the weak springs on the slides or mains that are just too big or both...
Thanks in advance for your help!
particulars:
STG1 motor
billet long velocity stacks
K&N filter
no snorkel or top on airbox
no plastic heat guard around the carbs
195 front main
200 rear main
55 Slow Jets
3rd position from top for needle clip
2.25 turns out on pilots
It cranks and idles nicely but there are issues with mixture up top...
I've put just over 100 miles the fresh STG1 motor and it makes good power down low, but after 5K RPMs it seems to ramp up more slowly and stumbles at 7K RPMs. This seems to be more pronounced when motor is warmed up.
I'm guessing the mixture is just too rich after 5K RPMs and suspect it may be caused by the weak springs on the slides or mains that are just too big or both...
Thanks in advance for your help!
08-11-2010, 08:27 AM
#3
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lithia, FL
Posts: 2,091
I haven't pulled the plugs yet and I was hesitant to dyno it as is, but maybe I should just to get the air/fuel mixture graph?
Last edited by FL02SupaHawk996; 08-11-2010 at 08:27 AM. Reason: spell
08-11-2010, 10:16 AM
#7
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He gave me this starting point, so I don't think I'll bother him till I get between a rock and a hard place. I'm workin on a dyno run apptmt now cuz I want to see what the mixture is doin up top.
08-11-2010, 12:20 PM
#10
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08-11-2010, 12:37 PM
#14
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08-11-2010, 12:48 PM
#15
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At this point (though you know it already, and I admire your commitment to proving for SURE it won't work well) you are in shady territory. If *I* were in your shoes, and dealing with a hand-built performance motor that adds a ton of variables into the equation, I would be wanting to know FOR SURE what my a/f was doing at all times. You are going to hit the nail on the head a lot quicker if you know where you are aiming. To that end, I would install a bung into the exhaust (if it doesn't have one already) and run a wideband O2 sensor, preferably one with data-logging capability. Dyno time is great and all, but really isn't going to simulate real world riding; you're not going to be doing WFO runs in upper gears all the time. You need to know how it is responding in regular riding conditions. With a wideband and the appropriate gauge mounted in the cockpit where you can glance at it, or again, data-log, you will know pretty quickly with less jetting changes whether you can make the modded airbox work, and not endanger your motor in the process. It's worth it weight in gold when tuning a forced induction system, but pretty valuable in general.
They aren't stupid expensive anymore either.
-R
They aren't stupid expensive anymore either.
-R
08-11-2010, 12:52 PM
#16
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At this point (though you know it already, and I admire your commitment to proving for SURE it won't work well) you are in shady territory. If *I* were in your shoes, and dealing with a hand-built performance motor that adds a ton of variables into the equation, I would be wanting to know FOR SURE what my a/f was doing at all times. You are going to hit the nail on the head a lot quicker if you know where you are aiming. To that end, I would install a bung into the exhaust (if it doesn't have one already) and run a wideband O2 sensor, preferably one with data-logging capability. Dyno time is great and all, but really isn't going to simulate real world riding; you're not going to be doing WFO runs in upper gears all the time. You need to know how it is responding in regular riding conditions. With a wideband and the appropriate gauge mounted in the cockpit where you can glance at it, or again, data-log, you will know pretty quickly with less jetting changes whether you can make the modded airbox work, and not endanger your motor in the process. It's worth it weight in gold when tuning a forced induction system, but pretty valuable in general.
They aren't stupid expensive anymore either.
-R
They aren't stupid expensive anymore either.
-R
08-11-2010, 12:55 PM
#17
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08-11-2010, 01:06 PM
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08-11-2010, 01:27 PM
#21
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08-11-2010, 01:38 PM
#22
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Yeah, but not WFO in 1st, unless you like sitting on your head. 
Again, since you seemed to miss MY point, most people don't ride around WFO. So, actually TUNING a bike rather than tuning for WFO on a dyno might be helpful, especially for somebody trying to run a modified airbox, which so far in SH history, hasn't been proven to work so well. Just trying to be helpful.
-R
Again, since you seemed to miss MY point, most people don't ride around WFO. So, actually TUNING a bike rather than tuning for WFO on a dyno might be helpful, especially for somebody trying to run a modified airbox, which so far in SH history, hasn't been proven to work so well. Just trying to be helpful.
-R
08-11-2010, 01:41 PM
#23
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Yeah, but not WFO in 1st, unless you like sitting on your head.
Again, since you seemed to miss MY point, most people don't ride around WFO. So, actually TUNING a bike rather than tuning for WFO on a dyno might be helpful, especially for somebody trying to run a modified airbox, which so far in SH history, hasn't been proven to work so well. Just trying to be helpful.
-R
Again, since you seemed to miss MY point, most people don't ride around WFO. So, actually TUNING a bike rather than tuning for WFO on a dyno might be helpful, especially for somebody trying to run a modified airbox, which so far in SH history, hasn't been proven to work so well. Just trying to be helpful.
-R
'sides anything with big jugs that are topless is a good idea if you ask me...
08-11-2010, 01:45 PM
#24
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Yeah, but not WFO in 1st, unless you like sitting on your head.
Again, since you seemed to miss MY point, most people don't ride around WFO. So, actually TUNING a bike rather than tuning for WFO on a dyno might be helpful, especially for somebody trying to run a modified airbox, which so far in SH history, hasn't been proven to work so well. Just trying to be helpful.
-R
Again, since you seemed to miss MY point, most people don't ride around WFO. So, actually TUNING a bike rather than tuning for WFO on a dyno might be helpful, especially for somebody trying to run a modified airbox, which so far in SH history, hasn't been proven to work so well. Just trying to be helpful.
-R
You didn't say anything about 1st gear until later..... I know you're still a bit miffed about the carb heat discussion (or you would be giving mikstr a hard time also, as i just agreed to his comment) but come on, you are really trying to split hairs here.
08-11-2010, 01:57 PM
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08-11-2010, 02:01 PM
#26
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Well it was a bit of humor is response to this quote:
You didn't say anything about 1st gear until later..... I know you're still a bit miffed about the carb heat discussion (or you would be giving mikstr a hard time also, as i just agreed to his comment) but come on, you are really trying to split hairs here.
You didn't say anything about 1st gear until later..... I know you're still a bit miffed about the carb heat discussion (or you would be giving mikstr a hard time also, as i just agreed to his comment) but come on, you are really trying to split hairs here.
I'm over the carb heat thing, but you're right, I've got a pretty hairy head, so there's always plenty of hairs to split.
08-11-2010, 02:11 PM
#27
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Besides a wideband is usefull... I have one... But I also have a dyno...
08-11-2010, 04:34 PM
#28
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No problem, I know what you meant, and I agree to a point... But you can tune for a lot more than WFO on a dyno if you know what you are doing... Altought the typical dyno operator is used to tuning IL4's at WFO, so you get what you pay for (at least sometimes)...
Besides a wideband is usefull... I have one... But I also have a dyno...
Besides a wideband is usefull... I have one... But I also have a dyno...
09-29-2010, 07:54 AM
#29
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Update
While waiting to get a dyno run I leaned up the mains:
running airbox lid & snorkel
190 front main
195 rear main
55 Slow Jets
3rd position from top for needle clip
2.25 turns out on pilots
Results are much better power w/o hesitation all the way to redline, but if WOT then I get a stutter around 7-8K RPM, so next mains going in will be 185&190 before the dyno run so she will make max hp&torque for the dyno run
running airbox lid & snorkel
190 front main
195 rear main
55 Slow Jets
3rd position from top for needle clip
2.25 turns out on pilots
Results are much better power w/o hesitation all the way to redline, but if WOT then I get a stutter around 7-8K RPM, so next mains going in will be 185&190 before the dyno run so she will make max hp&torque for the dyno run
