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Supercharging the VTR1000F

Old 06-07-2014, 06:45 AM
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Supercharging the VTR1000F

This is not something I'm considering doing right now, however If a person was to do this, how would this be done?

I came across a little supercharger called the Aisin AMR500 (has a large aftermarket outside the U.S.). It's a twin screw supercharger (500cc per revolution), and it's a very small package. It could just about fit inside the Superhawk's airbox. Here's some specs on the supercharger.

Considering how relatively low tech our bikes are (compared to today's bikes), this seems like it would be perfect for the Superhawk. I could see a shaft coming out the left side engine cover to turn the supercharger off the crank. I remember seeing a crazy VTR from the U.K. with a twin charged setup and I believe he used a supercharger from a BMW Mini. However, that supercharger seemed quite large and took up a lot of precious space.

I found this AMR500 being used on many motorcycles, and several of them carb'd V-Twins. Here's but one example of a home built setup:


1195 - HostingPics.net
1197 - HostingPics.net
1196 - HostingPics.net
1194 - HostingPics.net

Pretty simple setup really.


This discussion would be aiming for ~150hp reliable(?)

You would need to figure out:
-What carb to use
-Custom intake
-Mount the supercharger (where? in place of carbs & airbox?...in front of engine above air filter?)
-Fuel pump
-Fuel pressure regulator
-Pop off valve
-Custom made low compression pistons

Let's bench build a supercharged Superhawk, a SuperSuperhawk, a Super to the second Hawk

EDIT: This was a good read. I need to figure out the volume of the intake.

Last edited by CruxGNZ; 06-07-2014 at 07:05 AM. Reason: Adding info sport
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Old 06-07-2014, 09:39 AM
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You are pretty much gonna scrap the air box and will need to build a plenum but I am having a hard time wondering how you are going to mount it to begin with. If it fits under the tank than it would be simple but do they produce SCs that spin both ways or just one way, that needs to be considered first.
Gonna have to make a custom clutch cover for sure as I have an idea where the pulley will be mounted but the radiator will be in the way to run the belt. Obviously the pulley coming off the engine is easy but the diameter of it will be important.
Biggest thing is gonna be the restrictor plate as you may or may not need one and you may not figure that out after its started.


Be honest the easiest way to SC it may be to run a centrifugal SC from my point of view but that may be a challenge all in it's self as well. It will be interesting to see what you come up with.
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Old 06-07-2014, 10:06 AM
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If you are just talking hypothetically, then your best bet would be to eliminate the supercharger entirely, and get a turbo. You could fit it in a lot better, and they are just more efficient. Modern ones, turbo lag is nearly eliminated.
You would probably need to lower the CR with either pistons or some head work. A blow off valve for sure. Possibly better radiators. Maybe a bigger oil cooler as well. Carbs would have to change to some sort of blow through carb, which would involve some sort of electric fuel pump as well.
It's a lot of work really. Can get quite expensive very quickly.
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Old 06-07-2014, 11:29 AM
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Check out SAM on the TLPlanet or TLZone. Lives across the pond and hill climbed a supercharged TL1000S. He is the guy you need to talk to....proof:

The Supercharger Build
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Old 06-07-2014, 11:48 AM
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My friend bought and used an Aisan supercharger (the smaller model) on his Cannondale 440 ATV (quad). He made a custom EFI map for it.


He mounted it just in front of the engine where the battery normally goes, and welded a pulley on the flywheel. The supercharger was belt driven from the flywheel. I believe they ended up making some type of sand seal for it, by cutting the flywheel cover in half (vertically) and mounting it around the extended flywheel.


It worked, and it made a lot of power.


James
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Old 06-07-2014, 01:31 PM
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Dual mini turbo's, one for each pipe and intake. Mount em directly in front of each muffler, would look bad ***! Might get away with stock compression ratio and no worries about mechanical drive. Get 8541hawk to handle carbs.
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Old 06-07-2014, 02:08 PM
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Great ideas! I really like that TL. However, it's EFI. I want to stay away from EFI.

I was hoping to keep the supercharger install as simple as possible. I really like the simplicity of the draw-through system with the AMR500. Less parts.

I had been thinking about EFI. It's been done on the VTR, but it is a hassle. You would be better off getting yourself a Suzuki V-Twin (cheap, plentiful) with EFI, run micro-squirt 'n spark (I forget the correct MegaSquirt products) with an auto tune and be done. However, it's been done before. I really like the draw-through system with the AMR500.


While I was looking at all the stuff that this small supercharger has been integrated into, i found that people are using SMOG pumps as superchargers on small displacement engines, like single cylinder dirt bikes, lawn mowers, and shifter carts. They even have mounts to install a smog pump in front of each individual intake on a 3.0 liter straight six engine! Yeah, six small superchargers.

Oh yeah, why a supercharger for more power on the VTR? Because of the almost instant power, just like the VTR. I don't want to loose this characteristic that made me love the VTR's V-Twin engine.
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Old 06-07-2014, 02:49 PM
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In my head this is easy. SC sitting right down on the V of the motor with short manifold on to intakes. Curved inlet manifold to a down draft maybe dellorto type carb with aircleaner on top. Pumps would be easy to mount.

My guess is stock pistons ok just limit boost as the frame will only handle so much anyway. Or run 2 head gaskets.

As I said, this is all easy in my head. Then again my head aint right. Bwhahahaha
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Old 06-07-2014, 07:06 PM
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We're good on the bottom, need top end rush, turbos. Kinda hard to get with two huge pistons massive crank etc...
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Old 06-07-2014, 08:12 PM
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Superchargers are much easier to tune than turbos, and way less plumbing (no exhaust work).

I have friends that work with both turbos and superchargers. For ease, and simplicity the supercharger wins every time.

James
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Old 06-08-2014, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by thedeatons View Post
Superchargers are much easier to tune than turbos, and way less plumbing (no exhaust work).

I have friends that work with both turbos and superchargers. For ease, and simplicity the supercharger wins every time.

James
+1 on the plumbing issue and as stated efficiency is better with a turbo. Here is something that combines the two.Rotrex A/S
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Old 06-08-2014, 06:58 AM
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I put a turbo kit on my '93 Ducati 900ss. Air-cooled big twin with nothing up top. Made a huge difference. Lots of fun to ride, and neat to hear the turbo spool up. Still had the great bottom end too. Sadly the bike went down shortly after that and ended that project. But it worked veryg well and the kit just changed the carbs jets. Hadn't gotten around to the dyno yet, but in a small drag-race on to the highway, with a friend that had the same bike with lots of engine work done, his was very fast, I caught and passed him like it was a completely different bike. Crazy. I think it was boosting the power from ~70 rwhp to ~105 on very minimal boost. The only thing I didn't like about the turbo, it muffled the beautiful exhaust sound. Never sounded quite the same, even though it was only using one muffler after that. Might have got away with a straight pipe, but never got around to testing it.
PCS turbo kit. Got it second-hand.
http://www.duccutters.com/MikeLee-PCSkit.tpl#.U5RtA7-9LCT

Last edited by rz_racer_69; 06-08-2014 at 07:04 AM.
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:12 AM
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Yes, a turbo would be more plumbing, but it doesn't require welding anything onto the flywheel. On a car, it's a lot easier to do a supercharger because you can just integrate a small one into the belt drive system easily. On a bike, that doesn't exist. Plumbing is the easy part generally.
I think with two little turbos, or even just one, you wouldn't loose any low end power, and would probably gain from 2500 RPM+. So you would still have an awesome low end pull.
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Old 06-20-2014, 03:43 AM
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Just sayin.....
Attached Thumbnails Supercharging the VTR1000F-purplevtr.jpg  
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Old 06-20-2014, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by NZSpokes View Post
Just sayin.....
Looks easy enough
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by NZSpokes View Post
Just sayin.....
Wow! Now, that is a color combonation that you don't see very often.

If you zoom in, that sure looks like an AMR500. This guy/gal has done to the engine exactly what I was thinking. I want to find out what was done exactly. Specifics, SPECIFICS!

Spokes, do you have any more information on this VTR? Where did you get that picture from?


On another note, I tried asking the guys who built the Dokujya VTR (Google it) about how they went about supercharging thier bike. Haven't heard back yet. They have a few specs on the bike, but not everything.
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Old 06-21-2014, 09:06 AM
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Its from Australia,was on ebay a few years back,starting price 5k no bids
Havent seen or heard what happened to it since.
Have you tried these guys,they did one for a vfr.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPcFBgnSE7o

Last edited by erno; 06-21-2014 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 06-21-2014, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by NZSpokes View Post
Just sayin.....
that looks ferkin dangerous! i dont want a belt spinning at 9k rpm right where my knee goes. i had to play around with my frame sliders to keep my knee from hitting them. i cant imagine constantly worrying about a belt spinning at engine speed.

i really like that supercharged TL. he did a REALLY clean build. if you look through the build photos on the TL website he did A LOT!!! of work. pretty much every part of the bike had to be modified / moved to get everything to fit. but it turned out ace. if you didnt know the bike, it almost looks like its factory.

its alot easier to slap a turbo or 2 or throw a supercharger in line on a car than a bike.

i just wonder how reliable it would be. id assume you need low compression pistons maybe from another bike? or car? i dont know what compression ratio the Porsche pistons that happen to fit in our bikes give you. also what about the crank and the swingarm mount. 150 hp is ALOT more than the internals were designed for. ive heard of people snapping cranks with barley over 130hp. youd probably also need to reinforce the swingarm mount. youd need some stronger con rods im sure.

if it was me trying to get close to 150 bhp, id go the classic cams, pistons, valves, carbs, etc... route. tweetys got a pretty reliable 150ish hp engine. and no supercharger....
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Old 06-21-2014, 11:16 PM
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i cant imagine constantly worrying about a belt spinning at engine speed.
That's what a guard is for.

its alot easier to slap a turbo or 2 or throw a supercharger in line on a car than a bike
Yes, room is usually a factor on motorcycles.

i just wonder how reliable it would be
Not many people have done it. This is the fun of hot rodding something. I'd like to see how the stock engine would fair before spending money on pistons, connecting rods and quite possibly a custom crank.

if it was me trying to get close to 150 bhp, id go the classic cams, pistons, valves, carbs, etc... route. tweetys got a pretty reliable 150ish hp engine. and no supercharger....
Classic? Do you understand how expensive that is compared to a draw-through supercharged setup?

For the supercharger installation, fortunately I have the necessary skills and equipment to fabricate 95% of everything needed. So, that cuts the cost significantly. The other 5% would be the shaft that bolts (I'm assuming it can be bolted. I have to look into that) to the flywheel that would turn the supercharger.

The chassis will be getting reinforced when it comes out for powdercoating. As for the swingarm mount, reinforcement is not needed at the power level I would like to shoot for. However, it's not completely off the shelf.

I had looked into fuel injection and found that it's not as difficult as I first thought. The turbo build on this site gave me a lot of ideas. Not saying I would go that route though.

Last edited by CruxGNZ; 06-21-2014 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 06-22-2014, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by erno View Post
Its from Australia,was on ebay a few years back,starting price 5k no bids
Havent seen or heard what happened to it since.
Have you tried these guys,they did one for a vfr.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPcFBgnSE7o
Regarding the supercharged vfr...WOOOHOOOO!!!!
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Old 06-22-2014, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jerryh View Post
Regarding the supercharged vfr...WOOOHOOOO!!!!
The problem is...
The 98-01 VFR800 Supercharger Kit costs $5,495 plus shipping
and also...
Kits are currently discontinued...
There's a guy who got 180+hp out of that kit! Man that bike would be a blast
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Old 06-22-2014, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jscobey View Post
if it was me trying to get close to 150 bhp, id go the classic cams, pistons, valves, carbs, etc... route. tweetys got a pretty reliable 150ish hp engine. and no supercharger....
Stop thinking small. Do the cams, pistons etc. Then supercharge it..
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Old 06-22-2014, 12:38 PM
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by classic i mean tried and true. im shooting for around 120-125 with pistons cams some head work etc... and thats known to be very reliable.

are you gonna go for lower compression pistons or use the stockers? if you have the means and skills to do most of the work then that should be a pretty fun build. i think the end product would be pretty neat. whats the HP figure your shooting for? IIRC i think anything north of 130 and your really pushing it on the stock crank. i cant even imagine what a custom crank would cost. i know Moriwaki only made 8 strengthend cranks so theres pretty much no chance of finding one of those.

ill deffinatly keep on eye on this thread as it looks like theres gonna be some pretty cool work being done.
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Old 06-22-2014, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CruxGNZ View Post
The problem is...

and also...


There's a guy who got 180+hp out of that kit! Man that bike would be a blast
I'm not patient enough to wait and see if a vtr engine can withstand supercharging so please proceed with nitrous durability testing
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Old 06-22-2014, 02:58 PM
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I had just posted this, because supercharging the VTR was interesting to me. I didn't think I would actually do it. However, the more and more I look into this, the more I want to do it.

I would start off with the stock internals with ~5 psi. Just to get the system actually working. I was building another engine with 11.5 pistons, regrind cams and head work, but now, I may go with lower compression pistons and obviously different cams.

The biggest hurdle I forsee is the shaft that would bolt (or possibly weld) to the flywheel. The second hurdle would be machining the alternator cover to accept a bearing and seal for the shaft. Heck, you might not even need a bearing, just a seal. Won't know untill I get into it.

So, without that shaft that attaches to the flywheel that spins the supercharger, this little project can't move forward. I have my extra engine opened up right now (getting the flywheel lightened ) so I can take a bunch of measurements. Anybody have a CNC machine I can borrow? haha
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Old 06-22-2014, 05:14 PM
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I would turn up a top hat deal that would bolt to the allen bolts that hold the gears to the back of the flywheel.
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Old 06-22-2014, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by NZSpokes View Post
I would turn up a top hat deal that would bolt to the allen bolts that hold the gears to the back of the flywheel.
I guess I should have been more specific. That's what I meant by "bolting to the flywheel". I sure hope it would be concentric. Having something slightly off center at up to 9,500RPM's would be bad.

The shaft (shaped like a hat on the flywheel) would bolt to the flywheel where those allen head bolts are. It would then pass through the engine cover. Where it passes through the engine cover, it would have a bearing and a seal, or just a seal. Not sure as of yet. The shaft will protrude about 1/4" past the engine cover. At the end, there will be holes drilled and tapped to accept a pulley. Seems pretty simple, but when you don't have the right tools to make something like this, it royally sucks.

If only I had the room in my garage for a used mill
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Old 06-29-2014, 09:23 AM
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Name:  20140629_120337_zpslsfgb8fe.jpg
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Food for thought...magna charger
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