HawkRider98

I contacted solely through email and had a response in hours or same day, even on weekend. Battery is in bike and not a very good job of routing wireage(extra cable from quik disconnect and leads from EB headlight relay). Pics of quik connect are available on website. Very easy to pull/push connectors. Will update periodically

Erik S.

That article is crazy. If Hawkrider only paid $99, why does the article say "300%-400%" increase in cost?

scottiemann

You can get a Wally world battery for $30 - $40

Erik S.

Ahhh, I've never bought a Wally World battery. Yuasas run between $90-110.

HRCA#1

Geez HawkRider98, did you buy the last one. Checked website, "unavailable".

E.Marquez

And worth 1/2 of every penny you throw at it.

E.Marquez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Flash

Hawk, I'm intrested in such a battery, however, have reliabilty issues when it comes to Li type batteries. I know some other hawkers on this forum also use it, and seem to like it. I just want to know if it can live for more then two or three years in the bike, with regular maintenance obviously (keep it on charger over winter, or charged if bike sits in garage for more then three-four days).

It sounds like you know there are different lithium type batteries.
For others....
LIPO of old school radio control toys.. is a completely different deal then say lithium ferrous of a Ballistic Battery. Or Li-polymer of a A123 cell

I have had a 8 cell Li-Polymer style A123 cell battery in a bike for more than 2.5 years now.. It sat for 12 months of that time unused…. Started the bike when I got home with no external charging at all.

Wet or AGM lead batteries only last a few years with proper care in any case normally. Yes some claim to get 10 years from a lead acid battery.. and perhaps they do, but even if so, it’s not a normal mean time before failure.

You pay about the same for a Li-Poly battery in the 6 or 8 sell range as you do a quality AGM battery, from a dealer that has the ability to place it in to service properly (the only way it will have a chance to last)

BUT you get a great weight savings, as well as space savings or the ability to change the battery location. That in itself is a reason many chose a Li-Poly type battery.

Tweety

Now, the way you discribe here is a very good way to throw away good money... NO, you cannot have the RB battery survive 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 years if you keep it on a charger over winter... It'll be dead by halftime the first winter...

I cannot say this in another way, FORGET EVERYTHING YOU THINK YOU KNOW ABOUT BATTERY MAINTAINANCE, IT DOESN'T APPLY HERE... A lithium ferrite type battery does not work remotely like a SLA or GEL type battery, and treating them like one is a very good way to kill it in short order...

You do NOT charge, trickle charge or any such thing a lithium ferrite type of battery, simply because extended charging raises the internal cell resistance to the point where the battery dies in fairly short time... Any of these type of batteries needs to be charged with a fairly high current and short charge time... It's what they are made for, and what they like...

If you are going to let the bike sit in the garage for the winter, disconnect the battery, and you don't need to charge it... In spring, simply hook it up, start the bike and ride... The battery will be just as fully loaded as it was in fall...

I have been using my pack now for 4 years... I have yet to need to use a charger on it except the initial charge and various experiments, but then I'd just push start the bike, and ride around the block instead of charging it, it's much better for the bike...

One caveat here... Stick a voltmeter on you bike, not neccesarily a "bike voltmeter" a multimeter works fine and take a ride... The VTR should like all bikes charge at a steady 13.5-14.5 V at all times except low idle, just after start-up... If it doesn't start diagnosing the charging system and R/R... A barely "OK" charging system works on a SLA or GEL type battery which considers anything above 12.5V charging, but a lithium ferrite pack needs 13.5V or more...

Jack Flash

Your right Tweety. After writing my own comment, I realised that I had forgotten what you clearly mentionned...they don't like chargers, and I don't remember ever seeing a charger made for this type of battery.

It also brought me back to articles I've read on the subject a while back.

E.Marquez

Hundreds of choices for a charger / balancer

For a battery used on a bike that has a charging system,,,what you would be doing is balancing the cells in the pack.. Many feel that's a nice to do under most normal motorcycle use, not a need.

Some of the Li type aftermarket battery's sell a proprietary charger in the same line.

Like the one from Ballistic
Battery Charging - Ballistic Performance Components

Hawkrider

I have the Shorai on the 1000RR, and although I've only had it since Feb and is not long enough to evaluate lifespan, I'm very happy with its performance and it weighs about as much as a couple of D cell batteries!!

Tweety

Quite true... Just be aware that 9 out of 10 of those chargers do what I would strongly advice against, ie "TOP BALANCING" ie they balance the batteries at the top of the charge... The good thing is that you get more capacity, the bad... Well... It's really bad, since they will then be unbalanced when they reach the cut-off voltage where you aren't supposed to discharge below...

Either get one that is bottom balancing, or don't bother at all, and they will naturally balance in the middle on thier own, if you charge them in a working bike... That's a fair balance between safe and capacity... The requirement though, is that you don't run them flat, because that breaks the balance...

scottiemann

Well when your in college and broke 7 hours away from home and your only form of transportation is your SH, all you got it is hay pennies

E.Marquez

Point taken, and if it makes the SH run.. Your choosing a perfect battery for your needs.

I stand corrected

scottiemann

Now, especially for my rebuild I will be using lifepo4 cells, whether or not I buy a battery or make one is still up in the air...

Computers and electrical circuits is one of my strong hobbies.

Jack Flash

Everyone brings a valid point so far as to why they prefer Li batteries. So far, I have only seen a weight advantage, and a more maintenace free approach.

My experience with these batteries have been with the Lithium Iron Phosphate, and, the company claims about a 5 year life, or 1000 to 2000 charge cycles. In our case, we will go with the 5 year life expectancy.
Also, as Marquez and Tweety clearly illistrated previously, you need a charger that balances out these types of batteries, if you are to invest in one. Upland also left a nice article for us to read.

That being said, since the battery does not seem to offer any more advantage then the previously mentioned, in my case, it's not worth the investment.

Erik S.

Jack, you misread, Tweety does not advocate a charger, just the bike. If you insist on a charger, Tweety recommended the correct type of charger. E.Marquez provided some links.

I listen to Tweety unequivocally. The man has built and tested his own battery packs and posted the results. Ran a 4 cell in his modified Dodge (?) muscle car.

You keep saying that weight is the only advantage. Mister weighed all of his performance parts, looking to save ounces. This is 8 pounds saved for the same price do a stock battery. You don't get and cheaper power to weight savings, other than the rider going on a diet.

Tweety

Weight isn't the only advantage... It's also going to outperform any SLA or GEL battery in a cold climate... Any lead type battery is basically speced at about twice it's true usable power... It slowly drops voltage as it discharges, and unless it's a sunny and warm summerday, the battery will not crank the bike unless it's fully charged (low voltage at roughly 50% of capacity)... A LiFe type battery however only drops voltage at the cut-off at the end of discharge, and cranks until it's almost completely discharged (low voltage at 10-20% depending on exact chemistry)

Also, a LiFe pack will crank poorly the first attempt, but the high internal current actually heats the cells inside and out, so by the third or fourth rotation of the crank, the battery is up to operating temps, and will start the bike... I have successfully started my bike in freezing temps, where the lead battery would not have had a snowballs chance in hell... I actually tried it, and even despite the bike being warm from starting it on the LiFe, the cold but nominally fully charged lead battery only managed a few stutters before giving up the ghost...

Even more, if you manage to run a lead battery flat, you will need to charge it up over a couple of hours, or ride around most of that time to charge it enough that you can get going from a stop... On a LiFe, you can run the battery dead flat, pushstart the bike, or jump it, and ride around the block once or twice, and it will have enough juice already to start the bike again... The downside to that, is that it will probably need to be balanced at that point to not compromise longterm lifetime...

But, no I'm not going to agree with your last statement... You do NOT need a charger or balancer, or combination there of... You need a bike, that's it... If you balance, you need to do it the correct way... If you DON'T balance, the cells will balance themselves as long as you don't run the battery dead flat... If you do run it dead flat, and don't balance, it will still self balance all over again, but you are probably reducing lifetime a bit... And you are potentially risking a failure if you run it flat again in a short span of time, since the then unbalanced cells might reverse... But unless you honestly think you are going to run it flat twice a month, you simply don't need a charger...

I have charged mine back up roughly a dozen times, mostly after trying to kill it on purpose and once because I was dumb enough to crank the bike with the killswitch... I have yet to balance it... And it's perfectly balanced... I don't own a balancer, so if I need to balance it, I would use a multimeter and do it manually, charge and discharge each cell with a variable powersupply and load... Granted, that costs more than a good charger, but I have it lying around...

If you haven't, you can do it the easy way... Take a $10 multimeter, and a spare H4 bulb... Measure each cell, and hook the bulb to them each, bringing all of them down to around cut-off voltage, and then when they are even, charge the battery, and repeat two-three times... Balanced, the low cost way... And it's significantly better than what most $500 balancers manage...

Tweety

Actually, no... I ran an 12 cell in a Hemi Cuda a whole summer, and not the tame variation of that engine... It did however start when I tried it with both a 4 and 8 cell, but I figured it might be pushing it a little, considering the stock battery is a 50 pound lump of lead...

My bike though, has been fine on the 8 cell now for almost four years, and the first summer I mostly lugged the 8 cell around as ballast, since I used a 4 cell pack, and had the 8 cell for redundancy, if i would run that flat... It never happened but I finally figured out that 8 cells was lighter than 12 and my paranoia...

7moore7

Just keep letting the story grow... I heard it was a 2 cell in your 900hp drag car.

E.Marquez

I have not been able to get my hands on another A123 cell deal as I did most of two years ago.

I would love to build some more batteries, but truthfully, it's just cheaper to let those buying in bulk and building packs do it for me... Jamie here on this list has for sale battery's at a better price then I can build one for.

Jack Flash

You see Tweety, this is the kind of info I was looking for. Living in Canada, it gets pretty cold up here, and a good bttery, is something you need to rely on. Many times, just taking the bike out of the garage, and letting it sit for a 20-30min while I get dressed, you could see in cold weather, engine turn was not the same as on a warmer day. Which meant, I have to be sure I charge the battery on a regular bassis.

Just to correct my wording in my previous message, I said you need to purchase a charger that balances out the battery, IF YOU ARE TO INVEST IN ONE, meaning you do not have to purchase a charger, if you are to purchase this type of battery. So both you and Erik miss read my wording...

Back to the issue at hand, since you have again convinced me otherwise, 8 cells is the way to go then ?!

Tweety

Actually, the 920hp Dodge Viper ACR racecar is running an 8 cell battery... But it's not the same size cells, those are the size of redbull cans... Happy now?!...

Edited: They are roughly the same size as the stock battery, but feels almost weightless if you pick it up compared to size...

Tweety

If you plan on running heated grips or any such things, and need the overhead or just want a really bad-*** battery to crank the bike at low temps, I'd say a 12 cell battery will be just the ticket, but for normal riding, and better than average cold cranking, the 8 cell pack outperforms most if not all lead batteries... At minus 8C from plus 4C storage it was touch and go, but I really don't expect to be riding the VTR at those temps much, in this case it was a question if gingerly riding about 7 km from one winter garage to another simply because the house was being sold... I was like a popsickle when I got there, but the battery held out nicely...

Jack Flash

Anything below 5-6° is also off limits for me. Anyway, by the time the -8° weather arrives, we're no longer allowed on the road with our motorcycles. We have a winter tire law in my neck of the woods, and I don't know of any winter tires for motorcycles. Even if they were available, I would certainly not put my beautiful chicken throught that snow, and sleet hell.