uchi

damn you and your early morning replies, im not mentally ready for you at 7 am tweety, lol. so if 6th is now like 5th in theory my 6th gear will accelerate like my old 5th gear used to correct? meaning itll accelerate faster

true, if you over gear too much itll be a useless first gear. but i honestly dont think my setup makes first gear useless. i can still run it out to something like 80 kph i believe. its not like its become a 30 kph gear, i think youre loosing something like 20 kph off firsts overall top speed. again, super early here in canada and ive been on the bike once this month and wasnt paying attention to the speedo much so i cant remember the exact numbers
yes i do shift a little more but i also plop her into 4th gear in the city and cruise around in that and she doesnt feel laggy or boggy or anything.

no man its a 5 spd with a clutch thing, a shifter, think we call those a manual transmission trust me that car was fun to launch

id love for you to set my carbs up, im sure theyre still not where they need to be as the bike is finicky at times still and weve been setting them based on spark plugs. all i know is in stock form 6th gear with a a big *** downhill section of hiway the bike got close but wouldnt find the end of 6th. we even have a hiway thats just flat and open and i was in a deep tuck, elbows and knees in, and she still wouldnt go. you must know a trick or about a secret button that adds 30 hp or something. lol.

how hard are we talking about launching? out launching a stock hawk? ive always wanted to see sweden, i hear you guys have some sexy women down there

hey a little off topic, you have any info on machining that flywheel? ive been keeping my eyes open for one cause i think its something ill do in the next little bit but id prefer to have some info for the shop thats gonna do it and not just, make it lighter.

Tweety

It's friggin noon around here, you lazy bum...

Yes, it will be faster than 6'th was, but not a damned bit faster than 5'th was originally...

Yeah, 15/43 which if your sig is correct is your gearing, means that in theory you will hit redline at 85 Kph or 52 Mph... But the bottom part of that gear will be extremely bouncy, and make it easy to flip the bike... I honestly doubt you can hit redline in 1'st if you are really launching, because that would require you to baby it for a good while first... And then you would get a decidedly better launch by just shifting to second...

Hence the "?"... But yeah, 5 speed manual or 3-4 speed auto... That engine compared to a bike engine the losses from shifting high up in the box will be negligable...

How hard? Well... I consistently carry the front throught 1-4'th from a standing start, rear wheel chirping if I'm not just cruising around, and that's with 220 pounds of me fighting the bars... So far no other VTR have been close, geared, stock or not, when they tried... But I'm pretty sure there are guys that launch harder...

nath981

While i think it's good to discuss drag racing, launching from a dead stop, wheelies, etc., this is not a typical application for me and probably many others here. My earlier experiences include 1/8 mile dirt drags and 1/4 mile asphalt and a lot of street drags, but i do very little standing launches anymore.

In fact, mostly through financial necessity, the only time I would risk my clutch/other mechanical failures is immediately before I change tires, i.e., when the rear tire is shot and I do my celebratory burnout. Even this can't be considered a launch because I put a little lubricant on the rear tire to ease the burden on the clutch and drivetrain and don't usually go sliding up the street although i have at times.

If i were to consider drag racing the hawk, I would stick with 15/44 or 43 because launching is not a problem when you're not concerned with buying clutches and tires. It's more a matter of repetitively practicing launches to get the best results. IMO, 16/41 gearing would be alright if the hawk weighed 400lb and produced 160hp, but with lower hp and higher weight, I don't believe oem gearing would yield the best times for 1/4 mile drags. I know the torque factor enters into it too, so it's hard to say definitively w/o trials.

uchi

Lol tweety you forget you're bike makes 120 hp mine might make 105. I've eaten the limiter in first many times and while keeping it down. But it takes some feathering till 6-7000 rpm to hold her down and after that it winds out fast enough it runs out of gear before lifting too much. I really need a wideband dyno run cause i bet im still running a little rich. Really though i don't drag the bike much so im not worried much about first. Most of my good time starts in second

Tweety

Nath, I'm not too partial too dragracing either... But challenge me at a light on another bike, and if I know the road ahead, I'll launch it pretty hard, and take off...

uchi... I doubt the extra hp makes that much difference in your ability to keep the front down, I'm pretty sure both of us needs to feather the throttle pretty extensively not to flip it... Agreed, second gear is alot more fun... even with stock gearing...

8541Hawk

What I find funny is that you and the one other member feel it is just fine to throw these type of veiled insults along with the know it all comments and even the killer **** but if I say an idea is stupid you get all indigent and say what a bad person I am for call someone stupid.

First of all I said I felt the idea was stupid not the person (some of us understand the concept that there is a difference) and secomd how is what you have repeatedly done any different?

It seems as though you are unable to have a discussion without the need to personally attack the person that you are having the discussion with.




So then you agree that the stock gearing is lower in the first 3 gears and equivalent in the next 2. So if you have the skill set to shift from first to second efficiently, a stock geared bike would be quicker than a bike with 15\43 gearing.

Now I could detail a few easy things to get the bike to shift smoothly from 1st to 2nd but why bother. I would just be called a know it all again. So I'll keep that info to myself.

Bluesuperhawk83

Sounds like you need one of those extra long squid special swingarms and a 300mm rear tire to keep your front end down. With a weekends work, You too could look like all the other asshats around here cruising their "busas".

8541Hawk

So to cut through all the fat, what this tread says to me is that if you are unable to shift the bike between 1st and 2nd then 15\43 gearing is an acceptable compromise.

If you can reliably shift between 1st and 2nd then the stock 16\41 final drive will give you better acceleration and greater top end than the 15\43 gearing.

If you run 15\41 or 16\42,43 or 44 you will out accelerate either set up , as long as you can shift between 1st-2nd.

Tweety

I'm not sure if I should be insulted or not by that...

But, disregarding that...

I'm not sure if you are aware that I'm running a RC51 swingarm on my bike, and that makes it already some 30 mm longer than stock wheelbase... But standing more on it's nose because of the CBR 1000RR forks... Ie both more stable, and more easily flickable than stock... Making it about as far from an extended "busa" as you can get...

It's more at home diving into corners on a racetrack, outbraking the CBR's and GSXR's... Or using the torque to walk away from them on corner exit... Unfortunately they keep flying past on the long straights...

If you want to know more, click the link in my sig-line...

Bluesuperhawk83

It was meant in jest. Not insulting you. I just get tired of the idiots around here riding sport bikes with +12 swingarms and no riding skill making the rest of us look like morons. Unfortunately non sportbike riders group us all together.

Tweety

Well, I understood it was in jest... Just a bit ironic...

But, even the non sportsbike riders should be able to tell us apart without too much difficulty... One group is hugging the middle of the road, going slow enough to make gramps on his Goldwing irritated... The other, keeps blowing past in the corners at full tilt...

I can see the difference... But then again, I'm riding anything with two wheels, so I'm not biased...

uchi

true enough, im a big fan of having the bike lift on its own, hit a bump in a tuck full throttle at about 110 mph one day and she stood me straight up. none of this couple inches crap. i was seeing nothing but sky. would have made a great video to see the poop running out the back of my leathers, haha

uchi

with these bikes it isnt a question of if you can shift into second, its a question of will the bike allow you to shift into second, haha

uchi

you know if you get around to doing that stage 2 motor build you might have a chance of hanging those pesky i4 liter bikes off. maybe toss a little juice on the old girl and hold on

killer5280

Brother 8541 has the cure for that but he's holding back on the knowledge to avoid being perceived as too much of a know-it-all.

Not to mention that the gap between 1st and 2nd is much greater than the gap between the other gears.

8541Hawk

Not on mine...... it's smooth and easy

Tweety

I could give you the answer... But I won't for obvious reasons...

8541Hawk

Exactly..... it is starting to become a waste of time even bothering around here..... so I guess you guys win and I haven't know what I'm talking about from the beginning....

Once again, sorry that you don't have the skill set to be able to deal with the shift from first and second. If you have to compromise your gearing to deal with it, fine.

Maybe you should state that fact when suggesting the gearing as that would be accurate. Instead you say the low gearing has better acceleration, which just is not true.

JamieDaugherty

Ok, since this has already become lively.....

Something that is often overlooked: lower gearing only helps you in first gear. As soon as you shift into second I'm still in first and now I have the lower overall gearing.

I also don't like the idea of burning a bunch of revs just cruising along. What wears out the quickest on any motorcycle engine is the valve/valve seats. It's all a matter of revs, the higher revs you run the more damamge. I'd prefer not to be wearing out my 5-angle valve job by just going down the highway.

Tweety

I mentioned that sometime before... It was ignored then... But it's possible someone will listen now...

Old Yeller

showing your friends you can pop wheelies in more gears is far more important than how long an engine will last.

JamieDaugherty

There I go scanning again.....

uchi

how about you pm me the solution for this, i keep loosing races due to a sloppy second gear lol

uchi

i put like 5000 km a year on the bike, and an engine worn out is a reason to upgrade the engine, thats how i see it

i think we need to resolve this properly. get somoene who has an extra gear set and a speedohealer. make a video of the speedo from like 60 mph to wherever on both bikes and then put the videos side by side and see which one is actually faster.

if re gearing doesnt make the bike faster then why do people re gear?

Tweety

Well... No, not from 60... But yeah, from 25 or so, would be educational...

A. A small change does in fact mean a gain if the bike is overgeared in stock, ie going from stock 16/41 to either 15/41 or 16/43 does give an actual gain...

B. They like the feel of it...

I have no problem with option B, I have a problem with people that try to convince me that feeling thrumph's physics...

uchi

physics is wrong, math is the devils tool. there i said it, haha.

25 mph sounds good. lets find a guy with a bike and a couple sprockets

on a side note, it was chilly out tonight and the bike was just a blast in first. i rode to the gym and on the way back put on some angry riding music. bad choice. lol. the cool weather really woke the bike up and she was just airborne and felt fast as hell tonight. wish i could replicate that feeling in dead heat of the summer

nath981

I'm not that radical in terms of wrong and evil, but agree that they should be considered tools and not the final result. Physics and math are great as long as they are kept in perspective, considered part, but not the whole, of the factors that affect reality.

chilly dense air certainly does make an engine come alive, feel perfect, and makes you wonder why someone hasn't developed a practical air management
system that mimics those conditions.

nath981

like it scared the living **** right out of you! haha

Sounds like your forks bottomed out, maybe need to add a little preload, raise fork oil level and/or weight.

uchi

that was last year with the heavier race tech springs but they werent set up for my weight yet just opened all the way up. it was a dip in the road and the bike just lofted me, man scary isnt the word. now im used to it and i kinda look for it, over train tracks across bridges, etc. i expect it so i cover the back brake when i know its coming up. learning process thats all

youre right, numbers are numbers and dont always translate to the real world. hell my buddy showed me a video of his mustang on the dyno and it pegged the speedo pretty hard. i was impressed. we went for a ride, not nearly as fast. why, the real world has this crazy wind resistance thing to deal with along with the weight of the car its pulling along, all things that are hard to mimic on a dyno. form the video i thought it would slap my bike around hard, but after going for a ride i might not even need to down gear below 4th

nath981

Probably no rebound as well, huh? well it's good to learn the scary way instead of the hard way. 110mph lowsides are bad enough, but when that front goes up and over at that speed, it's gonna be tough to stop bouncing and rolling.

numbers are not to be discounted, but should not be enslaving either. When you're rippin your 150hp sportbike through the twisties and you can't shake that guy on your tail draggin hardparts on his goldwing, you learn how to put the data into perspective. I like to read, discuss, study,etc., to prepare and learn, then go out and find out for myself.