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Jetting question?

Old 12-06-2008, 08:22 PM
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Jetting question?

New to the forum and probably the billionth jetting question. I have an 04 superhawk and finally broke down into doing some mods. I did the bafflectomy first due to lack of funds to buy an aftermarket exhaust. It then started to run a little rough and popped and backfired on decel. So I decided to jet the carbs. Went with the factory pro 1.1ti. I installed the main jets 182f/185r changed the needles with the clips on fourth from the top and left everything else alone. I also installed the bmc airfilter and disabled the pair system. Being new to the whole jetting and tuning on the bike I put it all back together not realizing that you cant get to the mixture screw when its all back together(duh). So I fired it up to see how it ran. While cold and while at idle blipping the throttle caused it to stumble and fall off. The problem got better after it warmed up. I then took it on about a ten minute ride. At low rpm throttle response was a little sluggish. Cruiseing between about 3000 and 5000 rpm it sputters and misses. Higher rpm about 6000 and above it runs pretty strong. The popping and backfiring on decel has stopped but I am guessing that has to with disableing the pair. Anyway before I take it back apart to mess with the fuel screws I wanted to see if any of ya'll with more wisdom and experience have any suggestions so I dont have to take it apart a hundred times to do small adjustments. Any guidance would be appreciated thanks.
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Old 12-06-2008, 09:45 PM
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Welcome to the Art of fine tuning a carb'ed engine. I will tell you that you probably will have to pull that tank and carbs a couple more time to get her dialed in just right.

You need to be sure to sync the carbs as well. I know i am not answering you specifi questions, but you are probaly close on the jetting and needle settings.

It is now down to Pilot and Fuel/Air Screw fine tuning with carb sync.

I would reccomend the 47 Pilots (at least i think that is right, i last saw the inside of my carbs like 5 years ago) instead of the Factory Pro 50's if that is what they still send in the kit. The 50's are too damn big and the 45's are too small for a VTR with exhaust mod and filter change.

If you buy carb sync gauges get vaccume dial gauges instead of mercury sticks and for goodness sakes install fitting in place of the front carbs screw and run a line over to the left side of the bike and cap the line. Makes sync the carbs like a 2 minute job so that all you need is your gauges and a small wrench with no tank removal required.
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Old 12-06-2008, 09:46 PM
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Oh one last thing the Factory Pro web site has a great troubleshooting page, so be sure to reference it as you fine tune.
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Old 12-06-2008, 09:50 PM
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what size pilot jets ?

tim
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:46 PM
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stock guess there 45
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:04 AM
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I'm in the process of something very similar, after I lowsided mine back in march its been sitting for a while. I started it a couple times and let it idle over the course of 3 months then I moved from Georgia out here to Phoenix. So I tried to start it again and it would barely idle with the choke all the way out until it got warm and then it would just die. Pulled the spark plugs and both were pretty black and fouled out though the rear was much worse. Bought new plugs and emptied all the old gas out of the tank, put new gas in and a ounce or three of that gumout fuel cleaner, I was hoping that might help clean out some of the gunk from the old gas. it ran a lot better after that, no longer would die when hot and is able to idle on its own now. I took it for a ride and it misses under load in first from a stop, i have to give it lots of gas and slip the clutch so it wont die. It also hesitates at low rpm (2-4k) when riding around. So I pulled the new plugs and the front looks lean, whiteish, and the back one was wet. I just pulled the carbs to see if maybe the front pilot jet was clogged and I'm just thinking that maybe the air density out here is less than in georgia and thats why the rear is running rich. I'm new to the whole carb/jetting thing. Any advise? oh and right now its at 190/195 (k&n filter and micron exhaust on bike, that I know of from previous owner), I take it that the rear is more to help cool the rear cylinder, right? Anyway, thats in advance for any input.
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Old 12-07-2008, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by LYCAN View Post
stock guess there 45
Does the kit from Factory pro no longer come with Pilots?

Anyway i ordered the 47's form Honda dealer as the kit cam e with 50's
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:16 AM
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3000 to 5000 sounds a little in the rpm to be the pilot jets. The first thing i would do after syncing the carbs is drop the needle a clip or two. You can do that with the carbs on the bike i believe.
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:48 AM
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for the a/f adjustment... if you 'really' want to get it perfect you should pull the carbs and remove the screw and slot it with a dremel or other tool and buy a 90 degree screw driver.

or: spend the money on the nice motion pro 1/4" drive 90 degree tool and pull the carbs and slot them with a dremel and use the screw drive bit because the motion pro D bit sucks

tim
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Old 12-07-2008, 09:31 AM
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Not trying to stir the pot here, (sorry Greg!) but when I jetted my bike I read all the threads saying DO NOT use the #50 pilot, so I didn't - and the bike ran much like you are describing. Then I decided to follow Factory Pro's directions: Needles on the 3rd (middle) position, installed the included #50 pilots and ended up going about 1 1/4 turns in the idle mixture screws and the bike runs awesome.

Now I will save Greg the trouble of chiming in to tell you that the #50 pilots DO NOT work on most bikes, but they worked great on mine and I would like to think that Factory Pro included them for a reason. Besides, what do you have to lose? You can install them in your bike in the time it takes to drink a couple of beers, (and probably a lot faster than trying to find a #47 pilot) and find out for yourself.
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:39 PM
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Thanks guys for all the good info going to go out and tear into her again here in a little while
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jbaxx View Post
Not trying to stir the pot here, (sorry Greg!) but when I jetted my bike I read all the threads saying DO NOT use the #50 pilot, so I didn't - and the bike ran much like you are describing. Then I decided to follow Factory Pro's directions: Needles on the 3rd (middle) position, installed the included #50 pilots and ended up going about 1 1/4 turns in the idle mixture screws and the bike runs awesome.

Now I will save Greg the trouble of chiming in to tell you that the #50 pilots DO NOT work on most bikes, but they worked great on mine and I would like to think that Factory Pro included them for a reason. Besides, what do you have to lose? You can install them in your bike in the time it takes to drink a couple of beers, (and probably a lot faster than trying to find a #47 pilot) and find out for yourself.
I've seen all the jetting threads also, but since it looks like Lycan is doing what I plan to in the spring, I thought I would ask a few questions.
I have a 99 with microns. I just bought the bike in the fall. I'm 3rd owner and PO does not know if there is a jet kit in or not. Obviously I'm new to the SHawk, but to my feel I think it currently runs great. I have not had it apart farther than to peek at the air filter to confirm that it is OEM. I do not hear the popping on deceleration so I guess it is possible the PAIR was disabled. Just picked up a used K&N (thanks MUherdFan) and I'm guessing I'm going to have to do some jet work.
I thought I'd start cheap by trying shimming first - from the threads I read it would seem that shimming yields some fairly good results -
Any comments?
Also, Jbaxx could you comment on your +4 advancer? To read Factory pros write up it would seem like a great mod, but the threads I've seen here seem to be only luke warm.
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Old 12-07-2008, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jbaxx View Post
Not trying to stir the pot here, (sorry Greg!) but when I jetted my bike I read all the threads saying DO NOT use the #50 pilot, so I didn't - and the bike ran much like you are describing. Then I decided to follow Factory Pro's directions: Needles on the 3rd (middle) position, installed the included #50 pilots and ended up going about 1 1/4 turns in the idle mixture screws and the bike runs awesome.

Now I will save Greg the trouble of chiming in to tell you that the #50 pilots DO NOT work on most bikes, but they worked great on mine and I would like to think that Factory Pro included them for a reason. Besides, what do you have to lose? You can install them in your bike in the time it takes to drink a couple of beers, (and probably a lot faster than trying to find a #47 pilot) and find out for yourself.
Good advice, 47's worked for me where the 50's didn't. It is really dependent on the bike mods and elevation plus temp.

The original Factory Pro kits for the VTR came with 47's and then somewhere along the way they went to 50's.


Of course i also made the Factory Pro reccomended mod of changing the emulsion tubes and making them match. This really helped fix the surging problem at a steady crusie.

Again it has been many years since i fine tuned mine, but i beleive i put a rear emulsion tune in the front carb to make a matched set.

Either way, on the Chassis Dyno my VTR id dead in the ideal Air/Mixture fuel chart from bottom to top RPM.
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Old 12-07-2008, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Stevebis1 View Post
I've seen all the jetting threads also, but since it looks like Lycan is doing what I plan to in the spring, I thought I would ask a few questions.
I have a 99 with microns. I just bought the bike in the fall. I'm 3rd owner and PO does not know if there is a jet kit in or not. Obviously I'm new to the SHawk, but to my feel I think it currently runs great.

Also, Jbaxx could you comment on your +4 advancer? To read Factory pros write up it would seem like a great mod, but the threads I've seen here seem to be only luke warm.

First of all I would say if the bike runs good, there is no need to mess with the jetting. Just stick with the stock filter and save your money for tires or some new riding gear. Now if you want to get a little more perormance you could go with a higher flow air filter and run some bigger main jets (etc.) just start with the suggested baseline settings and be willing to do a little trial and error in order to get everything just right. You will learn a lot about your bike and enjoy the satisfaction of a job well done.

As far as the advancer goes, I installed mine at the same time that I jetted so I can't really say how much difference it made on it's own, but I can say that the bike runs really good! It's only 60 bucks, and every little bit of performance adds up. I also swapped out the short velocity stack in the airbox for a long one (something like 15 bucks from Service Honda) and it made a noticeable improvement in the low to mid rpm range. A great bang for the buck mod and again, every little bit of perfomance adds up.

Good luck!
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Old 12-08-2008, 01:38 PM
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well tore back into it and found that the mixture screws were already 2.5 turns out so now i am slightly stumped. Seeing that most people recommend between 2 and 2.5 turns out anyway. Now debating if should go ahead and try the #50 pilots that came with the kit and go from there. However, while removing the airbox i notice the front hose on the left side of the airbox the one that goes from the front carb to the hole with the foam filter around it wasnt on right. From what i understand that could cause it to run bad as well. Seeing that I am pretty close to sealevel like greg I was sort of mimicking his set up on his website. Except for the mains because the factory pro kit doesnt come with a 188 main jet.
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Old 12-08-2008, 02:11 PM
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i'd put it back together correctly & leave everything else alone. yes, the front 2 hoses can be tough. the one with the clip kills me everytime - the short one usually slides right in.

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Old 12-08-2008, 02:24 PM
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I don't have any experience with bafflectomy. I don't know if it flows a lot more air, a little more, or just makes more noise. Sounds like you went up three sizes on the main jets. Don't know that a bafflecomy would support that kind of jump. I think adding oversize pilots might just make it worse.
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Old 12-08-2008, 02:29 PM
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Bafflectomy opens up a bit... Not quite a match for a good aftermarket slip-on but nearly... Three sizes on the mains might be a bit much... two would be my guess?
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Old 12-08-2008, 04:34 PM
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well I think I will just change my name to big dummy because it seems the hose that wasnt connected all the way was 98% percent of the problem. Put it back together and went and rode and most all of the issue went away. Pulls pretty hard and doesnt stumble and miss like it was doing between 3000 and 5000. Only thing I noticed was it seemed sluggish from a dead stop and when I made small throttle increases at low speed cruising. But I am a fat *** and wide open throttle second gear the front end started coming off the ground which it didnt do before. So when I get the low speed sorted out it will diffenetly be worth all the work.
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Old 12-09-2008, 12:40 PM
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Hello, more jetting info?

I don't know if mine has been jetted or not. I picked it up used in October. D&D pipes (very short and loud.) Runs great, it does pop on closed throttle. I don't know if I like that or not.
I plan on new (Honda) filter and syncing carbs. Does anyone have guidance on if I need to look at jetting?

If it was too lean from the higher flowing pipes, how would I know?

Thank you.
Darren
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Old 12-09-2008, 01:13 PM
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Popping on decel is indicative of a lean condition. Also the Hawk is notorious for the 3k stumble on steady throttle when running lean. White exhaust residue (soot) and spark plug electrodes are other good indicators.
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