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Coming soon: SP2 cluster

Old 07-06-2010, 10:21 AM
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Coming soon: SP2 cluster

I just picked up a slightly damaged speedo cluster from a 2003 RC51 (for cheap!). Based on info provided by the seller (who is apparently a reliable guy based on existing feedback) and pics I saw, it seems the damage is only cosmetic and a new top cover will fix everything. My plans are to mount it up to the Graves alumium fairing stay (will allow me to fashion an adapter plate at my leisure) and I can then install the whole set-up in one fell swoop when I remove the fairing in the coming weeks to replace some bolts (feeding my Ti addiction). The chap threw in the front wiring harness too so the re-wiring should be relatively straightforward.

Thre questions for anyone who can help:
1) are wire colours the same? (I will have to fit the new connector onto the existing wiring) or does anyone have access to the wiring codes/schematic for the RC?
2) I was thinking of keeping the existing fuel tank warning light system and simply wiring it into either the FI warning light or the sidestand warning light (see no need for the added expense or hassle of replacing the tank sending unit to get a fuel gauge) and both aformentioned lights will not be used for their original purpose.
3) I recall reading that I will need to replace the stock engine coolant temp sending unit and replace it with one from a later model VTR (with digital temp gauge). Is this correct? Does anyone have the correct p/n as Ron Ayers lists them all as the same (and based on my search (yes Markus, I tried, lol) they are different)?

thanks in advance

Last edited by mikstr; 07-06-2010 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 07-06-2010, 12:56 PM
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Well... It's mostly in Swedish, but you should be able to figure it out... www.tweety.se/links.php just download the pdf for the SP2... Can also grab the coloured schematic for the VTR if you like...

Why use the FI light? the RC has the same setup with a low fuel light that the hawk has, so just wire it into that and it should work like always... It's probably just confusing if the low fuel light is dark and the FI is lit when you need to fill up... I'm not too sure, does it have a sidestand light?

As for colours, yeah most of them will probably work if you just match them up... But spend an evening tracing the wires on those schematics and you know for sure...

The sending units for the VTR's are the same for all years, wont help you one darned bit to swap those... The fun part is that the SP uses almost the same resistance values as the hawk, so just wire it up and it's a go... Will be off by a degree or two... But it works...

Last edited by Tweety; 07-06-2010 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 07-06-2010, 01:14 PM
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thanks Markus

So the sending units for the 99 are the same as the later models with the digital temp gauge? I thought it had to be changed to be able to utilize a digital gauge.....

As for the fuel light, I thought the RC had a gauge.... shows what I know.....
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Old 07-06-2010, 01:34 PM
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Nah... The signal is the same, a resistance varying with the temp... The only difference is the circuit in the gauge representing it on a dial or the display... But that doesn't matter to the sensor...

The reason the newer Honda's have other sensors are that a digital display offers more accuracy, if the sensor can supply it... And varying between 100's of ohms to 10's of ohms with temps are less accurate than 2k ohm to .5k ohms... But the older one's with a digital one used the same type of sensors in a couple of models... Like the RC...

And nope, no fuel gauge... Just a RLOD, although it's yellow, so YLOD perhaps?...
Attached Thumbnails Coming soon: SP2 cluster-rc51_oem.jpg  

Last edited by Tweety; 07-06-2010 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:19 PM
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thanks again bud From what I can see the RC only has a temp warning light.... (unless a digital temps readout can be selected from various display options)...
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:26 PM
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It displays temps in the same place as the trip... Dunno exactly how it's selected though, could be selectable, could be a rolling setup... You'd have to look at the service manual for the RC... And I'm too lazy to do that...
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:31 PM
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thanks again. Besides, once it's on there I'll just play around until it works (it cannot possibly be more complicated than the RC8's instruments... need a PhD for that sucker, lol)
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:41 PM
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Well I can shoot off a message to a friend of mine on a different forum that has a SP2 to get the answer if you would like...
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:42 PM
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What?! The RC8 has got a gauge cluster?

I thought it was the remote for the darned thing... Couldn't find the button to transform it to robot though...
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:43 PM
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Or I could go out and look in the shed... It might miss a front wheel, but the engine works fine...
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 8541Hawk View Post
Well I can shoot off a message to a friend of mine on a different forum that has a SP2 to get the answer if you would like...
Or I could go out and look at the one in the shed... It might be missing a front wheel, but the engine works fine...
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:07 AM
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RC-51 cluster

Good Day,
I have just became a member- IF you have not aquired , or found the informatiom you were asking, I may could help..
I own a 2000, 2003, 2006 RC-51, and (3)1999{project}) 2001Superhawks.
Will be any assists.
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:45 AM
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Thanks

BTW, welcome to the site
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:42 AM
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Well 1761... I think you need more Hondas.
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:01 AM
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Hey Mikstr

If you get it to work, would you detail the install? I am in line for the gauge as well and it would be great if I can follow your footsteps

thanks
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:18 AM
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Hello mate I have a SP1 fitted to my VTR, the temperature reading is way too high, starts off at 132 deg, I have spoke to a few people and you do need to change the sensor to a SP type - also the rev counter does not work due to differences of signal with the VTR and SP sender units, would anyone know if and how you can fit the SP sender to a VTR?!
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:03 PM
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Ok... Mikstr had a few questions by PM & email, but I'll answer here, more useful for all...

First and foremost, bealsey... Whatever way you hooked it up, start over... You have been given bogus information... You do not need another temp sensor or sensor for the tacho...

The tacho (rpm) uses the exact same signal, the exact same way on the VTR-F and the RC-51/SP... If you don't believe me have a look in the two service manuals at the description for the function check...

Same goes for the termosensor, the resistance values are identical on the VTR-F and RC-51/SP... One thing though, the sensors on the VTR-F is the same through the years, but the older one's have basicly crap calibration as the dialgauge is about as accurate as using your hand for gauging temperature (not hot-hot-ouch)... So a new temp sensor with a better calibration might be a good idea if your bike is 97-00, but the old one will work just the same as the newer... Might be a few degrees of...

Also as a basis for the discussion, the gauge cluster of the SP1 & SP2 is completely the same, interchangeable without any difference what-so-ever... This according to both the service manual and the fact that I swapped the clusters of an SP2 & SP1 a couple of minutes ago with no ill effects... (I have broken SP2 on the mend and a buddy has a SP1)...

I also read through the wiring diagram, and confirmed the wiring...

All colors is a direct match with the exception of a few wires... Now some of the wiring is confirmed and working, but some is only checked on the schematic as I have a European VTR-F and SP2... But I did hook the SP2 cluster in and had the same tacho on both that and my other gauge at the same time... So that does work... No guessing, confirmed fact...

BTW for reference I can swap the other one between a CBR 1000RR gauge and the stock VTR-F from 97... And they both show the same... It didn't like having three of them hooked up at the same time though... That made them all go completely nuts and show random data...

Ok... Hook up... Start with hooking up all colors that match... That should leave you with only 4 left on each side... (or 5 if you got confused by the double black/brown, see below)

One thing to note here... black/brown is NOT the same as brown/black!!! Look very carefully at the wires and find the same base color and the same ring...

The brown wire on the VTR-F equals black/brown on the RC... This wire is doubled to the gauge cluster, pick one to hook to brown and the other to the black/brown from the VTR, it doesn't matter which is which, as they are connected together in the VTR anyway (on US models, European models are different one of these are then switched on/off with our parking light that the US models have hardwired)

The blue wire on the VTR-F equals the blue/black on the RC (highbeam indicator)

The RC cluster will also need to be hooked to green (ground) and according to the schematic the US models doesn't have this as my EU one does... This is because of differences with the running lights, so the best option is to just find it at the headlight or someplace else close by...

The the only wire left at the RC cluster now is white/blue... That's the FI light... Also if you have and 97-00 VTR-F, you should have the yellow/blue left on the VTR-F, that's the sidestand... The newer 01-> cluster doesn't have that light, so no wire... Either cap them off and leave them, or use the FI for the sidestand indicator, up to you...

Good luck...
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:05 PM
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BTW... Unfortunately it's too dark outside for me to take pictures/video of the two clusters side by side hooked to my bike, so you will just have to take my word for it...

I might be bothered to hook them up tomorrow and take video, just for the hell of it though...
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:26 PM
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You da man Markus!!!!!! THanks a million!!!
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
Same goes for the termosensor, the resistance values are identical on the VTR-F and RC-51/SP... One thing though, the sensors on the VTR-F is the same through the years, but the older one's have basicly crap calibration as the dialgauge is about as accurate as using your hand for gauging temperature (not hot-hot-ouch)... So a new temp sensor with a better calibration might be a good idea if your bike is 97-00, but the old one will work just the same as the newer... Might be a few degrees off...
That explains much, because when we swapped the cluster on yruyur's bike we ended up swapping to the newer temperature sender because in testing (with the boiling water method suggested in the manual) they were VERY different from each other... And the newer one we put in works great with his cluster.
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:37 PM
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Quick question:can the temperature sender be changed in the bike or does it require draining the cooling system and removing the thermostat housing?
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mikstr View Post
Quick question:can the temperature sender be changed in the bike or does it require draining the cooling system and removing the thermostat housing?
I think we swapped it out on the bike no problems.. a drop or two of coolant escaped, but that was all.
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:03 PM
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Yeah, like lazn said... On a service stand, but not on the sidestand... It's narrow as hell in there though...
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:09 PM
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BTW if you wonder how I got that information... I'm now the proud owner of about a dozen temp sensors or so, several of them from various years of VTR's... I don't know if it's age or if it's that way from the factory, but the older one's are all over the scale, the newer are fairly uniform...

The reason for this is that I have tried to figure out a solution to my own dilemma with the temp sensor of the CBR 1000RR which has an entirely different scale...
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:28 PM
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AS Ron Ayers only lists one part number for the temp. sending unit for all years of VTRs (when this is clearly not the case, the 2001 and later models getting a different version), I did some research and found the following part numbers:

1997-2000: 37750-PC1-004
2001 and later (the one you want): 37750-KV3-951

Hope this helps someone out there. I will be ordering one tomorrow in preparation for my cluster swap.

cheers

Last edited by mikstr; 07-13-2010 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:18 PM
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ok definately sounds like someone has given me bad info, i bought a wiring harness someone had made that plugs into existing plugs and onto SP gauge, if you don't mind me asking what wire will i need to look at to find the Rev counter as thats the only bit not working!!! I hate electrics so much!!!
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:26 PM
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Well now, it's amazing what you'll find on the internet...

Here's a link for your wiring diagram if you don't already have it: http://www.rc51.info/index.php?page=service

Hope it helps!

Anyone want forks? Ha... now I'm just whoring. Good luck with your swap.

Last edited by scootergmc; 07-13-2010 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by scootergmc View Post
Well now, it's amazing what you'll find on the internet...

Here's a link for your wiring diagram if you don't already have it: http://www.rc51.info/index.php?page=service

Hope it helps!

Anyone want forks? Ha... now I'm just whoring. Good luck with your swap.
Oh, don't worry... I have schematics...

Originally Posted by bealsey View Post
ok definately sounds like someone has given me bad info, i bought a wiring harness someone had made that plugs into existing plugs and onto SP gauge, if you don't mind me asking what wire will i need to look at to find the Rev counter as thats the only bit not working!!! I hate electrics so much!!!
The yellow/green wire is the one for the tacho... But I'd also suggest verifying all the basic supply ones...

Ie you have two black/brown ones (RC)... One should be hooked to a black/brown, the other to a brown (VTR-F)... And both of them should have battery voltage with the ignition on...

The green and green/black should be grounded and connected to matching cables...

The red/green cable should be hooked up to a matching one and should have battery voltage at all times, regardless of the ignition...
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Old 07-14-2010, 04:38 AM
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Excellent, cheers Tweety, looks like i am spending tonight with wire diagram, haynes manual and a pack of guinness!!
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Old 08-14-2010, 10:53 PM
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Thinking with this info I might dish out the cash and do the swap
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