another n00b - from WI
04-25-2012, 06:57 PM
#32
über-n00b
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S. WI
Posts: 257
sorry about the post-whoring...I keep forgetting stuff.
Temp gauge & single radiator:
temp stayed no more than middle of the range. I couln't tell if the fans had ever kicked in, but it never went more than 1/2 way in temp.
?
Temp gauge & single radiator:
temp stayed no more than middle of the range. I couln't tell if the fans had ever kicked in, but it never went more than 1/2 way in temp.
?
04-25-2012, 09:10 PM
#33
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
04-28-2012, 06:38 PM
#34
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Posts: 655
Man just skimmed the post nice to see my old bodywork going around the track again. Did you sell that small faring you had when it was naked. I am doing a 79cb750 cafe racer and want something like that. If you need any help on the hawk just let me know ok. Im out of the hospital now and feeling better. man dont take your health for granted have a ton of work on my bike to do and slept for about 30 hrs in the last two days with the dam meds im on. what track looks like RA not black hawk farms also want to head to the ama races together if you are going I try to go every year unless raining. Also they have a nesba thing the weekend before sort of cool to see them on the track you where just on just days before.
Last edited by Stumpy; 04-28-2012 at 06:42 PM.
04-28-2012, 06:45 PM
#35
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Posts: 655
04-29-2012, 02:58 PM
#36
über-n00b
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S. WI
Posts: 257
I still have the fender-fairing & light. I also have the renthal bars and risers AND the little lower fairing thing...I need to get around to selling that stuff :sillyme:
The photos above were Blackhawk. I was trying to make RA next week....but...family garage sale trumped my evil plans.
The photos above were Blackhawk. I was trying to make RA next week....but...family garage sale trumped my evil plans.
04-30-2012, 08:54 PM
#37
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Posts: 655
We will have to hook up soon the slimy crud run is the end of may I think will have to check. Do you have a lap timer I have a very lightly used one that is all set up for the fairings that you got from me. forgot how much I paid for it of hand but will not be hard to find out. Maybe we could trad some things or cash works do you still have my number if not will pm it to you ok. Talk later.
05-01-2012, 06:46 PM
#38
über-n00b
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S. WI
Posts: 257
I have a timer...but trades may be in order. I'll try to see if I get time this weekend...CCS races at RA are calling...i might go hangout with some friends.
i think I have your number yet...ends 3451?
Crud is this weekend!!
1st Sunday of May.
i think I have your number yet...ends 3451?
Crud is this weekend!!
1st Sunday of May.
05-19-2012, 09:49 PM
#40
über-n00b
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S. WI
Posts: 257
as I'm getting ready for a 3-day traclday weekend at Autobahn...I decided to paint everything (no offense Stumpy).
I did a bunch of wetsanding, rattlecan, wetsand, rattle, clear coat...
the front fender was a ruff finish red, the tail was just primer, I got a new lower...finished those three pieces!
I did a bunch of wetsanding, rattlecan, wetsand, rattle, clear coat...
the front fender was a ruff finish red, the tail was just primer, I got a new lower...finished those three pieces!
05-19-2012, 09:51 PM
#41
über-n00b
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S. WI
Posts: 257
still working on the upper...it'll be red with black & silver accents. hoping to finish it tomorrow?
I'll have some better pics of everything when done.
Also need to flush the coolant (dangit), and replace with Engine Ice.
I'll have some better pics of everything when done.
Also need to flush the coolant (dangit), and replace with Engine Ice.
05-23-2012, 10:01 PM
#42
über-n00b
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S. WI
Posts: 257
I'm probably not following the proper threads for this....sorry.
I tried a Rust-O-Leum Professional Enamel 'Safety Red'.
It is a really close match to 'Winning Red'...which was nice.
here it is.
I tried a Rust-O-Leum Professional Enamel 'Safety Red'.
It is a really close match to 'Winning Red'...which was nice.
here it is.
05-29-2012, 07:58 PM
#43
über-n00b
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S. WI
Posts: 257
got back from Autobahn and a 3-day trackday.
WOW was that HOT !! sat/sun/mon = 93/97/93 degrees!!
I had a great time.
AND...I noticed an issue...with the single radiator up front.
It seems that a single radiator (an original SH rad with the the radiator cap), will work fine for most circumstances....or riding conditions. It could not keep up with cooling in this kind of heat and running high R's on the track.
Sunday (hottest day) I had to come off track because the temp gauge was right at the edge of the "H" - a couple of times. Monday I did the same a couple times.
after I changed to engine ice, I did burp the system and I did see a few air bubbles come out.
when I did a trackday with ambient temps in low 70's, the needle never went past 1/2 way??
SO....I think I may need more surface area for cooling,....at least for running on hot days.
I found a couple threads about front rads, but not a lot of details about before/after...etc.
I found a VFR750 front rad mod in here....and maybe one other.
----------
trouble-shooting I did ('98 SH with stock gauges):
gauge moves, so that sensor is functional
fans kicked in at about 2/3 - 3/4 temp, so that sensor works
radiator starts cool and gets hot, so I think the thermostat is good.
am I missing something, as far as trouble-shooting?
I think the only solution would be a bigger (area) or deeper/thicker capacity OR find all the missing parts to go back to stock??
WOW was that HOT !! sat/sun/mon = 93/97/93 degrees!!
I had a great time.
AND...I noticed an issue...with the single radiator up front.
It seems that a single radiator (an original SH rad with the the radiator cap), will work fine for most circumstances....or riding conditions. It could not keep up with cooling in this kind of heat and running high R's on the track.
Sunday (hottest day) I had to come off track because the temp gauge was right at the edge of the "H" - a couple of times. Monday I did the same a couple times.
after I changed to engine ice, I did burp the system and I did see a few air bubbles come out.
when I did a trackday with ambient temps in low 70's, the needle never went past 1/2 way??
SO....I think I may need more surface area for cooling,....at least for running on hot days.
I found a couple threads about front rads, but not a lot of details about before/after...etc.
I found a VFR750 front rad mod in here....and maybe one other.
----------
trouble-shooting I did ('98 SH with stock gauges):
gauge moves, so that sensor is functional
fans kicked in at about 2/3 - 3/4 temp, so that sensor works
radiator starts cool and gets hot, so I think the thermostat is good.
am I missing something, as far as trouble-shooting?
I think the only solution would be a bigger (area) or deeper/thicker capacity OR find all the missing parts to go back to stock??
Last edited by Spoot; 06-01-2012 at 07:05 AM.
05-29-2012, 08:45 PM
#44
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,033
I bought an ex500 radiator for the front but thats in addition to the 2 sides. It is very difficult to find room on the bike, which is why honda went with the sides. HRC does offer a front rad in their race kit for the RC51 but TMK it is unobtanium.
Alot of guys I know that race hawks (not super) use CBR & GSXR rads cuz they are huge but curved and tapered to help them fit.
Also are you running a bigger oil cooler? That fits easily at the stock location.
Alot of guys I know that race hawks (not super) use CBR & GSXR rads cuz they are huge but curved and tapered to help them fit.
Also are you running a bigger oil cooler? That fits easily at the stock location.
05-30-2012, 04:23 AM
#45
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
spoot....you had good anti freeze, I assume 20-50w or 10-40w oil and your thremo and fan was working properly. Other than that, make sure your rad is clean externally, not clogged with bugs so that you can see light through it.
Other than that i wouldn't worry about the high temps which are to be expected under the conditions you experienced. The antifreeze has a high boiling point if mixed properly and the oil is efficient at those temps. No problem. If you are concerned, change your oil afterward and compare the feel of it to new oil by rubbing it between thumb and finger. If it's shot, you can feel the diff in lubricity.
As long as you are not boiling over and you oil is high quality, you're good to go. I know it's scary when you get into those higher temps, but it's mostly psychological because its not typical to see your needle over there.
If you are really concerned, fit a accurate oil and water temp gauges, find out what the tolerance levels are from the manufacturers, and then you may be able to console yourself a bit. I think you'll find that temps of 260+ are tolerable.
Oh and how do you like your galfer 1375s?
Other than that i wouldn't worry about the high temps which are to be expected under the conditions you experienced. The antifreeze has a high boiling point if mixed properly and the oil is efficient at those temps. No problem. If you are concerned, change your oil afterward and compare the feel of it to new oil by rubbing it between thumb and finger. If it's shot, you can feel the diff in lubricity.
As long as you are not boiling over and you oil is high quality, you're good to go. I know it's scary when you get into those higher temps, but it's mostly psychological because its not typical to see your needle over there.
If you are really concerned, fit a accurate oil and water temp gauges, find out what the tolerance levels are from the manufacturers, and then you may be able to console yourself a bit. I think you'll find that temps of 260+ are tolerable.
Oh and how do you like your galfer 1375s?
05-30-2012, 09:57 PM
#46
über-n00b
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S. WI
Posts: 257
smokin = I have a buddy with a hawk GT. he is using a different rad, but he seems to have a bit more room compared to the SH. he doubled his cooling capacity w/o doubling the dimensions. I'm running the stock oil cooler....I am going to look into the bigger ATV version, for sure.
I'm using Repsol full synth oil. 10w-40.
Engine Ice for coolant.
Nath = The 1375's are great. it was so warm out, I didn't have to 'get heat in them' to work right off the bat. very satisfied with them so far! I will also inspect for wear now, I have 4 days on them. rad looks clean. Fans do work, but only came on after it gets blazing hot.
I did also notice I had a squishy brake master the last two sessions on monday....so, I'll be flushing that fluid again....RBF600 was in there, so, it's weird to think I wore it out in 3 days.
the JD shock was working well - My Pirelli Rosso Corsa's had nearly perfect wear each day. 1st day they had a little tear, but I set the pressure to 32/32 for day 2 & 3, then they cleaned up nice and looked darn near perfect!
I'm using Repsol full synth oil. 10w-40.
Engine Ice for coolant.
Nath = The 1375's are great. it was so warm out, I didn't have to 'get heat in them' to work right off the bat. very satisfied with them so far! I will also inspect for wear now, I have 4 days on them. rad looks clean. Fans do work, but only came on after it gets blazing hot.
I did also notice I had a squishy brake master the last two sessions on monday....so, I'll be flushing that fluid again....RBF600 was in there, so, it's weird to think I wore it out in 3 days.
the JD shock was working well - My Pirelli Rosso Corsa's had nearly perfect wear each day. 1st day they had a little tear, but I set the pressure to 32/32 for day 2 & 3, then they cleaned up nice and looked darn near perfect!
05-30-2012, 10:01 PM
#47
über-n00b
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S. WI
Posts: 257
I have some vids to crunch and post soon....
I'll get the track pics in about 12-15 days from now....I'll post those too.
The beacon at the track wasn't pointed properly, so I only got like 3 laps counted the whole weekend.
I'll get the track pics in about 12-15 days from now....I'll post those too.
The beacon at the track wasn't pointed properly, so I only got like 3 laps counted the whole weekend.
05-31-2012, 04:52 AM
#50
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
Nath = The 1375's are great. it was so warm out, I didn't have to 'get heat in them' to work right off the bat. very satisfied with them so far! I will also inspect for wear now, I have 4 days on them. rad looks clean. Fans do work, but only came on after it gets blazing hot.
I did also notice I had a squishy brake master the last two sessions on monday....so, I'll be flushing that fluid again....RBF600 was in there, so, it's weird to think I wore it out in 3 days.
the JD shock was working well - My Pirelli Rosso Corsa's had nearly perfect wear each day. 1st day they had a little tear, but I set the pressure to 32/32 for day 2 & 3, then they cleaned up nice and looked darn near perfect!
I did also notice I had a squishy brake master the last two sessions on monday....so, I'll be flushing that fluid again....RBF600 was in there, so, it's weird to think I wore it out in 3 days.
the JD shock was working well - My Pirelli Rosso Corsa's had nearly perfect wear each day. 1st day they had a little tear, but I set the pressure to 32/32 for day 2 & 3, then they cleaned up nice and looked darn near perfect!
brake fluid........i rarely flush system, just empty the reservoir, clean any residue with a Q-tip, and refill. I do this often and always when it even starts to darken a little. Basically, it's always clean. Usually no need to bleed if you don't touch the brake lever. Takes a few minutes.
squishy feel......If you do flush, as the last part of the bleeding process, quickly loosen/tighten nut holding 2 lines at reservoir and see if that helps feel. Mine seems to require this.
32/32 tire pressure.....seems very high for track days esp at those temps. I run 28r/31f cold on Q2s for twisties for much cooler temps than your track days were.
05-31-2012, 05:47 PM
#51
über-n00b
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S. WI
Posts: 257
I started with 30/30 on the first TD with 70' temps and I had slight tearing.
then at ACC - a buddy that had been using this same tire for some time was doing 32/32. when I did that, they cleaned up and looked perfect.
Q2's have a wide range from what I hear, in usable pressures. that tire has been used with many "A" group riders, which is a real testament to the Q2. YMMV.
05-31-2012, 07:23 PM
#52
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
Yep, here's the answer I got when I asked the pirellis rep for the Diablo Rosso Corsa recommended cold pressure...
Street; 32-FRONT 30-REAR
Track; 29-FRONT 27-REAR
BTW, very happy with the tires so far!
Phil, what are your thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil954
I have just put a new pair Pirelli Diablo Corsa Rosso's on my S1000 and was wondering what tyre pressures I should use on both the road and track, so I emailed Pirelli UK and this was their reply......
hello Phil,
thankyou for your inquiry.
for your bike the pressures that we recommend for the road are the ones that are
set in your bikes handbook,
for the track however we recommend setting them to around 28/29 psi on the rear
and to around 30/32 psi on the front.
regards
pirellimoto GB
Tire Pressure - Page 7 - BMW S1000RR Forums: BMW Sportbike Forum
05-31-2012, 09:49 PM
#53
über-n00b
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S. WI
Posts: 257
I was doing cold pressure.
ambient was 80 in the am, 90 by noon, 93 for the high on saturday&monday. 97 high sunday.
track temp - dunno. mostly sunny, but some thick clouds on occasion. so, I would guess the surface was hot.
so I may have been a little high according to the info you found.
now...here is the wierd thing....
- tire wear was near perfect after each session.
'wear' is a result of 2 things. pressure & suspension setup.
my suspension (rear) is a JDM F4i street build. tweaked/set by TSE in WI.
tire pressure dictates the squishing/unsquishing of the sidewall to generate heat.
too much heat and you can get hot-tear. too little heat and you get cold tear.
(rebound/compression&spring rate can do stuff too, but lets leave that out)
as I try to figure this all in my head....if I was 3psi too high, but had "perfect" wear, I wonder what wear woulda been like running at the "recomended" with the same conditions?
logic would say, the tire would have generated more heat and possibly start to get hot-tear?
now, there is probably a range of ambient temps that the tire will function and show proper wear.....so, maybe I was within that range?
with Pirelli recomending those settings, what ambient temp is that based on?
ambient was 80 in the am, 90 by noon, 93 for the high on saturday&monday. 97 high sunday.
track temp - dunno. mostly sunny, but some thick clouds on occasion. so, I would guess the surface was hot.
so I may have been a little high according to the info you found.
now...here is the wierd thing....
- tire wear was near perfect after each session.
'wear' is a result of 2 things. pressure & suspension setup.
my suspension (rear) is a JDM F4i street build. tweaked/set by TSE in WI.
tire pressure dictates the squishing/unsquishing of the sidewall to generate heat.
too much heat and you can get hot-tear. too little heat and you get cold tear.
(rebound/compression&spring rate can do stuff too, but lets leave that out)
as I try to figure this all in my head....if I was 3psi too high, but had "perfect" wear, I wonder what wear woulda been like running at the "recomended" with the same conditions?
logic would say, the tire would have generated more heat and possibly start to get hot-tear?
now, there is probably a range of ambient temps that the tire will function and show proper wear.....so, maybe I was within that range?
with Pirelli recomending those settings, what ambient temp is that based on?
05-31-2012, 10:04 PM
#54
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,033
You should really worry less about "perfect wear" (whatever that is) and just run recommended pressure. You are way more concerned with proper footprint and contact patch than wear pattern. You only think about changing pressure based on temp if its like 45-50*.
FWIW in 11 yrs of racing I never had the dunlop tech tell me to vary pressure by more than a pound or 2 and that was only to avoid chatter. I have always run 29r 32f. From 50* to 103*.
FWIW in 11 yrs of racing I never had the dunlop tech tell me to vary pressure by more than a pound or 2 and that was only to avoid chatter. I have always run 29r 32f. From 50* to 103*.
05-31-2012, 11:32 PM
#55
über-n00b
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S. WI
Posts: 257
smokin - and it's possible that the Dunlop will perform in all ambients as you state.
I'm not sure how often you go through tires or if you have a money tree in the back yard....but, I am just trying to ensure that I dont **** a set of tires for no good reason.
I ran lower pressure at my last TD and I had a little tearing.
This TD I ran a little higher pressure and had no tearing.
each day I had no issues with grip. I felt no slides.
I understand that lower pressures will provide larger contact patches and provide more grip.
do you use warmers? do you use street/dot's? if you are running 209's or 211's, then we're kinda talkin apples and oranges, no? race tires have carcasses for racing. one pressure fits all, in a sense - as far as I've experienced listening to the tire guy at the track (for a single model of tire....not ALL brands of race tires).
now, although I got a head-ache watching this as there is a LOT of info to digest, I liked this vid from Dave Moss.
Dave Moss Unsprung: Tire Wear | OnTheThrottle.com
I'm not sure how often you go through tires or if you have a money tree in the back yard....but, I am just trying to ensure that I dont **** a set of tires for no good reason.
I ran lower pressure at my last TD and I had a little tearing.
This TD I ran a little higher pressure and had no tearing.
each day I had no issues with grip. I felt no slides.
I understand that lower pressures will provide larger contact patches and provide more grip.
do you use warmers? do you use street/dot's? if you are running 209's or 211's, then we're kinda talkin apples and oranges, no? race tires have carcasses for racing. one pressure fits all, in a sense - as far as I've experienced listening to the tire guy at the track (for a single model of tire....not ALL brands of race tires).
now, although I got a head-ache watching this as there is a LOT of info to digest, I liked this vid from Dave Moss.
Dave Moss Unsprung: Tire Wear | OnTheThrottle.com
06-01-2012, 07:53 AM
#58
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
smokin - and it's possible that the Dunlop will perform in all ambients as you state.
I'm not sure how often you go through tires or if you have a money tree in the back yard....but, I am just trying to ensure that I dont **** a set of tires for no good reason.
I ran lower pressure at my last TD and I had a little tearing.
This TD I ran a little higher pressure and had no tearing.
each day I had no issues with grip. I felt no slides.
I'm not sure how often you go through tires or if you have a money tree in the back yard....but, I am just trying to ensure that I dont **** a set of tires for no good reason.
I ran lower pressure at my last TD and I had a little tearing.
This TD I ran a little higher pressure and had no tearing.
each day I had no issues with grip. I felt no slides.
drop those pressures to at least 27r/ 30f and shred the hell out of those tires now! now!...........ya hear me boy! haha
Seriously, i understand the need to conserve tires relative to cost because i have limited resources myself, however, if you choose to go to the track, do it right. The track is the place to tear those ******* off and if you feel no slipping/sliding, you ain't track riding. You may be street riding on the track though. How do you know where the limits are if you are not experiencing some indicators that you are stressing the tires/suspension/ your abilities/etc., as in skipping/slipping/sliding/juddering or just scaring the f out of yourself just to get that adrenalin jacked? If you just want to ride around the track at 80%, how do you improve, evolve, go faster, learn what your and your bike are capable of ? Get up there to 95% and tear those rubber bastards to hell. That's your mission!
I'm not critical of your efforts in a destructive or negative way, in fact i respect your getting out there where many and indeed most will never go because they don't have the *****, the money or maybe because it's just not in their genes. Just giving you some food for thought. If you can benefit, fine, if you think i'm full of **** , that's fine too.
It's great to know and take good care to make certain your suspen/tires. etc are safe and functionally performing well so that you feel confidence in your horse, but when you roll onto track, it's time to change roles from a pensive, thorough mechanic to a pissed-off racer and test you and your horse to the limits or dam close to them.
It's hard to explain and maybe harder to heed, but it's just an attitude that you can or choose not to embrace, but it's my way and that's all I can offer you.
Last edited by nath981; 06-01-2012 at 03:42 PM.
06-01-2012, 05:17 PM
#59
über-n00b
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S. WI
Posts: 257
haha, lol....no prob guys...I enjoy a good conversation and a chance to learn. trying to take it all in.
ya, I guess I have a little too much self preservation at this point. I am progressing, just taking the slow route.
I got an email back from the midwest distributor of Pirelli...he says 30f/29r as a baseline...adjust after checking hot - right off the track.
DiabloRacers.com says 30-34F hot / 25-28R hot. So, that's a little off from what my local guy says.
SO....I guess I'll drop some pressure and keep trying to wick it up.
ya, I guess I have a little too much self preservation at this point. I am progressing, just taking the slow route.
I got an email back from the midwest distributor of Pirelli...he says 30f/29r as a baseline...adjust after checking hot - right off the track.
DiabloRacers.com says 30-34F hot / 25-28R hot. So, that's a little off from what my local guy says.
SO....I guess I'll drop some pressure and keep trying to wick it up.
06-01-2012, 05:25 PM
#60
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,033
I promise you guys that not one WSBK guys is concerned about tire wear other than how the bike handles as they go off later in the race.
Cold tearing is surface stuff. One session can get rid of it so its no big deal.
I would recommend not going nuts over hot pressure unless thats all you are using. If you try to monitor both you will drive yourself nuts.
Cold tearing is surface stuff. One session can get rid of it so its no big deal.
I would recommend not going nuts over hot pressure unless thats all you are using. If you try to monitor both you will drive yourself nuts.
