aja

In light of a fatal crash yesterday a discussion popped up on my local riders thread about tire warming.

Most think that swerving side to side will warm the tires, when that is actually not the case. Rubber needs a great deal of flex to properly warm up, and swerving side to side does not provide the needed flex. I admit, I do swerve side to side sometimes, but only to remove debris from my tires, and never accelerating hard.

The best way to warn street tires is by acceleration and deceleration. If you've ever watched top fuel dragsters you will notice that when they burn out, the tires flex tremendously from the acceleration. You essentially want to get your tires to flex in the same manner. While hard acceleration and deceleration on cold tires is dangerous, if done right and in moderation you can quickly bring your rubber temperature up.

Add any tips or knowledge you have, this is just a quick reminder and heads up for those who don't know.

Article on local crash with pictures and video:
http://www.slostringer.com/2012/03/fatal-single-motorcycle-accident-on-turri-road/

rz_racer_69

NIce article in roadracing world (since removed) years ago about testing done to disprove weaving as a way to heat tires: Tire Temp. and Weaving

jay956

Take it to the track.

RWhisen

It wasn't failure to warm up the tires that killed this rider, it was failure to control his motorcycle that killed him.

aja

That's true, but what caused him to crash was that he was misinformed about weaving to warm the tires. Had he known better, he might still be alive.

RWhisen

I weave somtimes just for fun!

HRCA#1

After looking at the video I'm not sure tire temps had anything to do with it. It's not like he just exited a neighborhood. The video seems to be in a rural area and I would suspect he had ridden a ways to get there, thus tires are arguably warm. If he was weaving side to side I suspect it was for some other reason, although I can't think of a good one. The loss of life is tragic and my heart goes out to his family, but this just doesn't look like a "cold" tire issue.

aja

There was a witness to the crash that said she saw him weaving a few times. That road is about 10 minutes from town, so no doubt his tires were warm. The issue isn't about then being warm, but rather the reason he was swerving. It was a 59 year old man, the reason I think he didn't know better is because the bike had a stunt brake lever along with the clutch, and I don't know any stunters that are 59. Id guess that he either just bought it, or it was his sons.

George H Hill

It appears that one of the weaves may have been too aggressive, or for other unknown reasons the rider left the roadway through the mud and continued into the creek.

So he lost control of his bike while weaving... The whole warm up thing is just conjecture/assumption. He was weaving and lost control.

racer187x

Maybe a bit distasteful publishing the pic with the CHP guys laughing (the link in the OP's first post). I know that they're not laughing at the incident, just a poor choice of picture for the article.

To get to the point of the OP, you're right. Weaving around does not accelerate tire warming at all. Coming from professional supermoto racing background I can tell you that our tire warmers were put on as soon as possible when arriving at the paddock race day to properly heat soak the tires. Minimum 20-30 mins to get the carcass up to temp and taken off at the last possible second to preserve as much of the heat cycle as possible. That being said, street tires aren't designed the same as race tires. However, one important thing is similar. Tires can only endure so many heat cycles (cold-hot-cold) before the rubber starts losing quality. For that reason, just because there is plenty of "tread" life left on a tire does not mean that the tire is still good! Another important thing that may be a factor in this tragedy.

Old Yeller

I don't use tire warmers at the track at my levels. Although I'd like to have them, they are not critical to my riding there. I always take 2 laps at a slower pace gradually picking up speed to allow the tires to come up to temp. In addition, alternating firm braking and accelerating will help temps too. (at least as I understand it...someone please dispell if that's not true). I weave only for debris purposes, cleaning sand and gravel off the tires. 187 is correct about heat cycles. I have to stay conscious of that because I don't use the warmers.

1971allchaos

Have to agree with Ol" yeller... I use tire warmers at the track, and ride conscious of the way the tires react over a distance (riding on the street).
Also gonna have to agree with----- "IF" witnesses had seen this rider over ten minutes prior (RIDING, MOVING) There would be heat in the tires, Not heat to do any High speed carving, Yet - even with in the first mile of riding, the tires on my bike do hold the road (For logical riding speeds- for the first miles) It was the rider that usually kills themselves

1971allchaos

Logically you have to admit it.. Even our close (BlueRidgeBoy-Zae ) riding partners, do make there choices, and what the conclusions are going to be for their riding habits- especially on the street...

aja

For the record, I wasn't suggesting he crashed because his tires weren't warm, rather that he had the assumption that swerving would warm his tires up. The swerving and rapid rate of acceleration caused the crash, regardless of tire temp.

smokinjoe73

I am always amazed at this riding fact. The real reason someone crashes is 99% different from the explanation given.

I have heard people say they just tried to cross a white line & crashed. Someone told me they leaned so far the rim hit the road, etc.

But almost always its rider panic. I have seen novice racers almost high-side a bike going 10-15 mph slower at the apex than I do on equal equipment, and Doug Henry would be passing me on the outside when he comes around.

Not a lack of traction but a mis-use of it. Very common with track day squids which is why they usually dont want racers out there with them lest they overcook the corner and crash when they panic.

Its really just a reminder that these things (bikes) can bite if mistreated.

As for tire warming, it depends on ambient temp alot, but on cold tires I can slide my knee before the end of the first lap. But thats after 11 years of racing & learning.

On the street I NEVER do that stuff. The house always wins. If you want to exploit a sportbike, go to a track. Otherwise you are living on borrowed time.

BTW, I didnt watch any of that video but I wouldn't recommend it. Certain things you can't un-see.

Old Yeller

Yeah, I understood what you were getting at Aja. After discussing the crash itself, the discussion turned to "does swerving warm tires up quicker". What did the guys in your group think about swerving?

aja

Well most of the active members are veteran track riders and know proper procedure, that thread served as a heads up to people who didn't know also

smokinjoe73

Ok so short(er) answer. Swerving is a waste of undue risk. Its a real squid maneuver like twirling a pool cue.

Assume you have cold tires and gradually increase lean angle. Hard acceleration and braking help but be careful to not wash the front end.