Oils well that ends well
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 281
From: Denver, CO
Oils well that ends well
So I change my oil to Catrol 20W-50 4T morotrcycle oil since it runs a bit hot (like 240 deg. F) but I forgot how much a motorcycle will bog down at WOT (wide-open-throttle) so now I have the power of a Ninja 500R so I decided to read "Oils well that ends well" motorcycle article.
It suggests that there's really no noticable difference in motorcycle oils versus auto oils except a smaller amount of molybdenum (no moly apparently means "some") but this lack is compensated with other things like calcium or phosphorus, and that clutch-slip really isn't an issue now-a-days.
I remember back about 5 years ago when I had a Ninja 250R (still a pretty remarkable bike) and my top speed on the speedo was 112 mph using Mobil 1 5W-30 (auto) but when I used Mobil 1 20W-50 it'd bog down and my top speed was 97 mph on the speedo. The manual even stated that reasons for top-end speed reduction was too thick a viscocity of oil. Also, gas milage would suffer (understandably).
Back about 10 years ago, I don't even think you could get motorcycle-specific oil? Apparently there's a hype about the whole thing. Motorcycle oils tend to retain their viscocity rating a little better, particularly Castrol. (ie. the top number doesn't degrade as quickly) but that's about it. Interestingly, the auto version of Castrol (same visc.) kept better viscocity than Honda HP4. What did people use 10 years ago? What about 40 years ago? I doubt they used specialized motorcycle oils. Hype? Well, I had subtle clutch-slip on my Ninja 250 where the clutch at redline would slip upon gear change (felt like a turbo boost sorta).
Apparently synth is the way to go as there's a 20% Hp loss (?!) on a GSX-1000 according to the article when dyno'ed dino-blood versus synth.
I went out and got some 5W-50 Castrol synth (auto) to try. I'll check for clutch slip. After the first 800 miles I suspect the 50 will become more of a 30 (as all oils tend to do) and that a smaller spread (ie. 10W-30) is more likely to retain the "30" longer than say a 0W-30. Still, I change my oil every 2000 miles anyway so it doesn't really matter. I could probably change it out every 1000 miles and the 50 would be retained better.
I'm sure I've created some age-old debates now, but I'm actually doing a personal test here, and if I notice anything weird on the bike I can certainly change back to the HP4 or Mobil MX4T I had before for a few bucks. Interestingly, HP4 rated worst of all the synths, and about the middle-of-the-road for the organic oils. Honda refused to comment because the guy that could answer the question "was on vacation". Hm.
It suggests that there's really no noticable difference in motorcycle oils versus auto oils except a smaller amount of molybdenum (no moly apparently means "some") but this lack is compensated with other things like calcium or phosphorus, and that clutch-slip really isn't an issue now-a-days.
I remember back about 5 years ago when I had a Ninja 250R (still a pretty remarkable bike) and my top speed on the speedo was 112 mph using Mobil 1 5W-30 (auto) but when I used Mobil 1 20W-50 it'd bog down and my top speed was 97 mph on the speedo. The manual even stated that reasons for top-end speed reduction was too thick a viscocity of oil. Also, gas milage would suffer (understandably).
Back about 10 years ago, I don't even think you could get motorcycle-specific oil? Apparently there's a hype about the whole thing. Motorcycle oils tend to retain their viscocity rating a little better, particularly Castrol. (ie. the top number doesn't degrade as quickly) but that's about it. Interestingly, the auto version of Castrol (same visc.) kept better viscocity than Honda HP4. What did people use 10 years ago? What about 40 years ago? I doubt they used specialized motorcycle oils. Hype? Well, I had subtle clutch-slip on my Ninja 250 where the clutch at redline would slip upon gear change (felt like a turbo boost sorta).
Apparently synth is the way to go as there's a 20% Hp loss (?!) on a GSX-1000 according to the article when dyno'ed dino-blood versus synth.
I went out and got some 5W-50 Castrol synth (auto) to try. I'll check for clutch slip. After the first 800 miles I suspect the 50 will become more of a 30 (as all oils tend to do) and that a smaller spread (ie. 10W-30) is more likely to retain the "30" longer than say a 0W-30. Still, I change my oil every 2000 miles anyway so it doesn't really matter. I could probably change it out every 1000 miles and the 50 would be retained better.
I'm sure I've created some age-old debates now, but I'm actually doing a personal test here, and if I notice anything weird on the bike I can certainly change back to the HP4 or Mobil MX4T I had before for a few bucks. Interestingly, HP4 rated worst of all the synths, and about the middle-of-the-road for the organic oils. Honda refused to comment because the guy that could answer the question "was on vacation". Hm.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,844
From: Gainesville FLA.
Actually there's been motorcycle oils on the market as long as I can remember, (started riding in the late 70's) but I've been using auto oil the whole time. The main thing to look out for is the amount of detergent in the oil, that's what will make the clutch slip. As long as it's up to standards you'll be fine.
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,572
From: Buffalo, NY
Re: Oils well that ends well
I use synthetic in most of my toys and I have noticed the oil doesn't seem to break down as quickly compared to dino oils. My truck for instance, 5w-30 oil, would always lose oil pressure as the miles increased between oil changes. When I switched to full synth the oil pressure did not drop like conventional oil did... Before I traded it in I went back to dino oil for one time and the pressure drop was back. These are only my observations and not scientific proof but I am sold on synth oil.
Rick B
02 SH
Rick B
02 SH
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 406
From: Trussville, Alabama
Re: Oils well that ends well
Don't discount the diesel rated oils.
No friction modifiers (so no problems with clutch slip)
Good additive / detergent package.
And, good price too.
I have used Shell Rotella in all 3 bikes for the last several years.
I am real happy with it.
No friction modifiers (so no problems with clutch slip)
Good additive / detergent package.
And, good price too.
I have used Shell Rotella in all 3 bikes for the last several years.
I am real happy with it.
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 406
From: Trussville, Alabama
Re: Oils well that ends well
FWIW, Here's some info I found:
From CITGO web site:
Myth: You can't mix brands of motor oil.
Fact: Mixing brands is not the best practice because the additive systems in each may be different and when mixed may not function as efficiently as desired. However, no serious problems will occur if you must add a different brand of equivalent quality between oil changes. It is very important to maintain proper oil level.
From CHEVRON web site:
Can I mix different viscosity grades of motor oils?
Yes. It is always advisable to not mix motor oils, however, different viscosity grades of the same motor oil are compatible. Be aware that mixing viscosity grades will turn out a product that is different in viscosity than either what was originally in the engine or what was added.
and
My motorcycle owner's manual recommends against using an SJ passenger car motor oil. What product does Chevron have for my motorcycle?
Due to the inclusion of fuel economy requirements in the API category SJ, many oils have been formulated to contain friction modifiers. In a motorcycle wet-clutch application, these additives cause clutch slip and power loss. Chevron Delo® 400 Multigrade SAE 15W-40 is our recommendation for motorcycle use.
(Brian's note: Delo is Chevron's diesel rated oil)
Something to read:
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...up=Lubrication
For me, I'd not loose any sleep if I topped off with somethign different from what was in the crankcase already.
I don't think I'd make a practice of mixing PAO, or other "true" synthetic oil with conventional.
However GP III+ synthetic oils are from a highly refined conventional basestock and I'd mix it with regular oil without any real concern.
Now, I'm talking mixing as far as needing to top off rather than run with a low oil level.
I would, and do, fill with Rotella and keep some handy for top offs.
From CITGO web site:
Myth: You can't mix brands of motor oil.
Fact: Mixing brands is not the best practice because the additive systems in each may be different and when mixed may not function as efficiently as desired. However, no serious problems will occur if you must add a different brand of equivalent quality between oil changes. It is very important to maintain proper oil level.
From CHEVRON web site:
Can I mix different viscosity grades of motor oils?
Yes. It is always advisable to not mix motor oils, however, different viscosity grades of the same motor oil are compatible. Be aware that mixing viscosity grades will turn out a product that is different in viscosity than either what was originally in the engine or what was added.
and
My motorcycle owner's manual recommends against using an SJ passenger car motor oil. What product does Chevron have for my motorcycle?
Due to the inclusion of fuel economy requirements in the API category SJ, many oils have been formulated to contain friction modifiers. In a motorcycle wet-clutch application, these additives cause clutch slip and power loss. Chevron Delo® 400 Multigrade SAE 15W-40 is our recommendation for motorcycle use.
(Brian's note: Delo is Chevron's diesel rated oil)
Something to read:
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...up=Lubrication
For me, I'd not loose any sleep if I topped off with somethign different from what was in the crankcase already.
I don't think I'd make a practice of mixing PAO, or other "true" synthetic oil with conventional.
However GP III+ synthetic oils are from a highly refined conventional basestock and I'd mix it with regular oil without any real concern.
Now, I'm talking mixing as far as needing to top off rather than run with a low oil level.
I would, and do, fill with Rotella and keep some handy for top offs.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 281
From: Denver, CO
Re: Oils well that ends well
So far, Castrol Syntec 5W-50 has given me no problems. Running about 10 degrees cooler than with Mobil MX4T 10W-40. No clutch slippage that I can tell after 200 miles.
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