General Discussion Anything SuperHawk Related

Just Dreaming: 2010 Superhawk?

Old 12-11-2008, 11:13 AM
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Just Dreaming: 2010 Superhawk?

Just something to think about while the weather's cold and wet. With Ducati, KTM and Aprilia all rolling out V-twins, the market seems to be shifting back in the VTR's favor. It seems like a return to the SuperHawk concept but with fuel injection and a little less bodywork would be a good step for Honda.
I would love to see the concept V4 used as the powerplant for a new 150+ hp VTR that could compete with the newer Ducati's. That same engine could be detuned for a fully-faired VFR. -Or would the increase in engine weight put the handling more in line with the Busa or V-Max?
Just a thought.
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Old 12-11-2008, 11:25 AM
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If my hawk had **** and an ***, i would never leave the garage. lol
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Old 12-25-2008, 10:08 PM
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Honda is in "play it safe" mode. We won't see anything good from them for awhile IMO.
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Old 12-26-2008, 07:45 AM
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with this economy and the problems honda has mentioned.

no new models
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Old 12-26-2008, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by inderocker View Post
Honda is in "play it safe" mode. We won't see anything good from them for awhile IMO.
Your certainly right for 09, although it is possible for them to do something for 2010. The tooling exists and has been amortized, a conversion to FI has been done for the Varado and would simply require remapping. However the cost to get 140+ HP is probably not in the cards.

Some revised pistons and cam timing could get a few more HP but I'd settle for the FI and a 5 gallon tank!
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Old 12-26-2008, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by inderocker View Post
Honda is in "play it safe" mode. We won't see anything good from them for awhile IMO.
Gotta agree with inde here, but just for the sake of discussion I think they could use the RC-51 engine/FI etc. (God knows it's paid for) as a basis for a bike with a more streetable chassis and suspension. Make it semi-naked and I think it would make a pretty nice bike. Just a thought.
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Old 12-27-2008, 02:32 AM
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if honda made a supersport with a V4 in it, it would sell like crazy. DO IT HONDA
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Old 12-27-2008, 02:48 AM
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Anto, thank you for this vision. Imagine, Black and red, 600 ish V4 RR. I can see in my head, 380 wet pounds of v4 respect. I want to ride that.
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Old 12-27-2008, 04:07 AM
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I wouldn'tbe surprised if Honda came out with a V-5 within the next 5 years.
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Old 12-27-2008, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by krcrawford29 View Post
Anto, thank you for this vision. Imagine, Black and red, 600 ish V4 RR. I can see in my head, 380 wet pounds of v4 respect. I want to ride that.
That would be a screamer for sure!
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Old 12-27-2008, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by inderocker View Post
Honda is in "play it safe" mode. We won't see anything good from them for awhile IMO.
I, respectfully, hope you're wrong here. If you look at the competition and the V4 Dog and Pony show Honda put on at Cologne, Honda is poised for a "make or break" release for 2010. Here's my prediction... If they don't follow suit, then they've missed the boat:

1. The current VFR has no peers, but is still a twenty-year-old design -save for a few upgrades. It's a bread and butter model for Honda that has the potential to play host to a redesigned V4 platform which could serve as a foundation for at least 3 new/updated derivations -ala the BMW K series -with a "naked," "VFR," and "ST."

2. Such a unified platform could play host to a naked/cafe which could smoke Buell, Ducati, Aprillia, KTM and B-King, a new VFR which could out-refine the Busa/Ninja 1400, and an ST which could compete with the FJ1300 and Concours. -The current ST is an awsome bike, but it's closer to the G-Wing than the FJ or C14. Keep in mind that Honda's history is not to compete with any of the aboved-mentioned bikes, but rather to redefine the classes. The possibilities of what they could do with a 1100+ V4 platform is endless.

3. The inline engine has gone just about as far as it can go. CBR/GSR-R/Ninja's can't continue to evolve at their previous pace and remain a viable engine for the road. V4's now offer a wider powerband with no road-worthy compormise over a higher-reving inline. Let the Big 4 continue to develop the inlines, but they've out-performed their practicallity for the key demographic rider. The V's have benefited so much from the inline's evolution that they've outdone the inlines for everyday use.

4. Honda's r/d has been all about CBRs and VTXs for so long now that they're currently behind their rivals in this class. The only "new" design Honda has offered this year has been a concept themed around the V4 and it's future and history with the company. They're not stupid -except for maybe the DN-01- so they have to be thinking along these lines if they expect to remain viable in the market.

I expect to see some good, and long-overdue, things from Honda in the next year or two. It'd be nice if something would come close to having the soul that the SuperHawk does.

-Brian
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Old 01-02-2009, 02:00 PM
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I'm enjoying this thread...


Where do you guys think the Honda NAS fits into this picture if at all? I realize that it's a concept bike but my hope is that it wasn't all in vain.

Just curious?

Last edited by SkullHeadNoPants; 01-02-2009 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 01-03-2009, 07:32 AM
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V4s do not sell well to squids. Honda wants to keep their market-share. If Honda stepped up and made a naked V4 or Twin there would be alot of happy people around. Just look at Buell though. Everybody screamed thet if they would make a water-cooled sport/naked bike the public would buy it. So far that is not the case! They can't give those ugly things away. It is a shame because I thought the Lightning and Firebolt were very pretty they just had shitty powerplants.
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:18 AM
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The powerplants of Buell were ****, and they looked good. Now, they look like **** and the powerplants a awesome...WTF??? OK, so the new ones don't look completely like ****, but there is much to be desired.

Rooster, I know where you are coming from on the selling point, but end result is performance. If an engine configuration other than I-4 is the best, that is what will sell.
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:43 AM
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All you have to do to get squids to change from I4's to something else is to have more HP. All squids care about is HP never mind the fact that most cannot apply all that HP into a corner (hell I cant get out of 3rd on Palomar)
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Old 01-03-2009, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by rooster View Post
V4s do not sell well to squids. Honda wants to keep their market-share. If Honda stepped up and made a naked V4 or Twin there would be alot of happy people around. Just look at Buell though. Everybody screamed thet if they would make a water-cooled sport/naked bike the public would buy it. So far that is not the case! They can't give those ugly things away. It is a shame because I thought the Lightning and Firebolt were very pretty they just had shitty powerplants.
MARKET SHARE??????? That's the only place they are winning save bike/engine combos that are NOT available to the street market. Honda's name alone is running thin in reputation! Bike sales aren't far behind!
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Old 01-03-2009, 10:02 AM
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Saying the I-4 is used up is premature. Yamaha's new R1 has a new crank/firing order that makes the engine act more like a v4 (from their moto GP design) and an I-4's simplicity and cost of manufacture can't be denied, especially now that there's an economic crunch.

That said, I'd love to see a lighter, better V4 platform from Honda. Even if they updated the Interceptor's engine and shoehorned it into a lighter(much lighter) bike.

I think the next thing to explore are super light sportbikes. How about a sub 300lb bike built around Aprilia's 550cc V-twin supermoto engine?
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Old 01-03-2009, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Barch View Post
I, respectfully, hope you're wrong here. If you look at the competition and the V4 Dog and Pony show Honda put on at Cologne, Honda is poised for a "make or break" release for 2010. Here's my prediction... If they don't follow suit, then they've missed the boat:

1. The current VFR has no peers, but is still a twenty-year-old design -save for a few upgrades. It's a bread and butter model for Honda that has the potential to play host to a redesigned V4 platform which could serve as a foundation for at least 3 new/updated derivations -ala the BMW K series -with a "naked," "VFR," and "ST."

2. Such a unified platform could play host to a naked/cafe which could smoke Buell, Ducati, Aprillia, KTM and B-King, a new VFR which could out-refine the Busa/Ninja 1400, and an ST which could compete with the FJ1300 and Concours. -The current ST is an awsome bike, but it's closer to the G-Wing than the FJ or C14. Keep in mind that Honda's history is not to compete with any of the aboved-mentioned bikes, but rather to redefine the classes. The possibilities of what they could do with a 1100+ V4 platform is endless.

3. The inline engine has gone just about as far as it can go. CBR/GSR-R/Ninja's can't continue to evolve at their previous pace and remain a viable engine for the road. V4's now offer a wider powerband with no road-worthy compormise over a higher-reving inline. Let the Big 4 continue to develop the inlines, but they've out-performed their practicallity for the key demographic rider. The V's have benefited so much from the inline's evolution that they've outdone the inlines for everyday use.

4. Honda's r/d has been all about CBRs and VTXs for so long now that they're currently behind their rivals in this class. The only "new" design Honda has offered this year has been a concept themed around the V4 and it's future and history with the company. They're not stupid -except for maybe the DN-01- so they have to be thinking along these lines if they expect to remain viable in the market.

I expect to see some good, and long-overdue, things from Honda in the next year or two. It'd be nice if something would come close to having the soul that the SuperHawk does.

-Brian
Don't hold you breath for honda to manufacture a bike that will be as popular selling as it is race winning. Certainly not something that is available to the public. Not something that isn't soon trailing in R&D soon after Honda introduces it anyway. I own and have owned my share of Honda Sport bikes and at present am loosing faith in their marketing. I have not been impressed with or encouraged by their offerings for several years now. I don't see this trend changing soon. Notice my current bike list at the bottom of my post. All Honda's that they got right but only one still in production. That one has remained relatively unchanged since '02.
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Old 01-03-2009, 10:22 AM
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Rooster- Buell answered the requests by building the powerful engine everyone wanted. Then they put it in a heavy frame with hideous plastic to completely ruin it. Americans should stick to what they know, the ancient design of HD which sells like candy at the fair to all the image concerned wannabe's.

Here is an excellent platform in desperate need of a V twin or V4. The CB1000R. Not available in America...bastards.
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Old 01-03-2009, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rooster View Post
V4s do not sell well to squids. Honda wants to keep their market-share. If Honda stepped up and made a naked V4 or Twin there would be alot of happy people around. Just look at Buell though. Everybody screamed thet if they would make a water-cooled sport/naked bike the public would buy it. So far that is not the case! They can't give those ugly things away. It is a shame because I thought the Lightning and Firebolt were very pretty they just had shitty powerplants.

I've seen quotes from respected bike designers to the effect (specifically) that they would never sell a bike with the steering geometry of the Buells.
For me it's the less than steller build quality and the ancient engine that's way to tall for a sport bike.
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Old 01-04-2009, 04:36 AM
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RC51 engined retro ($22,000! ouch!) - Seems Honda had engines going spare in 2004

http://www.vincentmotors.com/BIK/sport.php

http://www.vincentmotors.com/NEW/pdfs/RobbReport.pdf

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