Guy dies in dealer parking lot. Wear a Lid!!!
04-11-2008, 07:14 PM
#61
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04-12-2008, 06:51 AM
#62
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There are a lot of issues raised in this thread about which people feel passionately. People for the most part were respectful in expressing their points of view. The level of civility shown says a lot about the people who are members of this community.
04-13-2008, 03:25 PM
#63
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Ouch, Didn't want to trigger a discussion bout what should and what shouldn't. It's only one of the strange things about the US u notice when u don't live there.
And just a little thing about Europe, and Belgium in perticular. Where not that unfree at all, matey. They show ***** on national tv at 6pm without polkadots and I can say motherfuck### on national radio as much as I want without the annoying beeps. But ok, useless violence isn't allowed over here.
And just a little thing about Europe, and Belgium in perticular. Where not that unfree at all, matey. They show ***** on national tv at 6pm without polkadots and I can say motherfuck### on national radio as much as I want without the annoying beeps. But ok, useless violence isn't allowed over here.
04-13-2008, 06:54 PM
#64
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But you can be put in jail for your opinions in Belgium if they don't pass politically correct muster decided by those who know what's best for everyone else; there is no freedom if the government can jail you for your thoughts (selectively enforced, of course), there is only the illusion of freedom. That's one of the strange things I have noticed about Belgium and other EU countries since I don't live there. Unfortunately, thought crimes laws are beginning to worm their way into the US as well.
By the way, violence isn't lawful here either, and never has been.
By the way, violence isn't lawful here either, and never has been.
Last edited by killer5280; 04-13-2008 at 06:56 PM.
04-14-2008, 07:32 AM
#65
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But you can be put in jail for your opinions in Belgium if they don't pass politically correct muster decided by those who know what's best for everyone else; there is no freedom if the government can jail you for your thoughts (selectively enforced, of course), there is only the illusion of freedom. That's one of the strange things I have noticed about Belgium and other EU countries since I don't live there. Unfortunately, thought crimes laws are beginning to worm their way into the US as well.
By the way, violence isn't lawful here either, and never has been.
By the way, violence isn't lawful here either, and never has been.
U can say and do about everthing overhere. The only thing that's illigal to say that pops my mind at this moment is to deny the holocaust. And even then they don't put you in jail. But u have to pay a fine.
04-14-2008, 07:43 AM
#66
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This happened to an older guy last year at a dealership in my town. About 60ish, no helmet. He had just purchased the bike, a cruiser or something and the paperwork was not finished. The salesman left the guy sitting on the bike in the parking lot and told him not to ride it until all the paperwork was set. He walked inside and the guy took off around the parking lot. He lost it, hopped up on a curb, frame slid the bike for a little ways down the curb then high sided. Clipped a snow plow with his head. 
When I went for my license, I could not believe the number of people who could not even take off without stalling the bike. They would weave and wobble. I was scared to watch.....and they wanted to go out on the road!!!!!
It annoys me that CT requires you to 1) pass a written test, 2) get your learner permit 3) go out and practice riding, and 4) within 90 days of getting your permit, you must take your riding test. Kind of ***-backwards! Here's your permit to learn how to ride on the road before we find out if you have any skill what-so-ever. Guess they figure if someone can't ride a bike, they'll probably just kill themseves and dent a car or two, as opposed to requiring people to pass a driving test BEFORE they can go out and drive a car. Sorry for the rant...just had to vent.
Back to the helmet issue. Unfortunately, I do not always wear mine. If I'm taking out the Shadow for a cruise on the back roads I won't wear one. I know I should, but at low speeds, it's just more comfortable without. But anytime I go out on my SH or on the highway it's always on.
When I went for my license, I could not believe the number of people who could not even take off without stalling the bike. They would weave and wobble. I was scared to watch.....and they wanted to go out on the road!!!!!
It annoys me that CT requires you to 1) pass a written test, 2) get your learner permit 3) go out and practice riding, and 4) within 90 days of getting your permit, you must take your riding test. Kind of ***-backwards! Here's your permit to learn how to ride on the road before we find out if you have any skill what-so-ever. Guess they figure if someone can't ride a bike, they'll probably just kill themseves and dent a car or two, as opposed to requiring people to pass a driving test BEFORE they can go out and drive a car. Sorry for the rant...just had to vent.
Back to the helmet issue. Unfortunately, I do not always wear mine. If I'm taking out the Shadow for a cruise on the back roads I won't wear one. I know I should, but at low speeds, it's just more comfortable without. But anytime I go out on my SH or on the highway it's always on.
04-14-2008, 07:47 AM
#67
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Actually the freedom of speech and freedom to express your opinions are less regulated in the legislation in most European countries than the US... Both politicaly and otherwise... So in that respect you could argue you guys have less liberty than us?
04-14-2008, 08:22 AM
#68
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The current administration has effectively suspended the writ of habeas corpus [(which in Latin means we command that you have the body) is the name of a legal action, through which a person can seek relief from unlawful detention for himself or another person] and you therefore can very defiantly be arrested in the United States for what you say in public. The fact that this action was taken should outrage Americans and yet most don’t seem to know it has been taken. How free are we in the U.S. and are we too quick to defend our government and our country when if fact the patriotic thing to do is criticize them?
The newly enacted Military Commissions Act (MCA) effectively destroys the habeas corpus guarantee for non-citizens within the United States accused of being “unlawful enemy combatants,” and undermines that guarantee for any US citizens thus designated by a “competent tribunal” appointed by, and accountable only to, the president.
The newly enacted Military Commissions Act (MCA) effectively destroys the habeas corpus guarantee for non-citizens within the United States accused of being “unlawful enemy combatants,” and undermines that guarantee for any US citizens thus designated by a “competent tribunal” appointed by, and accountable only to, the president.
Last edited by Jim TT; 04-14-2008 at 08:39 AM.
04-14-2008, 08:58 AM
#69
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With you there Jim TT.
I'm no flaming rebel or anything, but all government, by it's very nature, is a reduction of freedom. (And no, I'm not a Libertarian, or whatever.) Not saying we don't need some kind of government, or that there are not significant benefits from being under one.
I believe that the longer any government exists, the more freedom is eroded. That's the nature of politics; gathering power & control over others. This is true whether you're talking about the USA, China, ancient Rome or wherever.
I'm no flaming rebel or anything, but all government, by it's very nature, is a reduction of freedom. (And no, I'm not a Libertarian, or whatever.) Not saying we don't need some kind of government, or that there are not significant benefits from being under one.
I believe that the longer any government exists, the more freedom is eroded. That's the nature of politics; gathering power & control over others. This is true whether you're talking about the USA, China, ancient Rome or wherever.
04-14-2008, 09:48 AM
#70
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Jim, I agree with you; I'm not defending what's going on here in this country (I'm well aware of the MCA, the John Warner Defense Authorization Act which nullifies the posse comitatus act of 1878, the REAL ID act which creates a national ID system with biometric identifier, NPSD 51 in which Bush gave himself the power to declare a national emergency and take over all functions of government and business without consulting Congress, etc.), I'm just pointing out that anyone who thinks people are freer in Europe is kidding himself. As I said before, there is only the illusion of freedom when the government purports to have the power to regulate speech.
Europeans don't even have the ostensible enumerations of rights we have here in the US in the Bill of Rights. I say ostensible because everyone knows that these rights have been under attack and/or have been ignored since the inception of this country, but at least they are there on paper and can be reinstalled if and when enough people wake up from their sleep.
Silverstorm makes my point for me when he mentions holocaust denial. No matter how much one disagrees with those who deny the holocaust, fining (or jailing) those who do certainly qualifies as penalizing thought. David Irving and Ernst Zundel are two I can think of off the top of my head who have indeed been jailed for the "crime" of holocaust denial. What kinds of thoughts will be "crimes" in the future? Anthropogenic global warming denial?
L8RGYZ,
You are right that government is a reduction of freedom and that governments tend to usurp power over time. The US Constitution and Bill of Rights are strict limitations on the power of the federal government, but they're only effective when the people are vigilant and educated about the nature of freedom and government. A distracted, dumbed down populace is ripe for abuse hence we find ourselves in the situation that exists today where people blithely accept government encroachments on liberty, often without question, simply because they don't know that things aren't supposed to be that way.
Europeans don't even have the ostensible enumerations of rights we have here in the US in the Bill of Rights. I say ostensible because everyone knows that these rights have been under attack and/or have been ignored since the inception of this country, but at least they are there on paper and can be reinstalled if and when enough people wake up from their sleep.
Silverstorm makes my point for me when he mentions holocaust denial. No matter how much one disagrees with those who deny the holocaust, fining (or jailing) those who do certainly qualifies as penalizing thought. David Irving and Ernst Zundel are two I can think of off the top of my head who have indeed been jailed for the "crime" of holocaust denial. What kinds of thoughts will be "crimes" in the future? Anthropogenic global warming denial?
L8RGYZ,
You are right that government is a reduction of freedom and that governments tend to usurp power over time. The US Constitution and Bill of Rights are strict limitations on the power of the federal government, but they're only effective when the people are vigilant and educated about the nature of freedom and government. A distracted, dumbed down populace is ripe for abuse hence we find ourselves in the situation that exists today where people blithely accept government encroachments on liberty, often without question, simply because they don't know that things aren't supposed to be that way.
Last edited by killer5280; 04-14-2008 at 09:54 AM.
04-14-2008, 11:08 AM
#72
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Edit: The holocaust-deniel item is so sensative in these parts, because it happend here. My grandfather witnessed the war and the inhumanity. When someone invades not only your country but even your home, steel your belongings, murders your family in front of your eyes and leave their corpses on the streets. You cannot imagion what impact it has. Us has never been invaded, that's the difference. That's why most of the European countries are against the war in Irak. Not because we are against the American people but because we know how it feels to be occupied or at least see the remainings of it every day.
Last edited by Silverstorm; 04-14-2008 at 11:17 AM.
04-14-2008, 11:22 PM
#73
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Ouch, Didn't want to trigger a discussion bout what should and what shouldn't. It's only one of the strange things about the US u notice when u don't live there.
And just a little thing about Europe, and Belgium in perticular. Where not that unfree at all, matey. They show ***** on national tv at 6pm without polkadots and I can say motherfuck### on national radio as much as I want without the annoying beeps. But ok, useless violence isn't allowed over here.
And just a little thing about Europe, and Belgium in perticular. Where not that unfree at all, matey. They show ***** on national tv at 6pm without polkadots and I can say motherfuck### on national radio as much as I want without the annoying beeps. But ok, useless violence isn't allowed over here.
Free speech, in our case the First Amendment, protects primarily and precisely opinions about "sensitive" things like politics, culture, social policy, race, demographics, immigration etc. National Socialism and Holocaust if you wish, what's wrong with Muslims and what they are doing to western culture if you prefer.
I don't believe my American ancestors fought and won a revolution so they could use four letter words in front of school children or walk around in public with their dicks sticking out of their pants.
I don't at all approach this as America's great vs. Europe sucks. But the American concept of rights, which even too many Americans don't understand, is that you're born with them (Endowed by their Creator) and there are entire areas of human activity and expression which no government should interfere with. Like deciding what you will, or will not wear on your own head, as long as the only head at risk is your own.
It seems that in much of the rest of the world people think of "rights" as the list of things their government was nice enough to grant permission for, as opposed to something "unalienable" and part of their beingness.
Ouch or not, I enjoy the back and forth of opinion and discussing what individual liberty actually is.
Last edited by RK1; 04-14-2008 at 11:49 PM.
04-15-2008, 09:28 AM
#75
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hahah I love contraversy. hey what do you guys think of taxes while we're at it?
Driving is a privalage, not a right, you wanna drive for free (laws included) build your own damn interstate. Until then, respect the LAWS of driving on public roads.
I think thats the most important part of this discussion. Everyone's happy to drive on roads that have been built for them, but you don't want to follow the rules?
Like I said, you build an interstate, and then you can drive naked if you want. No one will complain. Unitl then, following rules on public roads protects those that use them.
Driving is a privalage, not a right, you wanna drive for free (laws included) build your own damn interstate. Until then, respect the LAWS of driving on public roads.
I think thats the most important part of this discussion. Everyone's happy to drive on roads that have been built for them, but you don't want to follow the rules?
Like I said, you build an interstate, and then you can drive naked if you want. No one will complain. Unitl then, following rules on public roads protects those that use them.
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07-26-2008 06:41 PM
