superbling

Well it didn't happen in anyway like the "funny" video I posted and even more tragic than I thought. On another forum, one member posted this second hand account. (copy/paste):

"The salesperson there is actually a friend of a friend at work. Heres what happened. The guy hasnt ridden in 20ish years. He gets his new bike, and wants to bring it home on his truck. The salesguy tells him that he'll do it, on the loading ramp they have. The guy says he wants to do it himself (and gave him the look like...its a personal thing) So the salesguy again says NO..you really should let us load the bike for you, and again the guy refuses and says that he HAS to do it himself. So now, (gear-less, helmetless) hops on, and engages the clutch...starts rolling in the direction of the new row of bikes, and instead of leaning it a little, he jerks on the bars in the opposite direction, causing his hand to roll onto the throttle instantaneously. The bike lurches violently ahead, and as he tries to correct, he ends up gassing it right into the back of a pickup truck. So there ya have it. I feel incredibly sad for his family who watched the whole ordeal from start to finish. I cant imagine what they're going through. The salesguy insisted multiple times that HE should put the bike on the truck via his ramp, but was refused. My prayers go out to him and his family, but yes...this is a billboard for ATGATT!!!!!!!! If it can happen to a guy in a parking lot, it can happen to you!!!!!"

FWIW

blackvtr

always wear a helmet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Laynout

You have to warn us about what we're about to watch! That's Brutal!

mikstr

Darwinism at work.... further proof (other than his choice of bike, lol) that those who choose not to wear a helmet have nothing to protect... I feel no more pity for this type of person than for the drunk who salms into a rock cut, maybe that makes me cold but, oh well, you reap what you sow...

RK1

I always wear a helmet, regardless of the law. It's my head. I get to decide what does or doesn't go on my own head. It's called liberty. Check it out sometime before you're living under Sharia law.

mikstr

Helmet laws exist in most Canadian provinces too and this too is a form of liberty. You see, it helps protect the taxpayers (we have a public health system) against having the liberty of paying for the injuries resulting from some dumbass riding without one... liberty is a multi-dimensional concept....

Like most of you, helmet law or not helmet law, I will not ride a bike (or snowmobile) without one.

RK1

The state forces you to wear a helmet, and the state forces you to pay for other peoples hospital costs. Neither one has the slightest ******* thing to do with liberty.

mikstr

Take a pill dude! Since when is a helmet law the sole barometer of a country's liberty? IN Europe, women can walk around topless in many countries, soemthing they can't do in the US, doees that mean that the US has no freedom? Of course not. Their advertising laws are much freer thatn in North America. So what? It just so happens that liberty and freedom extends well beyond such menial things as helmet laws.

RK1

I didn't say helmet laws were the sole barometer, and i don't mean to sound sharp or nasty, i just think we should be clear about what liberty is. And Americans have lost a great deal of the liberty they once enjoyed.

Liberty means you get to decide to wear a helmet or not, and you get to live with the consequences. Liberty means you are free to contribute (or not!) to some other dumb bastards hospital costs when he crashes without a helmet. I'm an American and Canada is none of my business, but when your government forces you to do two things (or a thousand things) instead of one thing, you are free to consider it wonderful, but not to call it 'liberty". liberty, like it or not, precludes forcing people to wear a helmet against their will, precludes forcing people to pay others hospital costs against their will.

Americans once believed in liberty, but are fast joining Canadians and Western Europeans in throwing it under the bus.

Tweety

Well the laws gowerning helmets and the laws governing the possibility of topless women might not be interchangeable...

But there is one thing that I cannot understand nor easily tolerate about many of you guys from the US... you dislike laws on principle and principle alone... and you get your panties all twisted when these discussions come up... Give me a good argument for NOT having a law on helmets and I'll galdly discuss it for ever... otherwise you will have to live with us Europeans saying you are wierd...

There are a number of laws here in EU and in Sweden that are completely bonkers in my own opinion... Don't get me started on those... But the laws governing traffic is one of the few areas that I can accept most laws... Since 99% of the other nutters out there won't listen to reason in general and just blames each other unless the laws of physics bites them in the ***, the laws needs to be there...

The purpose is to force dumbasses and loonies to co-exist with the rest of us that have atleast a semblance of self-preservation instincts...

Yes... I'm "forced" to pay for other peoples mistakes on the road... but it also works the other way if a loonie hit's me...

Wearing a lid is fundemental... you are all saying you wear it on your own without there being a law... So are you going to ride around without it if they pass a law?!
If so you deserve to be harassed by the cops... Law or no law...

Or you are telling me that with a helmet law the cops will harass you more when you are wearing one??? I find that very unlikely...

There is no law against hitting your head with a hammer either... Not many US citisens do that on a regular basis either... (and if they do they get to pay the hospital bills them selves...)

I'm not saying that EU is more enlightened than the US, not in general or in it's laws...

But disagreeing with a law that you voluntairily follow on mere principle and then go boasting about it and hitting your chest and saying it's about freedom & liberty with a very thinly veiled jab at "enlightened Europe" for having said law... that is ignorant... plain and simple...

So either come up with a valid counter argument or keep your opinions and facts separate... The US is in some cases a very good place... But it also has some major flaws that shouldn't be possible in a country with those resources... So has most European countries... But if you wan't us to speak of the US with respect... start by giving the same respect...

Tweety

BTW RK1 you last post came up inbetween my reading and posting... just to clarify...

Tweety

One other example of US laws I find very strange... In the US I would be able to legaly drive in most states after drinking the same amount that in Sweden would put me in jail for a couple of months and have my drivers license revoked on site...

That law I have no trouble agreing with here in Sweden... if you are on the roads you stay sober... It's that simple... It protects me and others in trafic...

RK1

Tweety;

I don't know the limit is Sweden. In most U.S. states (actually all now I think), the BAC limit is .08%, or about 2.5 drinks for the average person. I don't have a problem with drunk driving laws. Things you do which endanger others, and things you do which risk only your own head are entirely different things. One is society's rightful business, the other is your own business.

Tweety

.02% is DUI and .08% is above the limit for gross DUI...

And I didn't really think that you or anybody else here (US or EU citizens) would have a problem with the drunk driving laws...

Mostly people here seem to be using the inside of their heads...

Tweety

On principle yes you are partially correct... but some of the things people do that endanger themselves are interconnected with things that endanger others...

And since the average motorist is a rather self centered, self occupied bully who has problems controlling his or hers impulses laws are needed...

Altough I wasn't primarily responding to you... So I'll gladly agree to disagree on opinion...

I can also add that I on some occasions and in some situations I fully agree that the lawmakers should just mind their own busniess and leave me to make my own desicions... Good or bad... Just not when piloting a vehicle that might hurt others...

My response was mostly directed at killer5280... Altough I'm pretty sure we agree on a whole lot of things if we reason it trough you sometimes come across as the stereotype of boastfull American when referencing "Europe"... Good for you being proud ... but it doesn't mean that anybody that has a different opinion is automaticly trying to belittle you or your country...

Oh BTW before you go all flame war on here... could you wait a few hours? I'm going to sleep now, so I won't be around for the next hours... And I don't want to miss all the fun...

mikstr

I don't mean to get this discussion sidetracked but... liberty is a wonderful ideal but, like the free market, it is just that, an ideal. It must be said too that the world has changed since the Founding Fathers of the US were around. Most of the curbs on freedom (as some call it) are typically in response to abuses by some. Take for example frivoulous lawsuits, something that is driving many companies away from doing business in the US. It could be argued by some (demagogues) that Canadian laws impede one's freedom to litigate for everything under the sun but our laws put up hurdles to prevent the type of legal circus that often crops up in the US (not a coincidence that US has 5% of world population but 75% of its lawyers). Unlike some others, I consider that to be a fair trade-off.

I want to be clear that this is not meant to be a knock on the US for I have a great deal of respect for your country and its people. However, to be so limited in one's view of "freedom" is to miss the boat for Canada is AT LEAST as free a society as the US (not as much in some ways, more in others). Your freedom may be in your ability to ride around without a helmet, ours is about our media being able to report on activities in Afghanistan without having to get the green light from Cheney and co. It all comes down to picking our battles. I, for one, will glady wear a helmet for I think it is a reasonable law. When my government enacts a law that I deem unfit, I too have the right to overthrow it. We have a formal Charter of Rights and Freedoms in our Constitution (many of our "freedoms" are surely considered "liberal" by some but again, it's all about give and take...)

So, there is no such thing as the perfect state (I travel a lot and spent 4 months completing my studies in the UK). Each country/society has its pros and cons. At the end of the day, I am just very happy and consider myself very fortunate to be living in a part of the world where I can be safe, eat three square meals a day, and have the disposable income to dream about modding my motorcycle.

Anyhow, enough of this crap, and back to motorcycles.....

RK1

Here in the states .08 is DUI under the law and anything less isn't. Except- if you cause an accident with .06% (or whatever) BAC you could be sued and lose to the person who suffered a loss. And if you are underage (21) you lose your license for any measurable BAC.

.02% is pretty strict, but it is a societal judgement call. Nobody should be at "liberty" to drive impared on public roads. The only life you are ever properly at liberty to risk is your own.