nath981

I'm constantly dumbfounded by tire manufacturers, of course, it doesn't take much to fool me.hahaha.

Last 3 tires: BTO-14(180x55), BTO-16(190x50), Dunlop Q2(180x55).

1)BTO-14,(180) no chicken strips, well maybe a mm.
2)BTO-16(190x50),10mm chicken strips.
3)Dunlop Q2(180),10mm chicken strips.

I thought the 10mm strips on the 190 was the result of the steep-sided arc of putting it on a 5.5", so I took it off with only a 1000 miles on it.

And on with Q2s, and so i set out set out to break em in and get back to the no chicken strip of the 180s that's been the case since I bought the SH in 2000. I've never had chicken strips and their bothering me. Am I ****** stupid or what. So I got the 190 off and put OEM size Q2s on and put approx 1000 miles on. Guess what's still there.....10mm chicken strips. WTF! it's the beginning of the end, I'm losin it. I'm goin downhill faster than I thought, and maybe I am, but, there is a difference i wasn't expecting.

So I got these three tires sitting there, I'll take some measurements just to verify my early onset:

1)228mm=BTO-14(180)
2)235mm=BTO-16(190)
3)240mm=Q2(180)

Not only is the 180 Q2 wider that the 190 BTO-16, both have steeper arcs. i went thru a shitload of 180s with the SH over the 10 years I've had it and this is weird and something I never would have anticipated.

Now I'm wondering if anyone mounted the Power Pures and if so, could you measure? It doesn't really matter though cause they're 2lbs lighter, so whenever these are done, I'm hoping to get them.

RK1

Why put yourself through all this trouble and anguish? Just jack the rear off the ground and rub out those embarrassing strips with sandpaper or a chunk of concrete. Don't forget to rough up the pegs a bit.

ranchomice

I'm still not fully comfortable on this hawk. Being my first sportbike, I have a TON of fun on it and I have about 5/8" chicken strips on new ppc2's. Does it matter that much, as long as you're having fun?

nath981

I'll have to admit you have some pretty creative suggestions. Don't you be giving away all your secrets there RK. hahaha

i was being facetious about the chicken strips albeit I like to think I'm giving it a good shake for street riding and getting to the edge of the tires is kinda a sign that I'm as close as I want to get in this environment.

Relative to the tires I was wondering if this width/profile reformation is a new trend or something of an anomaly. For those looking for the wide look without mismatching rim/tire, this Q2 is the solution and it sticks well too. The bike is handling well with JD's modded shock(raised rear) and front to the highest point of the forks, but the raised seat height has me on the ***** of my feet, but really no different that the xr650l.

8541Hawk

Well I'm running a set and I am seeing about the same thing so far. I will say I only have about 160 miles on them and i am also dialing in the new suspension. Even with that, I have had the bike leaned over pretty hard.
Yet I do still have some strips left where as I'm pretty sure with the old Qualifiers, I would have been to the edges.

To me the seam to be kind of like the old 207s. In that to get all the way to the edge, you really had to push it down the last little bit. There was nothing wrong with it. In fact it made street riding a little easier as you know you have a little rear tire left, unless you have already pushed it out to the edge.

I'll have to run them a little longer before I get a good feel for them but that is my initial impression of them.

VTRsurfer

The Q2 has a steeper side profile than the old Qualifier. I noticed that when buying a new set for my wife's SV, and went with BT 016's. Dunlop says they designed the Q2 to give increased cornering angle.

So, I guess you'll just have to get down like Ben and Rossi to erase those chickenstrips...or just do like RK1 said.

nath981

you're right, just ride your bike to have fun and don't get carried away with trying to do anything you don't feel comfortable with on the street. Go slow to go fast. When I started riding, all we did was race each other and do all kinds of stupid **** and some of us didn't make it. All were doing is playing the probabilities because just being out there is a bit of a deathwish. Today for example, some guy coming toward me is looking down and enters my lane coming right at me at about 60mph, like a game of chicken. And a half hour later someone backing out of a parking space and almost nailed me as i just turned into that row. You can see just by this forum how many incidents there's been already and this is just a small sample of all riders.

nath981

Well that 190 BTO-16 I have has the same arc as the Q2. I bent a piece of wire(insulation hanger) to the arc of the Q2 and it fit pretty nicely over the BTO-16, but very different from the BTO-14. I know i am a little nuts about some ****, but you'll have this. hahaha

nath981

I pushed the BTO-16 190x50 to a slide a few times thinking there was more lean left and it has the same profile as the Q2, so i don't know, but I'll keep trying. Let me know what you find out after you get some more experience. So far, the Q2 seems to have a little more grip, but that's my take, informal assessment only.

nothing

you can lean further over with a 180 profile tire compared to a 190, right?

nath981

interesting question. Some informal measurements:

1)on the 180 BTO-14, I was using 225 of 228 mm.
2)on the 190x50 BTO-16, I used 205 of 235mm.
3)on the Q2 180x55, I am using 210 of 240mm so far.

So based on these numbers, I was using more tire space on the old BTO than on either of the wider tires. Don't ask me to explain this except for that the arc of the second and third tires are more steep than the flatter arc of the first tire. Someone mentioned riding higher on the tire requires less lean, but i don't really claim to understand the dynamics at play here.

jay956

your tire pressure will also play a factor in using up all of the tire.


i think there are way to many variables to generalize that.

trinc

all this talk about chicken strips on the rear... anybody check the front tire ? matched tire will usually keep things in check & usually even though the rear tires been to the edge the front still has a little room to go.

my point is: if the goal is watching the rear tire, keep in mind it's the front tire thats keeping you upright. the stock forks suck - without a rebuild tucking the front is more of a possibility at extreme lean angles than spinning up the rear... imo


tim

mhaisten

Maybe Nath is getting older and wiser, and that is what you are seeing on the tire. I used to go out and erase the chicken strips as soon as I got new set of tires. Now I run about a 5mm strip. I don't get a bunch of tickets, and have not had any near misses with guard rails lately either. It sill feels pretty fast and leaned over to me!!!

nath981

you are correct on the importance of the front tire. I had to learn this the hard way when I totaled the SH with a worn out OEM Dunlop 204 on it. what a dumbass! I was always using two rears for one front and that will not happen again for 2 reasons, increased trail braking and your point of its importance in holding the front up. I have been guilty of ignoring the front for too long. That said, for those who stay on the center of their tires probably can get away with it and save some money.

I am running matched Q2s now and have weight matched RT fork springs and JD's rear and am happy with this set up for the roads I ride. I know I can get to the edges of the tire, but it will require what i refer to as race track lean angles. I'm just amazed at the fact that the same lean angles require so much less tread width and that the Q2 is actually wider than the 190 BTO-1. I think Dunlop snuck one in on us and their competition?

nath981

older yes and that has to be viewed as a good thing, otherwise you're dead.hahaha Wiser, I'd like to think so, but so far there is little evidence to support this. 8541 Hawk noted above the same scenario in terms of wider strips on his Q2s.

Chicken strips have been for me an important part of an ongoing feedback regimen that allows me to become familiar with lean angle and how it corresponds to the feelings of traction/grip I experience each time I ride. I'm a tire nut and am always looking, feeling, pushing on them before, during and after riding.

So that's why I am focused on this and this brought me to my real questions regarding tread width. How can a 180 be a whopping 12mm wider than the average 180, and 5mm wider than a 190? And, how do these steeper arc tires, which must be the new wave in performance tires, allow equal lean angle using less amt of tread? And given that they are using less total tread, how does this affect contact patch?

nath981

http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/Dunl..._press_kit.pdf

found this info on the Q2s. doesn't give dimensions, but does describe steeper sidewalls and how is increases contact patch and improves grip at increased lean angles at higher speeds, and with better wear parameters. Sounds too good to be true, but I'll let you know.

nath981

i don't believe this ****: according to the dunlop link below, it's acceptable to mount a 190x50 or 190x55 on a 5.5"rim, at least a Q2. WTF. I thought this was wrong, but could be done, but wasn't safe because of tire distortion. Evidently, that's bullshit. The tire manufacturer isn't gonna recommend something that's not gonna fit correctly. Right?





http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/tire...ire.asp?id=108

VTRsurfer

nath,
As for the 2:1, rear to front, I did that for decades. But since I retired and I'm not commuting, mostly riding twisties and roads to get to twisties, I'm wearing my front on the sides more (however, not to the edge). By the time I'm on the 2nd rear, I find I'm not trusting the front so much. Bottom line is, I'm changing front and rear together from now on just for peace of mind and increased fun factor.

When we got the new set of BT 016's for my wife's SV, I checked a 160/60 BT 016 and 160/60 Q2, and found the Q2 to have noticeably steeper sides. That's why I opted for buying the Bridgestones, less aggressive. But of course that was tires on the rack, not mounted and aired up. Her previous set was the old Qualifiers, which had about the same profile as the Bridgestones.

nath981

+1 0n the front tire change everytime. I always figured that since it wasn't as worn as the rear, save the money and use it. No more.

on the Q2s, i emailed Dunlop and asked the questions from above. If they respond, I'll post it. I am just amazed at how wide these 180 Q2s are and a little pissed that I can't find good specs on the latest tires to compare. I think the tread width listed on dunlop site is in inches and doesn't consider the arc, just the actual width.

VTRsurfer

180 is the "section width" in millimeters when mounted on the correct size rim. Although this seems to vary somewhat, both with motorcycle and car/truck tires.

nath981

yeah, you're correct, and it's the variations I'm talking about.

My tires:

1) 180X55 BTO-14= 185mm, 5mm over 180 spec

2) 190x50 BTO16= 190mm, right on spec

3) 180x55 Dunlop Q2= 189.5mm, basically a 190 width.

So I guess it's pick a tire and wait to see what you get or do a lot of research first, because you sure as hell can go by what it says on the tire.

other Q2s:

190x50 Q2= 191.5mm, only 2mm wider than the supposed 180 Q2

190x55 Q2= 199mm. almost a 200mm

200x50 Q2= 198.6mm, slighty less than the 190x55

So according to the manufacturer, it's acceptable to put everything up to the 200x50 on a 5.5" rim even though the 200 is slightly narrower than the 190x55, and only 7mm wider than the 190x50. And then were are not even considering height, weight or tread arc or profile variations in the mix here. What a clusterfuck.