Front end swap?
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 41
From: Oakville, Ct
Front end swap?
I'm not a racer and I don't need flick of the wrist steering.... and maybe the fact that I haven't even ridden my Hawk yet would be a reason I dont have the answer to this, but why do I see so many threads on front end swaps for these bikes? Do they handle badly or are folks just making the most of Honda's parts bin?
Can someone that has done a swap tell me why and is it necessary for a street driven bike?
I'm getting older I guess and I want a machine that has a more upright position. I think my days of cracked kneecaps and sore wrists are over. Hawks are supposed to be nice general purpose bikes with fancy body work, no? Don't get me wrong, I can still tip one into a corner but I want a commuter and weekend back road dancer.
Can someone that has done a swap tell me why and is it necessary for a street driven bike?
I'm getting older I guess and I want a machine that has a more upright position. I think my days of cracked kneecaps and sore wrists are over. Hawks are supposed to be nice general purpose bikes with fancy body work, no? Don't get me wrong, I can still tip one into a corner but I want a commuter and weekend back road dancer.
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 155
From: Sudbury ON
Meierznuts,
I no sooner posted my thread on a front end swap and saw your post.
The stock front end works just fine assuming you installed new springs and valving. Everyone has their reasons for modding their bike or car, etc. I'm swapping for the simple reason that I'm using the VTR for track days only and want to upgrade to a stiffer front end and get better brakes out of the deal. The bling factor is also part of it although many others on this forum have a more severe form of that disease
I no sooner posted my thread on a front end swap and saw your post.
The stock front end works just fine assuming you installed new springs and valving. Everyone has their reasons for modding their bike or car, etc. I'm swapping for the simple reason that I'm using the VTR for track days only and want to upgrade to a stiffer front end and get better brakes out of the deal. The bling factor is also part of it although many others on this forum have a more severe form of that disease
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
I think, like you mentioned, that people are just making use of a parts bin that has a lot of options readily available. (although the people on here that have modded just about every single component would have figured out a way if it weren't)
One thing that you mentioned that shouldn't concern you much is that you can achieve the same upright geometry with a swap without too much trouble- While many people will drop their bars/clipons a bit, it isn't necessary and you can achieve a comfortable commuter bike w/a stiffer front end in a swap situation. Or get a fork brace. Or do nothing and enjoy the shawk on city streets as it was designed.
One thing that you mentioned that shouldn't concern you much is that you can achieve the same upright geometry with a swap without too much trouble- While many people will drop their bars/clipons a bit, it isn't necessary and you can achieve a comfortable commuter bike w/a stiffer front end in a swap situation. Or get a fork brace. Or do nothing and enjoy the shawk on city streets as it was designed.
Administrator
MotoGP
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,402
From: Kempner, TX
For a city ride and spirited yet not wild back road toy.. Spring and valve the OEM forks, add some good pads , SS lines to the brakes. This will get most folks where they want.
For a more upright bar position, there are aftermarket clip ons (risers) and some of us have used VFR bars to gain some bar height.
As for why MOD the front end.. Why not......
If you want better brakes, want different valving, want different springs, need to do seals and bushings, oil to freshen up the OEM front end....... A front end MOD if your into things like that is a great way to get where your going.
For a more upright bar position, there are aftermarket clip ons (risers) and some of us have used VFR bars to gain some bar height.
As for why MOD the front end.. Why not......
If you want better brakes, want different valving, want different springs, need to do seals and bushings, oil to freshen up the OEM front end....... A front end MOD if your into things like that is a great way to get where your going.
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 360
From: Florida panhandle
I ran stock forks forever with racetech springs and valves and was consistently progressing as a rider on and off the track. I started to feel the limits of the front forks and brakes and decided to change the forks instead of modding the **** out of the stock forks. I feel you only need to change the front end if you are progressing with your rider skill or you could always get another bike with better Everything!!! lol.
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
I'm not a racer and I don't need flick of the wrist steering.... and maybe the fact that I haven't even ridden my Hawk yet would be a reason I dont have the answer to this, but why do I see so many threads on front end swaps for these bikes? Do they handle badly or are folks just making the most of Honda's parts bin?
Can someone that has done a swap tell me why and is it necessary for a street driven bike?
I'm getting older I guess and I want a machine that has a more upright position. I think my days of cracked kneecaps and sore wrists are over. Hawks are supposed to be nice general purpose bikes with fancy body work, no? Don't get me wrong, I can still tip one into a corner but I want a commuter and weekend back road dancer.
Can someone that has done a swap tell me why and is it necessary for a street driven bike?
I'm getting older I guess and I want a machine that has a more upright position. I think my days of cracked kneecaps and sore wrists are over. Hawks are supposed to be nice general purpose bikes with fancy body work, no? Don't get me wrong, I can still tip one into a corner but I want a commuter and weekend back road dancer.
Easy answer... Because the front is sprung and valved for a 45Kg rider and the rear for a 90Kg rider... Makes for interesting characteristics as soon as you do anything more than look at the flowers...
The more complex answer deals with the rest of the cheap parts Honda used... Springs and valves fix the imbalance, a swap fixes all of it at once and upgrades the bike a lot...
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 41
From: Oakville, Ct
Thanks for the responces.... In American I weigh 197 but in Canadian I weigh a lot less because of the time change ;-}
So What does a guy like me have to do to get it to handle? Stiffer springs? More/less oil? Or maybe I should just ride it for a bit and see if I need to make changes LOL
So What does a guy like me have to do to get it to handle? Stiffer springs? More/less oil? Or maybe I should just ride it for a bit and see if I need to make changes LOL
Administrator
MotoGP
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,402
From: Kempner, TX
Thanks for the responces.... In American I weigh 197 but in Canadian I weigh a lot less because of the time change ;-}
So What does a guy like me have to do to get it to handle? Stiffer springs? More/less oil? Or maybe I should just ride it for a bit and see if I need to make changes LOL
So What does a guy like me have to do to get it to handle? Stiffer springs? More/less oil? Or maybe I should just ride it for a bit and see if I need to make changes LOL
The simple fix.. Correct springs, oil, and valving for the front, an aftermarket or custom rear shock.
Sure ride it stock, many do.... then come beck and tell us what it does and what you don't like about it... (hint, bet it dives hard under breaking, is harsh front and rear over big square edge bumps (for different reasons)))
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,548
From: MN
definitely ride it a bit and see what you think are its limits for how you ride. For a lot of just light sport riding and commuting its fine with minimal changes, but the rear shock is more of a problem with that kind of riding. Don't neglect the rear shock or dismiss its role in things. Sometimes its hard to sort out but the harshness at the rear really upsets the chassis over bumps or expansion joints - and those get transmitted to the front. THe whole swap just upgrades a lot of components all at once - better internals, stiffer forks, better brakes, lighter wheel, etc. So in someways its fun to do and you get a pretty big bang for buck. And in terms of what you'll notice on a highway ride, for me at least, the rear shock was the biggest improvement. So figure out what you think are the problems and go from there.
If its riding position its pretty easy to switch to superbike bars or something and fix that.
If its riding position its pretty easy to switch to superbike bars or something and fix that.
haha yeah
Squid
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 69
From: 45min SE Orlando
i found that the SH i picked up ran into a wall or something else just as unforgiving at an undetermined speed. one front fork is bent but realigned by altering the alignment so handlebars are out of alignment. yeah.. long story short. front end needs redone.
what if we like the riding position of stock shocks and clipons. maybe a little higher clipon would be best for around town.
what if we like the feel of normal riding, little loose over uneven grooves in the road (as mentioned in another post), but when you really let go, back end sags front end comes off the ground.
what determines the balance between comfort and control when, yes its a commuter, and yes i have full throttle addictions and the SH delivers!
suggestions for a 16/43 530 stock everything else. 180/55 pirelli ?
1999 SH 10k miles
what if we like the riding position of stock shocks and clipons. maybe a little higher clipon would be best for around town.
what if we like the feel of normal riding, little loose over uneven grooves in the road (as mentioned in another post), but when you really let go, back end sags front end comes off the ground.
what determines the balance between comfort and control when, yes its a commuter, and yes i have full throttle addictions and the SH delivers!
suggestions for a 16/43 530 stock everything else. 180/55 pirelli ?
1999 SH 10k miles
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,132
From: Phoenix, AZ
i found that the SH i picked up ran into a wall or something else just as unforgiving at an undetermined speed. one front fork is bent but realigned by altering the alignment so handlebars are out of alignment. yeah.. long story short. front end needs redone.
what if we like the riding position of stock shocks and clipons. maybe a little higher clipon would be best for around town.
what if we like the feel of normal riding, little loose over uneven grooves in the road (as mentioned in another post), but when you really let go, back end sags front end comes off the ground.
what determines the balance between comfort and control when, yes its a commuter, and yes i have full throttle addictions and the SH delivers!
suggestions for a 16/43 530 stock everything else. 180/55 pirelli ?
1999 SH 10k miles
what if we like the riding position of stock shocks and clipons. maybe a little higher clipon would be best for around town.
what if we like the feel of normal riding, little loose over uneven grooves in the road (as mentioned in another post), but when you really let go, back end sags front end comes off the ground.
what determines the balance between comfort and control when, yes its a commuter, and yes i have full throttle addictions and the SH delivers!
suggestions for a 16/43 530 stock everything else. 180/55 pirelli ?
1999 SH 10k miles
I am not sure what I am reading here.
haha yeah
Squid
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 69
From: 45min SE Orlando
do i really need to use punctuation
____
Ich fand, dass die SH-i abgeholt lief in eine Wand oder etwas anderes ebenso gnadenlos auf unbestimmte Geschwindigkeit. eine vordere Gabel verbogen ist aber durch die Veränderung der Ausrichtung neu ausgerichtet, damit Lenker aus sind der Angleichung. yeah .. lange Geschichte kurz. Front-End muss erneuert.
was, wenn wir die Sitzposition auf Lager Schocks und clipons dergleichen. vielleicht ein wenig höher ClipOn wäre am besten für die Stadt.
was, wenn wir das Gefühl von normalen Reiten, wenig locker über unebene Rillen in der Straße (wie in einem anderen Beitrag erwähnt) wie, aber wenn man wirklich loslassen, Back-End sackt Frontend kommt aus dem Boden.
Was bestimmt die Balance zwischen Komfort und Kontrolle, wenn, ja es ist ein Pendler, und ja, ich habe Vollgas Süchte und der SH liefert!
____
Ich fand, dass die SH-i abgeholt lief in eine Wand oder etwas anderes ebenso gnadenlos auf unbestimmte Geschwindigkeit. eine vordere Gabel verbogen ist aber durch die Veränderung der Ausrichtung neu ausgerichtet, damit Lenker aus sind der Angleichung. yeah .. lange Geschichte kurz. Front-End muss erneuert.
was, wenn wir die Sitzposition auf Lager Schocks und clipons dergleichen. vielleicht ein wenig höher ClipOn wäre am besten für die Stadt.
was, wenn wir das Gefühl von normalen Reiten, wenig locker über unebene Rillen in der Straße (wie in einem anderen Beitrag erwähnt) wie, aber wenn man wirklich loslassen, Back-End sackt Frontend kommt aus dem Boden.
Was bestimmt die Balance zwischen Komfort und Kontrolle, wenn, ja es ist ein Pendler, und ja, ich habe Vollgas Süchte und der SH liefert!
Last edited by intoxxx; Apr 9, 2011 at 09:00 AM.
Administrator
MotoGP
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,402
From: Kempner, TX
do i really need to use punctuation
____
Ich fand, dass die SH-i abgeholt lief in eine Wand oder etwas anderes ebenso gnadenlos auf unbestimmte Geschwindigkeit. eine vordere Gabel verbogen ist aber durch die Veränderung der Ausrichtung neu ausgerichtet, damit Lenker aus sind der Angleichung. yeah .. lange Geschichte kurz. Front-End muss erneuert.
was, wenn wir die Sitzposition auf Lager Schocks und clipons dergleichen. vielleicht ein wenig höher ClipOn wäre am besten für die Stadt.
was, wenn wir das Gefühl von normalen Reiten, wenig locker über unebene Rillen in der Straße (wie in einem anderen Beitrag erwähnt) wie, aber wenn man wirklich loslassen, Back-End sackt Frontend kommt aus dem Boden.
Was bestimmt die Balance zwischen Komfort und Kontrolle, wenn, ja es ist ein Pendler, und ja, ich habe Vollgas Süchte und der SH liefert!
____
Ich fand, dass die SH-i abgeholt lief in eine Wand oder etwas anderes ebenso gnadenlos auf unbestimmte Geschwindigkeit. eine vordere Gabel verbogen ist aber durch die Veränderung der Ausrichtung neu ausgerichtet, damit Lenker aus sind der Angleichung. yeah .. lange Geschichte kurz. Front-End muss erneuert.
was, wenn wir die Sitzposition auf Lager Schocks und clipons dergleichen. vielleicht ein wenig höher ClipOn wäre am besten für die Stadt.
was, wenn wir das Gefühl von normalen Reiten, wenig locker über unebene Rillen in der Straße (wie in einem anderen Beitrag erwähnt) wie, aber wenn man wirklich loslassen, Back-End sackt Frontend kommt aus dem Boden.
Was bestimmt die Balance zwischen Komfort und Kontrolle, wenn, ja es ist ein Pendler, und ja, ich habe Vollgas Süchte und der SH liefert!
But based on your follow up post... I think you can **** off and find someplace or someone else to answer your silliness. 
Best of luck
see face
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Actually, your sentences are equally screwed up in the german version, and while i fully understand both, neither are correct usage of the respective language...
So yeah, you really need to work on your grammar, and punctuation...
Care to try a third language? I'm fairly certain I'll still be able to correct your language...
So yeah, you really need to work on your grammar, and punctuation...
Care to try a third language? I'm fairly certain I'll still be able to correct your language...
haha yeah
Squid
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 69
From: 45min SE Orlando
save ignorance for a good cause =\
and delete up to include my post #11
> "what determines the balance between comfort and control"? <
was the question.. in italicize
google translation pasted auf deutsch tweety. be ignorant to them.
AND SMILE! LIVE LONGER!
and delete up to include my post #11
> "what determines the balance between comfort and control"? <
was the question.. in italicize
google translation pasted auf deutsch tweety. be ignorant to them.
Actually, your sentences are equally screwed up in the german version, and while i fully understand both, neither are correct usage of the respective language...
So yeah, you really need to work on your grammar, and punctuation...
Care to try a third language? I'm fairly certain I'll still be able to correct your language...
So yeah, you really need to work on your grammar, and punctuation...
Care to try a third language? I'm fairly certain I'll still be able to correct your language...
AND SMILE! LIVE LONGER!
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
And don't worry... I'm smiling... But dude, your english is beyond terrible... It's hard to understand you...To answer the question, if I understood it correctly... (In english, since my technical descriptions in italian will be crap, it wasn't really why I learned that language...
)The line between comfort and control doesn't need to be set in stone, you can get both quite easily with a front end swap... With a stock fork you can get neither really... The comfort is half decent, the control is crappy...
Swapping in a new front means that you get correct springs for your weight (or you put that in) and you also get adjustments that the stock fork is lacking... And they actually make a difference... Plus the stock fork flexes, the USD forks doesn't flex... So better control...
But it doesn't sacrifice comfort, since harder springs doesn't deteriorate comfort if set up properly...
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