Dilemma - what should I do?
12-14-2006, 02:40 PM
#1
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Squid
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Planet Kansas
Posts: 45
Dilemma - what should I do?
I've been in the process of trying to rebuild a wrecked '98 chicken for street and track duty. Got a new front end, new motor, new plastics, etc. Problem is the frame is cracked and tweaked. The front/head of the frame is ok, but back where the subframe attaches and rear motor mount area is off. Oh, I have a clear title on it, too.
I guess I could...
1. Send it to the frameman to get fixed. Don't know how much $ this is, or even if they could fix it.
2. Part it all out and try to recover some of my investment - sounds like a PITA
3. Buy a used frame - anyone have one for sale?
4. Push it off a cliff
What do you guys think? Keep in mind I'm a cheap bastage.
Could a person put a VTR engine into a RC51 frame/swingarm? I see RC frames advertised a lot more than vtr frames, and pretty cheap.
I guess I could...
1. Send it to the frameman to get fixed. Don't know how much $ this is, or even if they could fix it.
2. Part it all out and try to recover some of my investment - sounds like a PITA
3. Buy a used frame - anyone have one for sale?
4. Push it off a cliff
What do you guys think? Keep in mind I'm a cheap bastage.
Could a person put a VTR engine into a RC51 frame/swingarm? I see RC frames advertised a lot more than vtr frames, and pretty cheap.
12-14-2006, 03:47 PM
#2
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Superstock
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Western NY
Posts: 347
for the money you'll spend on a good frame with a clear title, might be better off with GMD or the other place you referenced to straighten it out for you. Another point to consider is the fact that any frame you buy used will have no guarantee of being straight anyway. Getting it GMD'd sets the mind at ease.
12-14-2006, 04:23 PM
#3
evil man of nothing
MotoGP
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 4,484
VTRDarren has it right...I bought a "perfect" clean title frame for that same "dream project" cause the price was right and while it DOES look brand new I eventually found a hairline crack, which I know is a weak point anyway, at the steering head and who knows if it's slightly tweaked too. The local guy by me at Computrack really sounded like he knew his stuff, and went way over my head after a few minutes. They do need a complete bike however. They can't/won't do a bare frame. It's $150 to get it checked, and then I guess the sky's the limit depending on what's needed. Even lots of brand new bikes are out of alignment slightly, and he said I'd be surprised what they're able to fix. It's not cheap but I think it's worth the piece of mind, and I'm going to bring mine there when I'm done with my front end swap. I've ridden it around the block but will feel much better about riding it harder once I have it checked out. In addition to race bikes of course, he said they do customs too (he had a Bandit with SSS, R1 front end etc..) and he said anybody can bolt one together but they actually make the bike handle safely and properly.
12-14-2006, 04:39 PM
#4
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SuperBike
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
Posts: 1,689
Aye.
Good project gone bad!
You bought a bike. Replaced the engine, front end, bodywork and now it needs a frame?
Sounds to me like time to cut and run far, far away.
Then after the smoke clears, buy a good one.
Treat it like you had a wreck without getting hurt!
The parts all have value. Sell them to cut your losses.
That's my $.02
Good project gone bad!
You bought a bike. Replaced the engine, front end, bodywork and now it needs a frame?
Sounds to me like time to cut and run far, far away.
Then after the smoke clears, buy a good one.
Treat it like you had a wreck without getting hurt!
The parts all have value. Sell them to cut your losses.
That's my $.02
12-14-2006, 05:07 PM
#5
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MotoGP
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Location: Austin, Tx
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RC, I know you have been around the block with these machines but I gotta throw my .02 in with the Captain. You can't sell the whole engine to a Superhawk. I know, I know, but for $50 bucks and freight it can be a paper weight. That can be our little joke. A good running engine is worth a lot but, then again, go find it. Know what I mean? The front end would probably go just fine but parting out the rest of the bike is a major PITA. I think you would sit on a lot of stock parts for a very long time before anyone would be terribly interested because serious Superhawk owners and drivers are more interested in stepping up from stock equipment. How did you come out cleaning out your garage? I'll bet you can take your favorite girl out to a nice dinner and that's about it. Regaining the floor space and shelf space was probably the valuable part of the sale. I would spend the $150 on testing and then listen to the bad news. If it's realllllly bad then I might reconsider.
12-14-2006, 05:39 PM
#6
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SuperBike
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Put it together. Take some pictures. Get it insured. Leave it in front of the house with the key in it. 
I had lots of special parts, so I did ok after the insurance payment, less the buyback price. But hardly worth the time and effort. I just hadn't said goodbye yet. We'd been through a lot togeher.
Can you tell I'm back in Houston, sitting in my Hotel room?
I had lots of special parts, so I did ok after the insurance payment, less the buyback price. But hardly worth the time and effort. I just hadn't said goodbye yet. We'd been through a lot togeher.
Can you tell I'm back in Houston, sitting in my Hotel room?
12-14-2006, 06:20 PM
#8
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Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Planet Kansas
Posts: 45
Well, computrak is out since they need a complete bike. I had a welding instructor look at it and he said he could weld it no problem - once I got it all straight. I guess I'll give "the frame man" a call and see what they say.
Captain - what are you going to do with your cracked frame?
Likin the leave the key in it idea
Good news is I have another '98 chicken in perfect condition, just wanted to bring this one back to life. I've never parted a bike before, it kinda goes against the grain - I like to get em back on the road. I'm hopin this thing doesn't wind up as just a heap of parts on flebay
Captain - what are you going to do with your cracked frame?
Likin the leave the key in it idea
Good news is I have another '98 chicken in perfect condition, just wanted to bring this one back to life. I've never parted a bike before, it kinda goes against the grain - I like to get em back on the road. I'm hopin this thing doesn't wind up as just a heap of parts on flebay
12-14-2006, 07:21 PM
#9
evil man of nothing
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Location: Boynton Beach, FL
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THATS a good question Like I said it really does look mint. It'll need a simple weld for the hairline crack (which by the way the guy who sold it to me claimed he never saw), and I think it should be computracked after a build. I guess since a nice clean one with a clean title (this one's Colorado) aren't that easy to find I wanted to keep it for when I fell across one of those certificate of destruction bikes I'm waiting to show up locally. You know the ones that are in real nice shape that ding the frame or something and get an insurance payoff and basically give them away...well maybe in my dreams...or right after I sell the frame...
I guess I may possibly end up getting rid of it but it would be really nice once I get some life stuff organized to get a track bike going so I can join Mike at some Florida trackdays and learn something. I think the last one I saw on ebay that was supposedly "perfect" with a clean title went for @$600. Moto Connection in Miami wants like $1k for one with just a bill of sale LOL! There's one on ebay right now for $500 with a salvage title and also needing a weld.
Like I said it really does look mint. It'll need a simple weld for the hairline crack (which by the way the guy who sold it to me claimed he never saw), and I think it should be computracked after a build. I guess since a nice clean one with a clean title (this one's Colorado) aren't that easy to find I wanted to keep it for when I fell across one of those certificate of destruction bikes I'm waiting to show up locally. You know the ones that are in real nice shape that ding the frame or something and get an insurance payoff and basically give them away...well maybe in my dreams...or right after I sell the frame...I guess I may possibly end up getting rid of it but it would be really nice once I get some life stuff organized to get a track bike going so I can join Mike at some Florida trackdays and learn something. I think the last one I saw on ebay that was supposedly "perfect" with a clean title went for @$600. Moto Connection in Miami wants like $1k for one with just a bill of sale LOL! There's one on ebay right now for $500 with a salvage title and also needing a weld.
12-14-2006, 07:34 PM
#11
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SuperBike
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
Posts: 1,689
With all you have invested, you are almost there. I saw a good frame go for $225 on ebay. (TM), (R) (Reg US Pat. Off). I think it was good...
I bought my '00 bike with 320 miles and "minor cosmetic damage" in '01 for $5k. I had to get in the seller's face with the threat of negative feedback (Hooray for ebay). He ended up replacing all of the parts he hadn't mentioned as damaged with new parts. (clutch basket, turn signals, rear brake lever, rear tire, dead Kawasaki battery, They had replaced the clutch cover, but failed to mention the 3 fingers missing from the clutch basket that I found in the oil pan with a bunch of rocks.
Then I discovered more damage, but all repairable (bent forks, exhaust hanger, rear set).
Beware buying a crashed bike.
My bike was really good by the time I crashed it. But you could never look at it from a financiall standpoint and call it a "wise investment".
Such is the nature of passion, I suppose.
I bought my '00 bike with 320 miles and "minor cosmetic damage" in '01 for $5k. I had to get in the seller's face with the threat of negative feedback (Hooray for ebay). He ended up replacing all of the parts he hadn't mentioned as damaged with new parts. (clutch basket, turn signals, rear brake lever, rear tire, dead Kawasaki battery, They had replaced the clutch cover, but failed to mention the 3 fingers missing from the clutch basket that I found in the oil pan with a bunch of rocks.
Then I discovered more damage, but all repairable (bent forks, exhaust hanger, rear set).
Beware buying a crashed bike.
My bike was really good by the time I crashed it. But you could never look at it from a financiall standpoint and call it a "wise investment".
Such is the nature of passion, I suppose.
12-14-2006, 09:02 PM
#12
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Superstock
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston,Tx
Posts: 267
I know the feeling of finding a crack in the frame, I fliped mine over the front. Replaced eveything I found broken. Drove it to Austin for the ROT rally . Got home and found a crack in the frame at the factory weld of the top frame spar. Then a couple of days later when I was running the engine it shut down on me. When I took the front head off the piston was cocked in there like it tilted over a bit and the rings were screwwed. took it apart some more and found that the wrist pin was shifted to one side. After financial mayhem I still don't have it done , but not too long off for this one.
12-14-2006, 10:10 PM
#13
Junior Member
Squid
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7
I'm in kindof the same boat. I just bought a bunch of parts to repair my SH, knowing it was a major project. I knew the frame was cracked by the headstock, and planned to weld it. Well, when I gathered up the frame to take to work to weld (after rebuilding the gearbox and buying forks, after two years of parts sitting around) I noticed that the rear engine mount bolt was bent. Like, the hit was hard enough to bend the 12mm bolt on either side of the engine case. (forks busted, swingarm twisted, shock link cracked, link-mounts on motor bent, broken rear wheel, etc, etc.)
So... I welded up the crack anyway, and checked that 12mm shafts would fit through the frame and cases. They do, with a little persuasion at the rear.
So my frame is tweaked a bit, but I've already spent time and money. I'm going to finish the bike. I'll measure that the swingarm pivot is square with the headstock. If it's twisted, I'll probably try to twist it back. I'm lucky enough to work at a shop with a chassis table (vintage car restoration).
I would suggest that you finish the bike and then take it to computrack or another frame shop to check the alignment. It may be that they say it's bent and they give you a ridiculous estimate to fix it. But the way the SH is constructed, your frame could be straight and only the swingarm twisted. Or vice-versa. Spend the least you can to make it a roller chassis, then check it. If it's bent, and you can find a reputable shop, they should be able to tweak it back to straight, or at least tell you what to replace. It's either the frame, swingarm, or triples. Most likely the swingarm. Frames sell for stupid money on eBay. I would not buy one used. Fix it or scrap it.
Good luck,
Greg
So... I welded up the crack anyway, and checked that 12mm shafts would fit through the frame and cases. They do, with a little persuasion at the rear.
So my frame is tweaked a bit, but I've already spent time and money. I'm going to finish the bike. I'll measure that the swingarm pivot is square with the headstock. If it's twisted, I'll probably try to twist it back. I'm lucky enough to work at a shop with a chassis table (vintage car restoration).
I would suggest that you finish the bike and then take it to computrack or another frame shop to check the alignment. It may be that they say it's bent and they give you a ridiculous estimate to fix it. But the way the SH is constructed, your frame could be straight and only the swingarm twisted. Or vice-versa. Spend the least you can to make it a roller chassis, then check it. If it's bent, and you can find a reputable shop, they should be able to tweak it back to straight, or at least tell you what to replace. It's either the frame, swingarm, or triples. Most likely the swingarm. Frames sell for stupid money on eBay. I would not buy one used. Fix it or scrap it.
Good luck,
Greg
12-15-2006, 07:46 AM
#14
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Squid
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Planet Kansas
Posts: 45
Greg - my frame is tweaked just like yours in that the rear engine mount bolt was bent on the right side. It was a bugger to get out, finally had to hacksaw it into 3 pieces. Looking at the rear cross member of the frame that joins the two cast pieces and where the shock mounts, it is not square with the world. As far as I can tell, the front half of the frame is kosher. And with a little persuasion, I can get a steel rod through the engine and rear frame mounts.
I think you're right with the fix it or scrap it idea. I'll keep everyone posted.
I think you're right with the fix it or scrap it idea. I'll keep everyone posted.
12-15-2006, 09:00 AM
#15
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
Posts: 1,689
From your description I would look for a collapsed piston skirt or bent connecting rod.
I wouldn't put it back together without some precision measurements.
good luck.
Rand
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